Exactly. What jesterjogger said. Damn it all, anyway.

Land use disputes will continue to increase as the price of gold rises. That's because these disputes are always about the same thing: money. They might wrap themselves in the flag of other causes, but in reality, it's about money and who wants a piece of the pie.

Don't you just love the bull shit out of the World Bank that mineral exploitation "breaks the cycle of poverty."

On a local note, could anyone tell me why after more than a century of full on resource exploitation in BC, a majority of it's indigenous people still live at third world poverty levels?

Jesterjogger and BC Mary have it right.

They Call It Democracy - Bruce Coburn

"Padded with power here they come
International loan sharks backed by guns
Of market hungry military profiteers
Whose word is a swamp and whose brow is smeared,
With the blood of the poor.

Who rob life of its quality
Who render rage a necessity
By turning countries into labour camps
Modern slavers in drag as champions of freedom
Sinister cynical instrument
Who makes the gun into a sacrament
The only response to the deification
Of tyranny by so-called "developed" nations'
Idolatry of ideology
North, south, east, west
Kill the best and buy the rest
It's just spend a buck to make a buck
You don't really give a flying ****
About the people in misery.

IMF dirty MF
Takes away everything it can get
Always making certain that there's one thing left
Keep them on the hook with insupportable debt.

I see the paid-off local bottom feeders
Passing themselves off as leaders
Kiss the ladies, shake hands with the fellows
And it's open for business like a cheap bordello
And they call it democracy

You see the loaded eyes of the children too
Trying to make the best of it the way kids do
One day you're going to rise from your habitual feast
To find yourself staring down the throat of the beast
They call the revolution."

Today the online main topic in "La Prensa Libre" (from Guatemala)is the that the same World Bank affirms that under the table monetary deals is a common ocurrence among the government, private companies,and members of the elite to give green light to any kind of project that means money for a few and disgrace for poor people. If there is gold there, it is amazing the way that corporations and even "la burocracia dorada" of the World Bank do the PR trying to convince us that poor people are going to be better off with this kind of deals. The only way for guatemalan people is to get organized at the grassroots level (like in that wonderful place of Sipacapa, San Marcos)and really become a stakeholder with a direct, decisive, and militant voice in the future use of their land.

I have some news for my leftie friends; if you do not allow rescource development here, it will happen in a third world country where the ruling elite does not give a shit about either the enviroment or their own people. You can be sure of this.

Why? Because all of us reading and posting here are consumers of said rescources. They have to come from somewhere.

barrioabajo, do you see the mindset of my friend Working Man, above?

That is the mentality all people of the lands must overcome, must resist completely.

Solidarity my friend. We are not all consumers in Canada even though our ugly side is certainly rearing it's head right now both above and in the company seeking to exploit your lands.

The land belongs to the Guatemalan people. Resist. Demand gurantees of employment and royalties as the very least.

Ignore crude threats such as those above.

Really? Do you consume water, air food? Do you consume electricity (that you used to write your post), glass, metal and plastic that made the computer you wrote it on? Did you know that there is gold in the mainboard?

Did you ride a bus, powered by oil and containing a myrid of metals and plastics today?

What about your residence? Does it contain any consumables? How about those wood walls? Where did they come from? The glass windows and metal sashes? Did Santa Claus bring me? Did Scotty use the transporter to make them?

We all consume, buddy. Anyone why says they don't is a hypocrite. You know nothing about the third world since you have never been there.

And allan, you completely missed my point. Read my fist post; It is better that we exploit our own rescources in an environmentally friendly way than to block development in our own back yard. Why? Because there is a demand for consumables. You and I use them every day. If we don't mine here in Canada the mining will be done at a huge environmental and social cost in third world cesspits where the ruling elite could not care less about the welfare of the people living there.

Careful, my friend, the third world is but a poor first nations reserve away.

Yes, I consume, I have a right to consume, especially in a nation that has massive surpluses from natural resources as Canada does.

Perhaps are you from the school that thinks marginal royalties and eventual responsibility for environmental nightmares created in the process, is sufficient compensation for the exploitation of lands and labour. I don't.

BTW, I've got a great big chissle and some granite so I figure I'm in writing material for eons, but thank you for asking.

Now, as far my consumer habits are concerned, let me clarify. Yes, I drink water just like my first recognizable ancestor also did without asking for anyone's permission.

Yes I breath air (freely), but with increasing concern over its content, and yes, I have my own vegetable garden.

Toilet paper and a ....load full of other dull, but sorta needy things are pretty high on the agenda also, especially if your a couple.

But why shouldn't the people who live in the region of Guatemala where the proposed mine is located not have more say?

We demand no less as citizens in British Columbian. Where is the balance here or are you unable to get past the simple "economics" of it?

WM, just saw your last posting, but I'm not impressed. It's basically an acknowledgement and nothing else, of the conditions faced by natives and others in much of the world when royalties and other government agreements are worked out.

Better to fight exploitation everywhere than to try to reap short term gains by allowing your fellow workers to be scewed, no matter where he or she lives, in my eyes.

Maybe we need the system that moves fair trade coffee into Canada to expand to include all consumer products.

It might require the employment of compliance overseers, but it could effectively stamp out the sweat shop and many other unnecessary and unwanted entities.

Think of it. Consumers in control with "compliance overseers" ( I love it) offering strong hints about the need for decent wages and benefits so society doesn't subsidize the operations.

Come to think of it, the police could easily assume theresponsibility of offering real protection to consumers and retailers at the same time.

Sorry, I'm off topic and of need to refill my wine glass.

Great to see this story come out in the town where Glamis flies its flag of convenience. Jamie Kneen does a fantastic job at miningwatch, serving as a resource for all mining issues at home and abroad. Also, Friends of the Earth Canada has a program monitoring Canadian mining practices in Guatemala.

dream on, allan. how old are you anyway?

And allan, I suppose you can be one of the overseers, right. All very idealistic and non-sensical.

I do note that, despite your denials, you are consuming, namely alcohol. Would it not be better to deny the fascist lacky western imperialist governments the tax revenue you supplied them when you bought it and directly fund class struggle?

Furhter, would not those grapes have not been better used as a food scource?

We're not consuming anything, only convert resources into other forms and pollution.

The word "consumer" is a propaganda buzzword to divert attention from physical realities and give people a false sense of well being in the race to the bottom.

If the human race wants to survive, it has to develop economic systems that will still give ALL people good standards of life, but cut back on the huge waste going on today in the name of "globalized wealth creation", that fills the pockets of a few and destroys lives and the environment.

Does the world need more gold for real human needs and purposes?

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

Well I had the opportunity to work briefly with my brother on a mining exploration job in Venezuela in 94. The worst mining practices were being done by the locals using Hydraulic mining techniques and mercury extraction methods. Both were technically illegal, but it was government employee that were supplying most of the equipment to the illegal miners. I remember talking to the local mechanic, I pointed out that perhaps dumping the oil from the generators into the dirt near the camps drinking water supply was not the best idea. He shrugged and said it was to much work to get rid of it properly. A lot of the problems down there are homegrown.

The Canadian companies were the only ones following the various laws, as it was cheaper to do so than suffer a “visit” from the local police chief. Also got to work with the locals fairly closely. These guys would show up to work in the jungle in bedroom slippers. My brother asked for 10 workers, 20 showed up, he ended up hiring them all. I will give credit to these guys, they worked hard and were happy to have a job. When we went to visit his crew chief, he was with his kids, busy fixing up their one room schoolhouse the miners had built. They were so proud of it and showed us the school. We ended up giving them some supplies for it.

Gold there was easy to find and it was what the poor used for tooth fillings.

Properly done, mining and forestry can help the local communities, improperly done it can be a curse.

Ed, gold is very important to most people in the third world, even the jewellery serves multiple purposes and as a mobile cash reserve for hard times.

Perhaps someone will correct me but, I recall reading of similar exploitation by a Canadian mining company that had operations in Jamaica and departed leaving an awful moonscape of a mess. Was it Bauxite? Anyhow, something to do with aluminum.

Reportedly, as I recall, the Jamaicans (other than the deal-makers) got little, if anything, from the mine's presence except an awful mess to repair.

You are correct, there was a company mining Bautix (spelling?) a component used in the production of aluminium, so it is likely a subsidiary of Alcan.

I know my parents went there in the 70’s and it was one of the few places where Canadian’s where hated, because of the mine.

There's a Canadian gold mining compan operating in the Transylvanian, former Hungarian part of Romania. I'm enclosing an article on their activities. Now they want to destroy a thousand year old town to ghet the gold out from under. With Romanian government approval, or course.
Ed Deak.
===========================================

Subject: The real price of gold

Just such a leak in Romania in 2000 led to the worst environmental disaster in the region since the meltdown of the nuclear reactor at Chernobyl. Tons of cyanide-laced water broke through a dam and poured into the Tisza and Danube rivers from the Aural gold mine near Baia Mare. The results were devastating; more than 1,000 tons of fish were killed, while plantlife and birds along the river were devastated.

The Tisza disaster has been replicated at mines all over the world. In the five years since the Baia Mare accident, mines owned by international corporations have been responsible for spills in Ghana, Western Australia, Papua New Guinea, China, Honduras and Nicaragua. During that time the UN Environment Programme has been locked in negotiations with the mining industry to produce a self-regulatory code.

October 26, 2005
The real price of gold
The lust for gold has reached record levels worldwide.But the world's remaining gold deposits are microscopic and the environmental costs of extracting them are profound.

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article322 **********************************************

You seem a bit worked up Working Man.

It seems when anyone even hints of stepping outside the box you call your understanding of how life ought to proceed, you start getting a bit anal and turn to insults.

Just to clarify a point. Wine has been seen as a food or nutrient source for eons.

There never really was a need for government taxes until the capitalists began manipulating what had been simple and fair exchanges of goods and services.

I just wish you would be clearer yourself and instead of repeatedly referring to consumers consuming as proof we have all been corrupted by the lure of a greenback, you would admit you mean profiteers profiting.

You are peering out at the world through the wrong end of the looking glass, I'm afraid.

Allan
The desire of governments to impose taxes goes as far back as written history as does attempts by people to evade them. I was surprised when reading about sailing ship design how much the avoidance of paying tonnage taxes influenced ship building in the 16th century.

I assume you don’t mean that we move back to a subsistence level again.

Well actually Colin, I'm certainly not recommending that, but as my winter melts away up here in the hurtlands, I do wonder at times if we are going to be capable of not moving back to a subsistance level.

And when you put it in that context, look around and I think you'll notice much of the world has yet to rise above that level yet and others are being bombed back into it.

So "again" may be over stating the issue for many.

I will certainly concede that many people are living at that level. I know I certainly am in no hurry to live at that level and you are right, most people would not be able to make the shift. I meet people here in the city who have never really made the connection between the meat on their table and the cattle on the ranges. One waitress didn’t even know that Bacon came from pigs, sigh…..

This is why I intend to send my daughter up to my cousin ranches to help out when she is old enough so she can see how the food chain works (actually right near Ed’s place, small world eh?)

You are also right that the bombing by the Sudanese military has driven most of the people in the Darfur region from the poor to the absolute destitute level. To bad the world doesn’t really give a damm about them. Now they are worried about the “Lord’s Resistance Army” going after the refuges and aidworkers. The LRA is one real bad bunch.

Google "Pascua-Lame" or Lami - and you will see another Canadian company (Barrick Gold) starting to wreac havoc in northern Chile, on the border with Argentina. Between greed and corruption...And then our attitude: what do those uneducated peasants know anyhow. Just promise them anything and then give them the finger. And we Northerners can't understand when the Southerners don't like us gringos? The rape of Latin America started with the arrival of Columbus - and it hasn't stopped yet.

Good plan for your young one Colin, but even planting a garden and getting the kids involved in at least eating the produce can be an amazing experience for some, as common place as you or I might relegate it to.

Maybe your daughter could also get some part time work over at Ed's place as he seems filled with the type if curiosity and wisdom required to pass on some secrets about organic farming and staying young.

Vera, thank you and you can rest assured they aren't celebrating the 'Year of the Gringo' in South American right now.

Colin's daughter is most welcome, as we know where she would be staying. Good, hard working people.

Don't tell anyone, but the brain behind our organic garden etc, is my wife. I'm just the unpaid hired hand who does what she tells me to do. Which could also be a good lesson for a young girl.

Ed .

My friend’s daughter grew some peas in her flower box and was “selling” them to us for 25 cents a pod. She was horrified when I popped the pod open and ate the peas. She hadn’t connected the peas she was growing with the ones in the store. Plus she wanted me to give them back so she could “sell” them to someone else. She learned a couple of lessons that day, but the look on her face was priceless.

A Merry Christmas to you and happiness to your families.

Ed, you are right about the hard work part, they never cease to amaze me with what they do and how they do it.

I grew up in a time when we were virtually self sufficient - we had to be, total income in 1931 was $200. We may see those days again as we continue to destroy our own environment.

We seem to have lost Ron Erwin and picked up Working Man. A fair trade I suppose.

Ken McKee, Salmon Arm. Hi Vera! I have one of your buttons but it got in the wash by mistake and the colour ran.

My heart goes out to the Mayan people, but I wonder what they can accomplish by coming to B.C.

I live in the Gulf Islands, supposedly protected by the Islands Trust and have seen people sold property in residential neighborhoods and then the party that sold it to them without any pre disclosing his intent or divulging any existing permits, starts mining and processing gravel right next door. Making their very expensive properties worthless.

This occurs with the blessing of our provincial gov't right while the Islands Trust and CRD vigilantly looks the other way and does not enoforce existing soil removal bylaws.

Colin made the good point that "properly done, mining and forestry can help the local communitys".

These activities are not being properly done in the much lauded Preserve and Protect Areas of the Islands Trust of British Columbia. I wonder where, if anyplace, they are.

We've tryied to block many, many types of injustise's in this world and the only conclusion I come to is to stop our need to buy, Consumerisium is the only way these Corporations survive.
Who says we have buy cards birthday, Valentine, Christmas gifts, St. Patrick's, gifts & on & on etc.
I think we can live without Christmas's new big-ticket items? Sam Sung who are they?
If we stopped buying for one or two weeks @ one time even 2 days we can make most of these corporations at least listen to us especially big oil if we didn't drive!
All the heads of these corporations should be brought up a on terrorism and murder charges!
Vancouver-registered Glamis Gold get out of Guatemala

'Fraid to say gold stocks have been among the best investments of the last few years, and may be among the few sectors likely to do well as N. American economies slow, which could occur in '06.

One does not have to buy Glamis, and one need not be an advocate for unethical behaviour in order to be an investor.

In fact, you can do what Greenpeace has done with Forestry stocks: Buy shares which then entitle you to attend the Annual General Meeting and advocate for improved co. practises.

It's been said that buying a company's products (in this case gold) does more to support the company than buying shares does. Because profit from sale of a product goes straight to the co's bottom line.

Fiat lux,

Did that. Got this:

Search Results
You searched for: environment article 322
Displaying 1 - 25 of 500
Result Page : 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20

Am none the wiser. Suggest you might copy and paste title of article and/or salient points you referred to. Looks like an interesting link to add to favorites - The Independent, that is. Thanks