Telus is publicaly traded. In otherwords there are shareholders who expect Telus to continue to make a profit. They are publically funded. No money comes from taxpayers to support heir business. I don't recall hearing an outcry when Cisco or Nortel lat off thousands of employees in order to demonstrate to their shareholders that they are striving to meet a bottom line profit.
Soon consumers will be able to get all three services ( TV, telephone and internet ) from both Telus ans Shaw. Now I don't care who wins this battle but I am sure the shareholders of both companies do.
Lets have some understanding of what we are dealing with here. This is not a Public Sector Union, it's a straight forward battle betwwen a corporation and their employees. There is no God given right for employees to maintain the staus quo for themselves. Unfortunately the world is changing and we all have to realize this.

As you briefly mentioned, Telus operates in both BC and Alberta. I know your publication’s focus is to bring BC news to its citizens, but I think it’s important to note that you have quoted only BC employees and citizens. I think you would get a much different response to questions if they were posed to Albertans yet it is the same company, and the same union.

It is blatantly obvious to me that the TWU is misleading its membership, and now getting desperate, has turned to the general public. The TWU militant mantra has been eating away at the morale of Telus employees since the merger. There in lies the root of this stalemate.

TWU is fighting for their survival. Are they really concerned about the livelihoods of their members?

It is 2005. All people should be committed to progress, change, growth and life long learning. Is that what the union is holding out for? I don’t think so. They want you to pay your dues, and do what you do from now to eternity to ensure their survival.

Telus is a proud Canadian corporation that employs thousands of Canadians. They want to pay their employees what they are worth. What is standing in their way? Don’t let the TWU twist the meaning behind wording. Push that union of yours to let you vote on the contract offer and get back to living.

Life is short. BC - open your eyes…look at the big picture….and let’s get on with life.

I have to say one more thing about your article today. I quote”
“Telus has also censored pro-union websites by making them inaccessible to visitors, and in doing so, blocked another 766 unrelated sites.”
There is this piece of federal legislation called PIPEDA, (Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act). Alberta also has a piece of legislation called PIPA (Personal Information Protection Act). Telus MUST abide by this legislation. Did the employees (who had their pictures posted on pro-union websites), give consent, verbal or otherwise to have their pictures posted on the world-wide-web? If not, then Telus had very right, to act as they did to protect their employees, otherwise Telus would have been in contravention of PIPEDA and PIPA.
Now, in Calgary, some employees choosing to work and ignoring the strike did participate in a rally lead by the Telus CEO. This may have revealed their identity. However, by the very fact that they voluntarily participated, they were giving Telus consent. So the union’s accusations of hypocrisy are completely invalid. Telus protected the privacy of their employees. That is what they were doing when they blocked those sites temporarily. I said temporarily - while they sought an injunction to prevent the breach of their employee’s privacy. Sometimes actions are required in support of the greater good. How affected, (I mean really affected) were those 766 unrelated sites? This was not censorship. It was protection of privacy.
Your article is misleading in that it states “Telus has also censored….” What you meant was that Telus had also censored….., until an injunction was in place to protect the privacy of individuals and now that block has been removed.
The media have such power to taint the truth. We must rely on reporters to dig for the truth and report it.

Global Outsourcing is the sanitized expression greedy corporations such as Telus like to see used in the media. I would prefer to see the practice called what it is: exploitation of the poor, desperate and disenfranchised citizens in third world countries, in a phrase, Global Communications Sweatshops.

Perhaps the conditions of Telus' communication sweatshops wouldn't be as despicable as those in most of the manufacturing sweatshops currently operating around the world, but the premise is the same: secure cheap labour abroad in order to maximize profits to the detriment of the economy and the people at home.

That’s the big picture!

To all of those such as balance et al you would do well to have an original thought. We are being asked to sign off on a deal that is over 150 pages long with contract wording, and are being told "trust us". Sort of like the HEU and Gordo. I am willing to sign it providing that the likes of "balance" get their lawyer buddies, real estate agents etc to agree that whenever someone makes a proposal to another party, the lawyers and real estate agents stay out of the mix, that their services are no longer required, and simply "trust" whoever is making the proposal. I somehow doubt that Mr Balance gets many takers. Until then, I'll go with the recommendation of my agent.

Mr Hunter,

If by "agent" you are referring to the TWU, I would hazard to guess that they too have many lawyers.

If by “original idea” you mean you have heard what I’ve said from other people, then I have to wonder why. Could it be true?

Question: Why will your agent not review this contract with you, and explain that 150 page document, honestly?

Answer: Because it hasn’t been “negotiated”.

Translation: It doesn’t say what the TWU wants it to say.

Reason: It is 2005 and Telus is a progressive corporation looking to the future, wanting to keep its momentum despite the regulations imposed on Telus and Bell by the CRTC for the good of “competition”.

Suggestion: Your agent needs a reality check.

Fact: Your employer, (the one that issues the pay cheques), would be happy to talk to you.

What have they done to loose your trust? I’ll wait, while you check with your agent on how to reply.

Ms Balance

Thanks, Carrie-May Siggins, for your coverage.

For accuracy, Kyuquot is on the northwest coast of Vancouver Island, not in "Northern BC". While remote relative to the Lower Mainland, the community is more accessible than many throughout the province.

Despite the official Telus excuse blaming the intermittent fog, the slow restoration of phone service to Kyuquot after the five-day outage was likely due to the lockout. But even before the lockout, over the past year or so, the community has experienced an increasing number of outages and I wonder if that is due to cut-backs in regular maintenance. Residents have certainly noticed increased waits for new service connections and for routine repairs.

Communities like Kyuquot, without cell coverage, are wholly dependent on the phone company. If the edges of the system have begun to fray, it won't be long before the metropolitan areas also notice a deterioration in service provisions, if they've not begun to notice already.

Balance kindly mentioned Telus' obligation to abide by the PIPEDA, but the explanation he or she provided us is irrelevant.

The PIPEDA is a privacy act that seeks to protect people from data collected BY an organisation. Let us not confuse this with information -- in this case images -- collected by individuals and posted to a website that can be accessed through Telus Corp's commercial ISP venture. Whether or not the people in these photos are Telus employees is beside the point.

Moreover, the PIPEDA does not cover information gathered for "journalistic, artistic or literary purposes." This is explained in section 4(2) of the Act.

The other issue at play here is the one of consent. Did the people in the photographs give consent? With photographs taken in public and used for journalistic purposes, then consent is not needed. This is how photojournalists and paparazzi make their living; if they had to chase people for consent all the time, then they would never get anything published. The actual law has many specific rules, but the general interpretation is that public photography does not require consent.

Let's not even begin on Balance's other comments...

I can’t comment on sweatshops because I have not seen one. I can only recall what I’ve read in the media, and we all know that usually there is more to a story than what is reported. Not to say they don’t exist or that there is nothing wrong with them. I just can’t leap from Telus’s cautionary wording of non-industry specific outsourcing and re-training opportunities to third world sweatshop.

Interpreting the wording of the Telus contract to mean “secure cheap labour abroad in order to maximize profits to the detriment of the economy and the people at home” is simply fear mongering.

Thank you for correcting my misinterpretation of PIPEDA.

The journalistic hat protects so much doesn’t it?

In other words, liberty to publicly slander individuals with derogatory, insulting comments attached to a photo - based solely on the difference of opinion between a “journalist for a day with a camera” and a person going to work.

I've got it now.

Re balance response. In typical fashion she has avoided the question. In the proposed "offer" the TWU is again identified as sole and recognised bargaining agent for bargaining unit employees(Telus' wording). So why is it that they (Telus) have refused to bargain with the TWU on this specific offer? As far as my employer being willing to talk to me,it is what is not in the wording that is of concern. I don't need the TWU to tell me things I already know. Any three year old could figure that out. As far as losing my trust, their actions throughout this entire affair have only shown that they can't be trusted. I am not afraid to say that I am an employee, have challenged TWU policy when I felt it necessary and speak for myself on this issue. I'm not so naive however to know that while Telus signs my paycheck, all of the remuneration that I receive was not given to me and others out of the goodness of BC Tel/Telus' heart. It was negoiated over the past 40 plus years. Maybe balance could out herself and quit hiding behind the moniker- just another shill for Telus, or an employee with some potential insight who is more concerned with resume building and corporate climbing. Still waiting to hear back from any lawyer acquaintances you might have.

Thw Union members need to stick together. The company is nothing without the union members. If the TWU were not the barganing agent all the employees would be working poor as is the trend with big corporations. They have fought for the contract language they have over 40 + years and should not be expected to concession bargain.

Not an employee, not a lawyer nor do I know any, not even trying to impress anybody or climb a corporate ladder.

I am a teacher, and a wife of a manager at Telus who is currently living away from home doing the work of those striking workers, at least 12 hours a day on 12 day rotations in a rural Alberta town. Yes this strike ruined our vacation plans. Yes I’d like it to be over.

I have no insider information. Anything my husband has told me unequivocally has first been public or at least shared with all employees first. Since the strike began I get my information from the News Alerts I initiated on Google.

I’ve seen my husband for a total of 4 days since July 21st and I shouldn’t really care who “wins” and just want it over, but clearly employees are being mislead and on a humanitarian level, that bothers me deeply.

I chose an anonymous name because that is the safe thing to do. It is what you teach your children when they are on the internet isn't it?

Well now- maybe some honesty. As far as your holiday plans in ruins- no sympathy here. I know a lot of people whose life plans may be in jeopardy. Maybe you could ask your partner to ask the talking telus head Drew why Telus was "pleased to offer the TWU binding arbitration" and then reneged. On second thought he shouldn't- his butt would be out the door. Darren brooks no way but his way- management by fear. You refer to a humanitarian level. Darren's own recent comments should have you thinking twice. His most recent being that they can continue this dispute in perpetuity. Get used to seeing him less. This is not about obtaining a negotiated settlement, it's about breaking this union. As far as what the hubby is telling you re the dispute -get the blinkers off- he's told only what he needs to know, and knows to keep any questions to himself. Seeing as you say you don't know any lawyers maybe you could ask the original question of the Telus ones.

Rampant corporate greed is the core issue of this dispute. There is no need to take the jobs out of Canada to insure profitablity as the balance sheets of the last 5 years already prove.
Telus has a dedicated highly skilled workforce that deserves to have their loyalty reciprocated.
This company intends to outsouce the bulk of it's jobs offshore and contract out the rest so that the money saved on the expense of health benefits, etc. (dental for my child)can instead go to the men at the top who just can't get enough of the corporate trough. The balance of wealth of this country doesn't belong only in the hands of the priviledged few.

I smell another situation like the NHLPA lockout that lasted a year. The players took their advise from Bob Goodenough. A year later they realized their employers were serious. Owners have the money and they have the right to spend their profits as they wish.
The shareholders wouldn't have it any other way. End the strike and spare the members the cost they are going to pay.

There is no doubt that Darren Entwistle has it in him to be as ruthless as necessary to win this fight especially because either way he walks away with 2 years salary (13 mil)
Contrary to what Telus is feeding to the media. The workers in Alberta are just as if not more outraged at the dishonest behaviour exhibited by the executive.
This hard nosed agenda of Mr Entwistle's may very well put the company into a tailspin. The assets have all been sold off and this charade of maintaining business as usual is extremely expensive (some managers are pulling in over $500/day for driving around town)and not sustainable at all.
Not that this pleases any of the 'real' workforce, fact is we are backed into a corner, either we take a stand now or we apply for EI with the ratification of this bogus contract offer.

Greed, greed, greed. That pretty well sums up what the current planet earth is all about.Bottom line profit, as said by the poster Ron Erwin with another of his enlightening posts. Yes Ron, the world is changing, it`s a world where working people can`t afford to buy houses, and live payday to payday. The shareholders are the most important ones as usual, aren`t they Ron. They are the ones with the God given right to make profit.

whitehorse
Where do you get "This company intends to outsouce the bulk of it's jobs offshore and contract out the rest"
This is pure fear mongering and really incredibly ignorant.
Telus is growing jobs not shrinking them. Why would they have recently invested over $58M in new contact center infrastructure in canada. They have also added over 300 jobs this year alone and had plans to add another 150 by year end. Give your head a shake. I can't believe the unfounded paranoia. Last strike it was all about our jobs going to GTE in the US. More unfounded fearmongering. Remember the signs "yankee go home" what a crock of nonsnense. Get real before the company has no choice but to replace you because you are not here.

I sure hope the sane brothers and siters are reading the posts from Whitehorse,chuckstraight,hughes and others as these folks really are the reson they are out on the street. These are the ones in a hundred that have been the disturbers all the way along. The real worker know who they are. We all work with a few of these folks unfortunately and they can really poison an office. I can only hope they take their bitterness to the competition. members at large these are the types of people who are making you stay on the street!

by the way whitehorse Darren's salary is $900K. It's public info. no suprise that you would either be ingnoarant of that or just misrepresenting the facts.

chuck; Telus is a corporation, of course shareholders are who is most important. Without shareholders there is no Telus to work at. Do you have an alternative besides the govt. nationalizing Telus ?
The logic I see here is like a Public Sector Union dispute, where the Union tries to make us all feel guilty about their situation.
Public support will not happen, they already think a job at Telus is like going to heaven compared to most of their jobs.

Hunter, glad no sympathy extended – wouldn’t want it. Just wanted to explain my position.

I will ask your “reneged arbitration” question the next time I speak with my husband. I hope you will sign in tomorrow for the response.

Whitehorse. My husband worked on a rural plough crew for 2 years. He was in I & R for 10, back in the day of the IBEW. He’s been in management for 16. He isn’t “driving around town all day” and the rural community he is in is getting damn good service. But he would happily hand back the work orders to striking workers and come home.

Ron and Wwood, thanks for helping to bring facts forward.

Wwood You are the poison. I don't see any bitterness in chuckstraight's post, only a sign of intelligent thought that perhaps corporate greed is not the path to prosperity for all mankind. But that kind of logic flows over your head like a cloud bank. You have become desensitized to your travel companions on this planet. Just like all the extreme views like, I can't mention his name as I have him on permanent ignore so I can only give his initials, Ron Erwin. You are both incredibly self absorbed and are quite likely terrible lovers and spend a lot of time alone. It goes without saying that you are boring and ordinary, and without original thought. Sheep dip is your main staple. You think buying organic food is a bad idea because you might get ripped off. Yet it's your god given right to drive a hummer should you choose to buy one and park it in your 3 car garage. As a matter of fact you use these items as a replacement for any real people skills, like the afore mentioned love making or conversing with friends, family and neighbors. Not to mention the lessons learned in conflict resolution. You still believe in the American dream "as seen on TV." Please go away before I tell you what your real problems are.

Having worked for Telus in it`s former incarnation as BC Tel, and subsequently leaving after the 1981 strike, and as well having a number of friends/relatives who are still employed by the current megaversion, I at least have some experience/input as to how things are at Telus. Does Ron Erwin have anything other than his hatred of any unions to base his comments on? We do know what Ron is all about. He is one of the disciples of Gordon Campbell. You said it Ron- the shareholders are the most important. Until the awareness of the population rises above that kind of childlike thinking, we are all screwed, and that includes you Ron.

I am certain nothing would please you more than to have one less person talking about the real facts in this situation.
You are as wrong about you assessment on me as you are about the assessment of the situation you have created for yourself.
You are also wrong about your perception of Darren. Darren is a normal guy running a large company. He’s paid very average as compared to his peers. His performance on the other hand is well above average as compared to his peers and assessed by the maket. He is very passionate about the success of our company and people that are part of our team. By the way he is far more compassionate than many others in similar CEO positions that could be running this company. I have met him and spoken to him as have many others. That all stopped however when the TWU muzzled him by forcing a communications ban. In fact I think that was one thing you did to hurt him the most. He is compassionate about his team and loves to engage in conversations, be challenged, ask opinions, answer questions. The TWU leaders like you however do not need people going around and speaking with the masses about reality. That would get in the way of portraying him like some devil.
As long as you keep talking though the majority of great twu members will see the leadership and the little gang of clingons for what they are. They already have the experience of working with your type in the office. The ones always taking a bit more, giving a bit less. Pinning all the garbage up on the TWU board, spreading fear and doubt, “hey don’t work too hard or they’ll start to expect it all the time”. “Management is bad they are out to get you” .
We all know the type and we all know there isn’t many of you. Usually 2 or 3 per hundred or so from my experience. Just about works out to the number of jobs the company has listed to contract out. Maybe you could do us all a favor and take your ilk and go. Then buy some shares sit back and enjoy the ride. We’ll do the work, not worry. Then the future would truly be friendly.

Wwood-maybe they could contract out your job. Sounds like you are a real company guy, maybe you wouldn`t mind a little sacrifice?

Another point- one of the biggest challenges facing the population of the planet in the future will be the lack of meaningful employment. This applies directly to the current situation at Telus. Wwood and Ron Erwin-you probably are unable to understand this.

Ok, I’ll bite. Please explain “meaningful employment”.

Is employment a right, or is it something earned?

When you are finished school, are you told by a higher power what job you will have or do you decide of your own free will based on your education, interests, talents and dreams?

Excuse me but you are what you are because of your own actions. Employment is not just handed to you, you gotta work for it!

chuck, I sacrafice all the time yet I still don't believe for a minute that I have a job garanteed for life. I do believe however that I am adding value and I believe in my abilities such that if the company does not feel they are getting adequate value from me they will find someone who does. I also believe that if I am not getting what I want from the company I am confident in my abilities to go elsewhere. Either wayway I will not sit around and whine about it. That the great thing about choice and ones marketability.

Wwood should do some "research" in the publically available sites before providing false figures about the CEO's compensation.

Check this out Weood
http://www.companypay.com/executive/compensation/darren_entwistle_4251824_TU.asp

To Wwood
I can tell that you are not a long time employee. "Marketability" and ability to go elsewhere is a young person's point of view. You may feel different when you hit your 50's and have 25 - 30 years invested in a pension plan. Even if you don't have the pension investment, you may be surprised to find that no matter what your skills and experience, no one will want to hire the 50 year old that you will become. The future is not that friendly.

My this site is haunted by scabs and neo-cons! There's one thing left that differentiates Canada from the USA. People tell the government what rules to make for business, rather than business telling government what rules to make for people. That IS the God given right of the people, and some of us are going to make sure it stays that way.

i remember a more innocent time when the population wasn't addicted to cell phones. you could walk down the street without having to listen to every ******* and his/her brother talking on a cell phone. i have no sympathy for anyone saying they can't make ends meet and yet can still afford a cell phone.

two things can make a beautiful woman look ugly: a cigarette hanging out of her mouth or a cell phone stuck in her ear.

i'd be happy if the whole industry imploded.

"Employment is not just handed to you, you gotta work for it!"

A little off topic, but that’s the silliest argument ever. It goes hand in hand with the second silliest management argument ever, “I got where I am because of merit (could it be that knowing the right folks and the best education money could buy may have had some bearing as well??)”.

Nepotism has always been a part of gaining access to corporate management hierarchis, whether it’s TELUS (BC Tel), SPARKUS (BC Hydro), FLOATUS (Hahn’s Ferry Corp), or YOU NAME US Corp; and it’s alive a thriving in TELUS as much as it ever was.

One more thing: Today’s TELUS (and yesterday’s BC Tel) got where it is on the backs of union employees. If it weren’t for BC Tel/TELUS union workers there would be no jobs for the likes of Ms.Balance’s hubby or Wwood. In fact the Balance hubby and the Wwood could disappear off the face of the TELUS planet tomorrow and the operation wouldn’t miss a beat. There’s an endless line of vacuous minds waiting to fill those “meaningful employment” vacancies, and with the same level of competence.

Actually, I would say that a lot of what a person gets in life is not earned. Did I earn to be born in Canada?

Did I earn to be born to a parent who had job security?

Being born into my circumstances was just luck. But social justice activists fought for things like collective bargaining and job security and earned these.

By the way, in the industry I was involved in, it was understood that those who were promoted to management were those who were kind of foolish and rather incompetent. So, if one earned promotion it was rather dubious. The way Telus is acting now, I would tend to think there might be a similarity in the telecommunications sector.

I feel that I am the lucky one... My family has a long history with AGT/TELUS. My grand parents moved from the UK and set up home in the Taber/ Lethbridge area. My grand father worked with AGT until his death, I also have aunts that worked with AGT. When I was hired and EARNED a job at AGT back about 12 years ago I was proud to carry on the family history!! I was also was proud to be part of the change over to TELUS and the joining of two great companies TELUS/BC TEL. I have always felt that the joining of the two would only make the company stronger and the union great!!

But now that I stand on the one side of a line that is breaking friendships,working relationships etc,I have come to a light bulb moment.....

I am walking this line not only for a long and proud family history, but for the future of eveyone that is part of a union. We need to stand ALL together, we are not only fighting to preserve our union's history but everyone's future!!!

If we vote on this so called contract from the company, and we vote it down. The union will NOT be able to negotiated the best of both contracts from BC and AB. They have to work from the company contract that we voted down. They can not go back and fight for what is rightly ours!!

You know as far as not seeing one's family, we all have a simlar story.... I have picked up a "part time" job which has turned into a full time job and still have time to join my brothers and sisters on the line. So there is a lack of quailty time with my own family- but they understand and stand with me and don't point fingers. I know that employees are not being mislead, and don't care about the managers that have been working long hours. I for one can say that I know what they are going thru - they are walking a mile in my shoes!!

Just where did Wwood go. I have yet to hear an apology for trying to pass off Daren E as only being paid 900k.

Maybe the shock of finding out his leader and chief and the telus machine has not been telling him the truth about how much the executives were making got him thinking he himself was worth more! Worse yet maybe he thought his little ramblings here earned him the right to ask Darren and company for a raise and he got his ass fired for not being in FIFO mode.

Someday shareholders will get wise to the fact that executives who line their own pockets by abusing workers to get short-term profits actually hurt their investments in the longrun.

Give me back BCTel anyday and to hell with Telus!

Shareholders are the ones that support us living in a world of Corporate pyramids. If I was going to run for politics the way Marc Emery did with his one platform party I would choose a platform supporting the death penalty for corporations and unaccountable government leaders.

I think the employees should start up their own communications company. Take back your jobs literally. I mentioned on the other Telus article that the documentary "Is WalMart Good For America?" shows how corporations are WalMartizing peoples jobs. Another documentary I saw was called "The Take". It was a moving example of some Argentinian workers that faced losing their livihood when Argentina went bankrupt. The company owners were leaving the country with truckloads of cash from the banks and the workers were owed a lot of money. So, they wouldn't leave the factories and they kept working. They claimed that they were owed so much money that they would take the factory in lieu of payment. I don't think the story has a happy ending as the last I heard the government was stepping in on behalf of the factory owners. However, this show made me think of the original purpose of unions and cooperatives. The power lies in the community not in the far away CEO asking for all to genuflect and praise the "Idol".

People need to take back their workplaces and their governments.

Balance, you said:

"The journalistic hat protects so much doesn’t it?

"In other words, liberty to publicly slander individuals with derogatory, insulting comments attached to a photo - based solely on the difference of opinion between a “journalist for a day with a camera” and a person going to work."

Ultimately, if those photographs were libelous (slander is spoken, libel is written), then it is up to the individuals pictured in them to initiate a complaint, lawsuit or whatever. Obviously journalistic and artistic use can only go so far. If the images are used improperly, then there are legal actions a person can take. One thing we know for sure is that Telus has no responsibility, no obligation and certainly no right to block any website containing these photographs.

Researcher should be more careful with his research.. I referred to Darren’s salary not his total compensation. When one is in a role that involves risks and is based on performance (something you can clearly not relate to with such an entitlement view) they are paid a salary, and then typically have a performance based bonus plan and in most cases stock options. As I said in a previous post to your legal beagle Silken:
So Silken, you want some substance!
Since Darren Entwistle’s compensation seems to be one of the main underpinnings of your bitterness (although for some of you I suspect it is more chronic than that) I thought I would try and enlighten you as it is clear that your focus on him has limited your overall view.
According to an independent survey done by the Globe and mail Globe Investor 2004 rankings on the top 100 Canadian public corporations the average CEO pay (not salary) for 2004 was $5.5M a jump of 57% over 2003. The average salary was $729K. Darren Entwistle ranked 38th out of 100 with a total 2004 pay of $6.5M including his salary of $900K. All in all a lot of money no doubt, but very average as compared to his peers.
A great many of the companies on this list are also have unions. Interesting to note that Jim Shaw received the second largest bonus ($6.3M) of anyone on the 100 person list. This is the very company you are urging people to take their business to and away from telus; your employer. This is also a company with a collective agreement in place that is substandard to the one being offered to you and it’s with your own TWU. Unbelievable.
What you will not see on the rankings or hear from the biased and bitter TWU hardliners is that the options exercised by Darren Entwistle were reinvested into telus stock because he is believes in the company. This is part of the public record. Also part of the public record is that among CEOs who cashed options in 2004, the average gain was $6.9-million, compared with $4.4-million in 2003. Darren Entwistle was below the average.

I strongly suggest that it may do you and your TWU leadership more good in the long run if you would take the time to look at the offer and do a similar comparison to your peers in unions in telecom and in general (unless this is not about a fair offer as is starting to become evident by your delusional rants). Then come back to this forum with facts to show how hard doneby you really are comparatively. Please look at all the metrics including job security, salary, total compensation, share purchase plans, benefits, etc. I challenge you to find that you are not among the top 5%. Darren’s not in the top 5%! Sadly I will never see that comparison come from you in any public forum. You’re too lazy to do the legwork and definitely not interested in what’s fair. For those TWU members that may read this and have been blindly listening to the bitter hardliners I strongly suggest that you start quickly thinking for yourself. Your misguided leadership is leading you down a very dark road.

Here are the links. Do your research http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/ArticleNews/story/RTGAM/20050504/wxrmain04
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/bnfiles/business/2005/pdf/paychart05.pdf

Chuck hate; I am happy to see that you understand how important it is to have a job ( meaningful ???? ) The people in the Phillipines realize this as well. Are you so selfish that you want to hog all the jobs in the industrial west and ignore the rest of the world who are desperate for a paying job. \ I get a kick out of North American Socialists who are in fact not socialists atall. They are a greedy, self serving lot who's ONLY intersest is making sure themselves and their union buddies continue the status quo that protects their wages and benefits at whatever cost to our GDP. If a 3RD world worker ixs lucky enough to work in one of these so called sweatshops for $16.00 per day, that's $12.00 more per day than they got previously. They consider themselves rich.
Please don't try to fool all of us that you are hollier than thou. I am in fact more altruistic than the average union hack who is hiding behind the cloak of rightionist.
Telus is a good corporate citizen and many families have benefited.

Ron Erwin, do tell us how the GDP will be negatively affected when Telus gives in an signs a new contract with the TWU. Truth be told, it's a lie.

To The The,

So, a "journalist for a day with a camera" shouting obenities, and derogitory remarks at a worker going to work is slander,

Posting those same comments next to a photo on the world wide web for all to see is libelous,and...

An employer shouldn't be concerned for their workers safety or privacy.

I'm glad Telus is more responsible than they have to be.

Everyone,
please read Wwood's last response,

His response is exactly the type of half-truths you would expect from a company "fido" (oops I mean) "fifo" man. I guess he feels the rest of the compensation package does not get into Darren's pocket or maybe the rest of the compensation doesn't cost the organization any money . . . maybe we should all be negotiating for bonuses.

In fact you will notice that if you really check out the bonuses these executive bozos take home you will find that they have nothing to do with company performance. On the contrary these guys most always continue getting large bonuses (exceeding their salary amounts)during periods when the company is losing money.

The The; Why would Telus give in and sign a new contract with the TWU that would result in diminished profits. Their obligation is to shareholders to maximize profits in order to drive the share price up and raise more money in order to stay in the game. Or are you suggesting that they ignore their responsibility to the shareholder to benefit in order to benefit their workforce. This twisted logic is thriving in Venezuala, Cuba, N.Korea and China. This is not the model for Canada, sorry.

Y'know, all this is going to be moot in the end! All it's going to take is companies like Shaw, Bell, Rogers, and who-have-you, giving free trade-ins on all these cellphones and high-speed modems and whatnot.

Here, we've never really been happy with the service we've gotten from Telus (c'mon - a TEN-HOUR window for a service call?) We actually did prefer the automated computer voice than the human, mainly because the computer couldn't have a bad day (and the human never seemed to have a good one.)

So, the union wants us to cancel some of our phone features? Well, I'll tell you what! Shaw happily gave us high-speed internet and local and long-distace phone service AND gave us a 3-hour window in which they showed up during the first hour of waiting. Rogers gave us a cellphone plan that's actually $5 cheaper per month.

Why should we deal with Telus anymore? Telus is a dinosaur! You union people better just bite the bullet and get back to work, because if there's a lot of people like in my household, there won't be any work for you to go back to.

Balance:

Whatever you suggest, I am not having any of it. All I have done is explain the law as it exists. In this instance, the PIPEDA does not apply to Telus. Moreover, Telus broke the golden rule of ISPs; it decided to filter content. ISPs have been sure to steer clear of filtering because they want to avoid being held responsible for the content their customers view.

You can ramble about all the melodrama you like, but melodrama is not my suit.

Ron Erwin: I had my tongue planted firmly in my cheek when I wrote "gives in"! That being said, you and I both know Telus won't be doomed if they compromise just a little bit. Even McDonald's gives its employees a yearly raise. ;)

I just read on Drudge that Google is getting into the ' voice over intrenet' business. This is yet another reason for TWU members to get with it and go along with Telus and attempt to keep the company viable.

It seems like a lot of fiddling going on while the telecom industry burns...

Without taking sides, there are real challenges to be taken up here, but they aren't the challenges of the past. That would make things easy.

TELUS has the challenge of remaining successful in an increasingly competitive market while delivering legacy services that are in decreasing demand. The TWU, indeed all telecom unions, has the challenge of protecting jobs in a global/technological environment where jobs/businesses just disappear. Not offshored or outsourced, but gone! (Anybody want to invest in a payphone business? Didn't think so.. So you're an expert on voice switches and laying lines? Get up to speed on WIMAX (Wireless) technology. etc, etc)

What we don't see is a dialogue regarding these issues. It's clear that we can't simply rework the old CBA - different times, different issues. The personalizing of the issues has made the dispute much more immature and destructive. I'd like to see the TWU step up to the role of a modern labour partner with constructive suggestions. I would also like to see TELUS involve the union in its decision-making process in a meaningful way.

As it stands right now, ideology is blinding us from reality, which it usually does.

Don't worry about your vacation Balance. When the strike is over and your manager/husband gets his bonus, you will be able to travel the world twice on a vacation of a lifetime. I suspect that the bonus arrangement probably exceeds $20,000 per manager at this point in time and promises to get bigger as time goes by.

Dear Ron Erwin- Sorry I did`nt post for awhile. I was toiling away at my very unmeaningful job last night for twelve hours.And believe me, after 34 years of work, I do know what meaningful employment is all about. You must be quite a character. A staunch disciple of Campbell, Klein, Bush, et al.Everything that the corporate world is good, and you follow like a lamb. Why is it that you define anyone that doesn`t buy this crap as a "socialist"? Telus a good corporate citizen? Define this.

Balance: Being a teacher, I'll assume you belong to a union. (please correct me if I'm wrong)My wife is also a teacher and a few years
back they were on strike. It wasn't a long strike but they did stick together and NEGOTIATED a contract. How did you feel about
that? Were you sad, happy, indifferent? Did you
turn down any of the benefits of that contract?
It wasn't forced on them like Telus is attempting with the TWU. Could you imagine the
outrage if that was tried on the teachers....
or how about the nurses......postal workers??

Balance, why don't you just accept the fact that yout hubby accepted the big pay raise and prestige of a management job without any coaxing from the union's rank and file membership.

If he is working 12-hour shifts on a 12-day rotation in a small rural Alberta community, just what is the problem?

Let me wipe away my tears as I worry about how he will feed his family on $2,000 a week. But I do suspect your unionized teaching job will ensure the kids don't starve.

Perhaps your biggest bitch is that the old man ain't home for you at night. Again, let me shed a few tears here for you, you poor woman, abandoned by a hubby who is more interested in feathering his own corporate nest than maitaining his matramonial responsibilities.

But then, you seem to think everyone else should simply roll over and play dead so the hubby can come home again.

Your anti-union rhetoric oozes off your every word. Your understanding of libel is at best pathetic and more likely exactly what you were told to say.

My experience with your company (Telus) has me convinced your claim that it was protecting the identity of Telus workers when it censored the TWU website is a crock.

Your company (Telus) had to be kicked and dragged by the CRTC into stopping harrassing phone calls to my home phone by a corporate client that bought the rights (?) from Telus to use a computer-based phone system to make cold calls to Telus phone customers.

The offending company used a phone line without a callback option for Telus customers.

When I complained (following a long and fruitless search through Telus' usual run-around customer service system), a vp in Telus Calgary office curtly offered me the option of buying a Telus service to stop the harrassing calls or to take my complaint to the RCMP.

That was it. No 'we're sorry' or 'we'll deal with it' or anything that might suggest I was anything but a cash cow.

The woman didn't even have the decency to remind me I have a right to complain to the CRTC.

She didn't have to, because I know that and I did precisely that. Guess what?

The CRTC took my complaint of harrassment seriously as it did my complaint that your company (Telus) was acting like a pimp for aiding and abetting the harrassers by allowing them untethered access to residential phone customers.

So, in summary, if that is how Telus treats it customers of more than 25 years under the direction of your hero Darren E., then I would say you have little to whine about just because your hubby sold his soul and now it's payback time.

Allan,

I think your tone is rather inappropriate and unsuitable for a forum such as this... Ratchet it back a bit, if you don't mind. I think your point is that without worker solidarity the TWU's ability to wring concessions from TELUS is damaged. That is a very important point to make.

There are very real emotions involved, I understand, but we can still be civilized.

Thanks researcher for encouraging everyone to read my posts. If you doubt the figures check with the Globe and Mail. My original response was to Whitehorse who said “There is no doubt that Darren Entwistle has it in him to be as ruthless as necessary to win this fight especially because either way he walks away with 2 years salary (13 mil)”
My whole point on Darren’s salary/bonus/compensation is because the TWU has made it such an issue. I am only pointing out that it is average by any measure against other CEO’s in Canada (not to mention the rest of the industrialized world) so why is it an issue. The TWU wages on the other hand are within the top percentile of any comparable job in Canada (not to mention the rest of the industrialized world) yet you would have your friends, family and associates take away the very services that keep you employed in order to get more money. Who are the greedy ones here? By the way would you straighten out Whitehorse on the salary vs bonus and total compensation thing, not sure he gets it.

Windy,
Not part of a union - never have been. Contract work and loving it. I did support the teachers in their plight. Governments need a wake up call sometimes, and unions do have their place. But the ATA knows their place, and they are open and truthfull with their members. Is the TWU? That is what I question.

Allan - I feel sorry for you.

Good bye - this forum has degraded beyond my limits.

Hey bemused don't let the normal twu intimidation silence you. That's excatly what people like them want. One of the benefits of people like them posting this stuff is that the "normal" members see what the TWU really supports.

Bemused

I think my tone is just fine for this forum and my message is not about union solidarity as I assume anyone bothering to step in here is fully cognizent of the union's need for full support by its membership.

I was, in fact, responding to the repeated postings by Balanced, who claims to be the spouse of a Telus manager who has had to get his hands dirty, if you will.

Perhaps you don't appreciate that I wrote at length about what I feel are underhanded actions by Telus to allow nuisance phone-bank operators to harrass it's own residential customers.

As I stated in the posting to Balanced, I see paralells between how Telus treats it's residential customers and how it treats its employees.

If you found that innapropriate or unsuitable, about all I can say is too damned bad.

I find it somewhat offensive that you have the nerve to suggest a union ought to come to the bargaining table with concessions to offer the company.

I suspect you know enough about labour relations to understand it is not in the union's mandate to propose management or corporate decisions, which in any CA I have ever read or worked with is soley a management responsibility.

The union's role is to get the best deal it can for its members. Unions were a response to the unfair powers of unfettered management.

The adversarial labour relations system we are familiar with in North America is a beast of management in response to the formation of workers' power through union.

At the risk of inflating my inappropriatness (in your eyes) here, let me remind you that it was management goons at Ford Motor Co. in Detriot who broke workers heads when they began to organize in the 1940s.

It was managers who turned the goons on miners and their families who tried to organize across western NA a few years before that.

Ditto the ships and ports of both Canada and the US, where right wing governments aided corporations in breaking union heads.

I could go on with examples, but I suspect you know this, yet you attempt to peddle this pap about the need for the union to get on side because the world is changing.

There are a great many changes taking place, but the labour relations climate at Telus certainly isn't and that is first and foremost the fault of Telus, it's CEO and its shareholders.

I'd suggest that as long as you are peddling that line it is you that is enflaming the debate with your "hey, I'm not taking sides" schtick.

Contracts with the TWU have negligible impacts on share values: gains or losses. Several years back TELUS shares traded at nearly $60 and then, due to a management decision to focus on wireless in Eastern Canada, shares crashed to nearly $6. They have since recovered and non-voting shares are now trading in the low $40s.

None of these past fluctuations in share value are a result of TWU contracts. Given that less than 10% of the population is directly involved in equity trading (although a larger % is indirectly, and mostly unknowingly, involved through pension plans and other instruments) it is understandable that the high volume shareholders (predominantly the well-heeled upper management types) are concerned about share values. Blaming union employees for poor management is to be expected from those that believe they deserve more.

TELUS is doing whatever it can to get out of the business of plain old wire line telephone service (POTS). Today their main focus, besides keeping their main shareholders happy, is on information (data) management and wireless. And as a result, under the proposed management contract, all of the traditional telephone jobs have become non-core functions. Who wouldn’t be concerned about contract wording? If TELUS gets its way, installation, construction, engineering, operator services and record keeping work forces will be contracted out and will become history.

As a result of this shift away from POTS, TELUS is also no longer interested in providing service to rural communities. The communities with the highest population densities like Victoria, Vancouver, Kelowna, Prince George, Edmonton and Calgary are where the dollars are and where capital dollars will be spent. As far as TELUS is concerned providing telephone plant/service in the rural remote areas is a royal pain in the ass and should be sold to the highest bidder. Rural dwellers will, and have, complained bitterly to the CRTC but TELUS is protected by tariffs that force outlying areas to contribute to the cost of new service. Not even the large cable companies are willing to take on rural BC. Shaw and Rogers will not come to the rescue.

To all you who whine away at "rampant corporate greed" or "greed, greed, greed", consider that greed is a basic human attribute that will always remain with the species. It expresses itself in many ways, and in many forms. For example, trade unions, when they have the power, express that greed just as well.

So don't rant against what is human nature. Just accept that it is something that must be managed and sometimes regulated. Please read Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations (or a modern adaptation of same) to understand how some of these characteristics of human nature can improve society as well as harm it.

Finally something worth discussing. It looks like there is definitely some movement taking place.
Check out this letter to TWU leader Bruce Bell and then checkout the link. http://www3.telus.net/twudemocrats/index.htm Now we’re talking and it’s about time.

August 15, 2005

Mr. Bruce Bell
President T.W.U.
5261 Lane Street
Burnaby B.C.
V5H 4A6

Dear brother Bruce

We members of the T.W.U are concerned about the course of action taken by the executive
committee, without consultation with the membership. An impasse occurred after 4.5 years of trying
to get Telus to bargain based on the existing contract between the TWU and BC – Tel, while Telus
wanting to bargain based on a different contract. In our view, it is clear that the industry has changed
to such an extent that the old contract, even though it has served us well, is not realistic under the
present economic circumstances and hence it will and can never be accepted by Telus. We are of the
opinion that it would have been better if the Union executive committee had consulted the
membership as to what course of action to follow, before taking job action. For example, in stead of
resorting to job action the TWU could have
• Accept the Telus offer as is
• Report to work under the new contract, while indicating at the same time that this does not
constitute acceptance of the contract in its entirety.
• Bargain with Telus on the basis of the Telus offer
These options should be put before the membership and the pros and cons debated by the
membership, so as to decide which action to take.
Furthermore, we are concerned about the projected length of time this job action may take. We
suggest that the majority of the members cannot economically sustain a nine month job action and
that members will be forced by economic reasons to abandon job action. This would severely weaken
the Union’s bargaining position. Given the fact that our industry has changed in fundamental ways,
business as usual is no longer an option. Hence, we are of the opinion that generally speaking the
Telus offer is reasonable and indeed the wisest course of action would be to negotiate, using the Telus
offer as a basis, identifying concerns and negotiate remedies to these concerns.
In closing we wish to stress that the afore mentioned opinions in now way constitute a criticism of the
Union’s executive committee, rather we wish to make our opinions known in the hope that they may
serve the interest of the Union’s members.

Sincerely,

TWU members for democracy

I once had a pebble strike my windshield leaving a snall crack. Over time the crack grew and eventually I had to replace the windsheild.

Balance thanks for stating your views

Alan , you're ignorant boorish and rude, that's not an exclusively "union" or "management" trait.

my view:I can't see there being much general support from the public for the strikers...they're not affected very much...

reminds me of the hockey strike...only the strikers aren't wealthy.

I think the union leadership is leading their members down a very precarious road

Martin, your argument is pathetic.

"Basic human nature", like murder, rape, racism, nepotism, tax cheating, fraud?

All wonderful attributes I guess if you are into that kind of life style.

Sorry Martin, but there are a whole whack of things you might describe as basic human nature that we have outlawed or discouraged for centuries.

Of course, you may be of the persuasion that we were all created as perfect little replicas of some old guy with a beard. If that's the case, and I must admit a doubt it, then the old geezer sure screwed up on the perfection angle, didn't he?

No, it's my dream that some day little boys and girls will not have to learn how to screw their neighbour before he screws you, which is the real premise behind capitalism.

I just love it when you guys quote Adam Smith's 300-year-old thesis. I do suspect Smith would laugh in your face if you were to suggest to him that 21st century capitalism is true to his views.

Greed, like sloth, hatred and bullying may be gifted upon us all. Some of us, however, realize we have to drop some of those traits as we head from the sandbox out into the larger community.

Balance, please don't weep for me. I quite enjoy were I am at.

So the Alberta Teachers Association "knows their place" yet the TWU isn't honest and open with its members.

Is the latter your thought or your husband's given that presumably your involvement with Telus is through your spouse?

Now I wouldn't suggest he hates the union or holds some grudge, but then managers do develop views that often clash with the needs of the workers.

Oh Allan

I imagine your favourite historical bit of Canadian union members "...struggling for their rights" would be the case several years ago of the miners in the Northwest Territories who who were convicted of murdering 6 people who had crossed their picket lines to work in "their" mine.....but they were just "scabs" not "real people" Union bosses love to refer to their followers as "real people", Jessie Uppal of the BC Fed does this in this thread or in the article that generated this thread. Those of us who don't belong to unions are what...unreal people, non people.

sad

upanatem must be one of darrens manager buddies you sure sound like it more company spin glad you dont speak for me or most TWU members

sure duff whatever you say. Just keep thinking like that while the world keeps turning. Or is it flat?

Upanatem:
'Accept the Telus offer as is'...............
'Report to work under the new contract'......
'Bargain with Telus'(which is an oxymoron)...
You're being facetious..............right?

To: 4Cryinoutloud
`People need to take back their workplaces and their governments`
How would you propose to do that?

How would you propose they take back their work places and their governments?

Maxwell, it’s my guess it will be done by an all out revolt, and probably accompanied by a lot of violence.

The rich don’t seem to realize that they are the minority and that maintaining a significantly large percentage of well-paid unionized workers in the population is to their advantage, for more than economic reasons.

The fact that we haven’t seen a full-blown Marxist revolt is due largely to the temporary economic relief afforded by mergers and rampant globalization. This temporary access to the wealth of developing nations has given today’s union worker the illusion that they are part of a prosperous middle class. As we are beginning to see, with the obscene management/worker salary ratios, massive cutbacks in the number of unionized workers, outsourcing and the management attitudes displayed by the likes of TELUS, this illusion is starting to wear thin.

As more and more workers find themselves joining the ever-swelling ranks of the poor (in today’s economy, folks paid minimum wage, or even double minimum wage, must be considered poor) the unrest and anger will become uncontrollable.

first off - i sympathize with the workers 100%.

but... i would just like to remind everyone to NEVER chose Telus again regardless of how cheap their plans get or whatever crappy incentives they are offering to get back your business...

i could write a small novel about the frustration, lost time and money they've been responsible for in my life over the past 3 years. i can't imagine that worse service could exist.

Telus - MAY YOU ROT IN HELL! (But may your striking employee's find better job's away from this evil corporation.)

So, let me get this straight. IN order for corporations to survive in todays business climate, we need to pay executives and management types considerably more, and all other workers considerably less?

Allan,

The union's role is to get the best deal it can for its members. Unions were a response to the unfair powers of unfettered management.

As you say, Allan, unions were a reaction to management. No argument there. But instead of retaining this reactive stance, the union can be proactive and acontribute to decisions that are in the best interests of the members. As long as we rely on reflexes to defend, we aren't actually going to get any advantage. A number of unions (CAW, for example) have modernized and become quite sophisticated in areas such as process management and efficiency so that they can be agents of change, contribute to each individual worker's well-being and, yes, act as a responsible partner in a market economy.

Just as the union acts as the members' agent by hiring lawyers, the union can also do this in the area of business. Afterall, we don't want management to pull a fast one, do we? And staying informed and in front of the game is the best way to protect the interests of the workers. Otherwise the workers are always on the defensive.

So the TWU has a duty to its members to state where they think things are going in telecommunications, what are their options to Telus' stated need to outsource and how they would defend the workers to benefit in a non-monopoly environment, where market and technological forces can make entire work groups irrelevant.

KWD.

You wrote: "Maxwell, it’s my guess it will be done by an all out revolt, and probably accompanied by a lot of violence.

The rich don’t seem to realize that they are the minority....."

The rich have always been a minority that has exploited the apathy of the masses. I believe that on two occasions of severe economic depression, when revolutionary fervor was starting to build and threaten, that the Capitalist system saved itself by initiating global armed conflict.

Today, the homeless, the unemployed, the wage slaves to part-time minimum-wage jobs, and organized workers under attack, all have a common enemy that is ORGANIZED and aided by corrupt government that will milk you of your last dollar but, in complicity with business and the mainstream media, will not see its applecarts upset.

A large group of Italian women infuriated at the gouging of a supermarket, rampaged through the store and left without paying for the items they had gathered. How unCanadian.

A planeload of 200 Asian passengers, so delayed that they were unable to take the bus tours planned for, refused to leave the plane until promised reimbursement - which they received. How unCanadian.

I give you my support and wish you the best of luck. But with today's weapons, perhaps we both agree that armed global conflict today is out of the question.

This just in:

There seems to be a growing recognition that this dispute is one that many
employers want to stay away from and out of. TELUS is not winning any
friends in the business community by declaring open warfare on its
employees. The impact of Darren trying to take out the union goes much
farther than the doors of TELUS. It is an action that creates the strongest
reaction from other unions who fear the same thing for their workplace.
Instead of weakening the TWU, TELUS' actions may in fact strengthen the
entire union movement.

A good example of backfiring strategies is the restriction of the Voices for
Change website. TELUS' action caused the website to receive international
attention and the issue of content control regulatory attention, much to the
dismay of other ISP providers.

But it does not stop there. TELUS senior executives and Board of Directors
are going to have to make some crucial decisions pretty soon. Do they want
a CEO who is spending all of his time on the picket line, trying to commit
acts (which everyone in Canada knows is unethical) by convincing people to
cross a picket line. Is it a wise use of corporate funds to have a CEO be
driven around in a limousine, surrounded by body guards, in an effort to
have secret meetings with a few members?

That kind of behaviour gives corporations a bad name and a CEO a bad
reputation. Sure he may think it is glamorous or that he is waging the war
against a union for all corporations but, in reality, his actions demean
him. TELUS is best known for the labour dispute, not for its service or for
its products. People don't want anything to do with TELUS.

That sentiment is expressed every day by businesses that don't want TELUS on
their premises, that won't sell TELUS products in their stores and that
refuse to provide service to TELUS. That sentiment is expressed every day
by customers who come to the picket line in support - who donate money,
food, assistance and gift certificates to members on the picket line.

Last but not least, we have received a number of calls from unnamed managers
who no longer want to do TWU bargaining unit work during the labour dispute.
We said we would support them if they were disciplined for taking that
action and we will.

looks like telus management is well represented here.

bad management makes unions, the person runninng telus, a moron in my opinion is a perfect example of really bad management if I was a shareholder I would be hollering for the guys head on a platter!

Skitikfool; Do you really expect anyone to believe anything you stated above ? Customers come up to the picket line and give money ? I doubt it, but go ahead and try to deflect the fact that this STRIKE is about a bunch of people that refuse to believe it's not the 1980's when BC Tel had a monopoly on land lines and when their employees wanted more money BC Tel simply went to the CRTC and got a rate increase which forced us customers to pay for unrealistic wage and condition demands for them. The world has changed since then and I don't need to explain how, as we all know Telus is a publicly traded Corporation that has to make money and compete with a whole bunch of competitors.

if ron thinks that by getting the union out of the picture the cost of his phone is going down he must have his head stuck in the sand or somwhere else

It looks more like Telus is setting itself up for a merger or takeover of some sort.

Bemused, I find it interesting that you throw out CAW as a model of modern unionism.

CAW is one hell of a lot larger than TWU, and represents workers right across the auto industry, transporation industry and a whole whack of other industries.

TWU has one opponent sitting across the bargaining table. It's called Telus. And unless you are perceptively handicapped you know as well as I that Telus isn't negotiating for a fair contract, it intends to bust the TWU and force an inferior contract on its workers.

If General Motors were to try that game with CAW, even right-wing tories in Ontario would be calling for the head of GM Canada on a platter. Ford, Chrysler, Honda and all the other manufacturers would be gleefully dancing a jig in anticipation of new sales to former GM customers.

Both sides realize that and work to strengthen the sector in many ways. But CAW still doesn't offer up proposals to gut its own memberships' wages and benefits as a means of helping the company recover from its own errors, as you apparently think the TWU should.

So far, since Telus took over the old BCTel, Telus has attempted to unfairly, (illegally in my mind), interfere in the choice of unions workers wanted.

It continues to this day trying to interfere in union activities including the primary role of TWU representing it's own members.

Some one in Telus is obviously running a full time effort to divide the union membership.

That much of the dissident action arises in Alberta should be a surpirse to no one. TWU was initially a BC based union before it replaced the American controlled IBEW in Alberta through a fair and democratic vote, which incidently was forced on the workers by Telus.

It would seem Entwhistle is still pissed off he lost that tactical ambush.

It has used every delaying tactic known to avoid agreeing to a new contract five years after the last one expired.

SPARKYBOY, No, I'd say the Winnipeg General Strike would be my defining moment for labour in Canada.

And by the way, I have full respect for all workers whether thay carry a union card or not as long as they are not trying to screw their fellow workmates.

But back to the WGS. Here's a little history for you. A great many non-union workers joined with union members and returning soldiers following the visious and criminal attack by Winnipeg police, corporate goons and thugs and others, who were financed and controlled by the city business elite.

Under the trumped up allegations that Bolsheviks were taking over the city, mounted police and the goon squads attacked peaceful demonstrators.

Incidently, similar battles were being played out in cities across North America that year, including Vancouver and Seattle, but our educators have seldom offered students much in the way of accuracy when presenting the history of industrial relations on this continent.

Allan

Thanks for the history lesson, what happened during the Winnipeg strike was deplorable.

I guess I wasn't clear,my question to you was..

Do you think the actions of the union members that murdered replacement workers at the dispute at the mine in the NW Territories (I can't remember the name of the company, Peggy Witt was the CEO, she of course was demonized at the time the same way Darren Entwhistle is being demonized in this dispute) was deplorable?

A real simple question, any chance you could give us a yes or no answer and save the lefty/rhetorical babble for your old time socialist cronies.

Allan,

you have the most unique and selective history lesson i have ever seen anywhere--do you just pick and choose whatever "facts" you want.

even the lines: fair and democratic and forced on the workers by Telus are so far from the truth it doesn't even warrant a rebuttle (and if anyone put the truth here you would just call it a lie anyway as it would not support the TWU fairytale)

SPARKYBOY, thank you for the opportunity to clarify.

I had in the prior post, but alas, it was too long for Tyee's disgestive juices to accept.

You are right Peggy Witt or Ms. Piggy as I like to refer to her, was the boss. It was the Yellowknife Gold mine. But your grasp of the incident appears to slip once you correctly name your hero.

There was only one person convicted in that incident. Yes, he was a union member, but surely you aren't trying to distort the picture by suggesting the union supported his deadly activities or that others were involved?

By the way, as far as Ms. Piggy being "demonized" just like Darren Entwhistle, she still is in the minds of a great many Canadians who have ended up spending tens of millions of federal tax dollars cleaning up one of the most polluted mine sites ever closed in North America.

It seems that Ms. Piggy left for Seattle without first wiping herself when she completed her business in Yellowknife.

Oh and just to give you a bit better picture, let me remind you that Darren Entwhistle has been using the same pathetic Canada Labour Code as Ms. Piggy manipulated in her effort to also bust a union.

Just like Entwhistle (I'm going to call him Mr. Piggy so we can compare slop with slop), Ms. Piggy was found to have violated that labour code on various occassions during her charade at negotiating a new contract with the union.

Unfortunately, the Canada Labour Relations Board had its spine removed long ago so findings of wrongdoing seldom bring the proper punishment that say an individual worker might face without the protection of a union.

I trust you will find that answer satisfactory. If not, I've got lots of labour history to impart onto you and much of it does involve people who rightfully deserve to be demonized by workers and just about anyone else who calls themselves caring human beings.

Roguespear, either change your handle or sharpen up a bit fella.

Perhaps you might start by explaining how I pick and choose facts.

But I do appreciate that you think my history lessons are "unique." And they're free too.

You might just explain one other thing that makes absolutely no sense at all.

It's that "forced on the workers by Telus". line you picked.

Take your time, but lets get this right this time. The company and union are in negotiations for five years almost and both sides have agreed that if a stalemate has to be broken they will go to binding arbitration.

In labour relations that agreement is normally seen as a formal understanding that isn't toyed with unless someone wants to be called a liar, cheat, lout, bad-faith-bargainer or a lot of other nasty, but correct terms.

Then, out of the blue, one side says here's the last contract we are offering and if you don't like it too damned bad because we are going back on our arbitration agreement.

And then instead of offering it to the union for consideration it is presented to individual workers who are told it kicks into place tomorrow whether you accept it or not.

Now, I admit the description I paint above is in my colours, but perhaps you could clarify which part is "so far from the truth...."?

As I said, sharpen up a bit, take your time, but do try to grasp these minor complexities.

“BC Tel simply went to the CRTC and got a rate increase which forced us customers to pay for unrealistic wage and condition demands for them”

As Martha would say, “And that’s a good thing.” Without the higher wages and benefits received by union members like those in the TWU the rich would actually have to contribute to social programs that don’t directly benefit them. And everyone knows how willingly the rich part with, or share their wealth if they don’t profit in the process. Folks using our education, health care and other social service programs can be thankful some workers received the higher wages that, through taxes, paid for those services.

The alternative to the spin-offs from higher wages and benefits is what we are witnessing, within the education and healthcare system today, as a result of vanishing high wage jobs. Low wages equals low quality or no service.

As a regulated company, BC Tel, couldn’t “simply” waltz off to the CRTC for a rate increase. They had to substantiate their claim. Although increasing wage demands were a part of their claim, because management wanted more money, as well as the union, it was pressure from the corporate world, to reduce and “rebalance” fee structures that ultimately drove most of the need for higher rates.

At one time the corporate world, the high volume data and long distance telephone system users, paid the lion’s share of tele revenues (which is the way it should be)and residential service was very affordable. (Unfortunately most of the profits in those days were trucked south and contributed little to the local economy and social services)

But someone, after a little corporate arm-twisting, had a bright idea, “Let’s reduce long distance charges, restructure our local calling fees and introduce an endless chain of useless options (so it looks like the public still has choice and is getting a good deal) and that way we can help the corporate world by socializing the costs of providing telephone service!!"

It's hilarious seeing pictures of the UFCW supporting the TWU workers.

It was the UFCW that signed the sweetheart deal with the Real Canadian Superstore, for union jobs at $10/hr LESS than Safeway. So next time Safeway bargaining came around, guess what Safeway wanted? And yes, Safeway got it, after a long strike.

With friends like that, the TWU doesn't need enemies.

KWD; where do I begin. Let's try to keep it simple. The rich do pay for social services. 80% of taxes are payed by the top 20% in earnings. And if everyone made $20.00 per hour a hamburger would cost $20.00. I don't buy your economic theory.

Maxwell,

Sorry, I can't be here that often but here is my response to your question of how I would propose we take back our governments and our jobs.

Well there is never a simple solution although, look at what the CBC workers are doing; they're setting up a news broadcast of their own and even though at the moment that may seem futile I do not believe it is. They are self-empowing through community and positive action. It's about time the pussy Canadian citizens learned how to revolutionize their way of fearful thinking.

Telus members could start their own communicaitons business. Sell your Telus shares, use your union and your dues, mortgage your house, whatever! Take a risk that would be your own not some pyramid stock market that can crash at any time or some putrid corporate serf-maker that could Enron your pention overnight and is likely aiming for that anyway.

And start running as independent MPs and MLAs. Get rid of the party politics that give corporate money the opportunity to buy off our governments and run our world. Why wait for the day that these in-power governments will transform our eletoral system? Go run as an independent now. The more we have out there the better. It's the time for independence and revolution!

And Maxwell, I'm an artist so details are not my specialty, it's the image and vision that I'm better at so if you have power in detail you're valuable to the implimentation of new ideas.

Allan,

I'm sorry if the truth was a little too pointed and i should have given you your whole text:

this was not "forced" on the workers by telus, but a decision (108) by the CIRB, based on the CLC, Feb 2001. oh and it affected FOUR unions

and maybe you should look on the other side of the pointed rocks and see the truth about what is happening in Alberta

Roguespear, please go and sharpen up a bit as I suggested.

Frankly, I have no desire to look at conditions in Alberta where incidently, it appears that union members are being pressured on a continuous basis to cross the line and return to work.

In my mind the only thing worse than a scab is one who encourages another person to cross.

However, that isn't new. Alberta's labour mentality is about the same as Alabama's. Who ever works the cheapest gets the job.

The long and the short of the vote for one union is that quite a few of the Alberta members got their noses out of joint when their American IBEW union was booted out.

I realize an American union will cut a deal without membership approval so maybe you are cheesed off that the TWU is acting like a real union and fighting for its members rather than just chasing the dues.

Unfortunately, they don't teach much in the way of labour manners in Ralphie country, except how to sneak across a picket line, so some of those losers have been agitating against the TWU and aiding and abetting Telus management.

Now the ethics of that are about as tall as a steer pie, but as I stated earlier there is a tradition of Albertans eating their fellow workers going way back to the early coal mining era.

And, yes, I do know a bit about working conditions in Alberta. I worked the oil fields there likely before you were changing your own pants.

It is a brutal province for workers with government agencies that go to bat for managers against workers.

That's why, despite being a pathetic federal labour code covering your lockout dispute, TWU members are better off than they would be if Ralphie's Alberta Labour Code were the rule.

Besides, you are just trying to distract from the issue here. Your employer has been cited so often for unfair labour practices I understand the CLRB has a template with Telus' name engraved onto it.

Go back and tell your boss to negotiate in an open and honest way and to quit trying to play cute with the truth.

Allan; your criticism of Alberta really reviless how goofy your ideas are. Go there sometime,it's a golden jewel of opportunity.
When the NDP Govt. of the 90's was slapping moratoriums on mining, aquaculture and oil exploration, Alberta was busy building infrastructure which enabled them to cash in on present conditions. Not only that, the people of Alberta are hard working, independant and extemely freindly. I reaaly resent your flaky left wing views being used to judge Alberta. They care about everyone in their province, not just flaky socialists like your government did.

Ron, the only ones cashing in is the oil and gas industry. When farmers and ranchers interests come up against O&G they lose. When any interest, enviromental, tourist comes up against O&G they lose.

The province has approved drilling very dangerous sour(sulfer)gas wells close to 250,000 people in Calgary.

The number of homeless has increased dramatically over the last few years.

As to your comments describing Albertans:

Hard working - right, sitting on oil and gas is very hard

Independent - just keep the grants, royalty holidays and tax breaks coming.

Extremely friendly - just don't be from India, Africa, Gay or vegetarian

"They care about everyone in their province" hardly or the number of homeless would not be increasing and with a political party which has been in power for 33 years this is either incompetence or by design. Try living on minimum wage here.

mel; You are spreading misinformation to BC about Alberta. I know it's hard for you to admit to the success of Alberta because it goes against you negative, ill founded, goofy, stupid, lefy wing, socialist, very harmful, extreme, retarded, misguided, anti Klein, anti capitalist, anti happiness, anti everything views. Please give me a break and do not try to spread propoganda againt Alberta. It's the best place in the world. They pat teachers,doctors and teachers moe money than anywhere in Canada. You can't make a pig's ear out of a silk purse, no matter how stupid you think you audience is.

Ron Erwin, Yes there are lots of good people in Alberta, just like there are lots of good Iraqis, Afghans, North Koreans and even good Americans. Millions of them.

But that doesn't make the political atmosphere good and when the prime attitude appears to be I'm alright Jack, red-neckism, it does get a bit difficult noticing the human beings among the Ralphites.

Oh, I see Mel from Calgary has beat me to the punch on this one so you have a good day Ron and please stay away from the TWU picket lines.

Allan; I repeat mt response to Mel of Calgary to you but I will add this, onlt a true idiot would attempt to convince anyone with even half a brain ( TWU members ) that Alberta is not the best and most suuceesful place in the WORLD. period

From the Times-Colon ist, Aug 26th.”[Ralph Klein]The Alberta premier, who has made a public show several times before of telling Ottawa ‘"keep its hands off"’ his province's coffers, admitted that some might see the benefit in Alberta spreading its money around. But he warned that could easily change if oil prices fall and ravage Albertan prosperity.”

Pretty much sums up the political mindset in Kleinland

KWD; no answer, it's just so stupid.

To the coward named balance. Well I waited breathlessly for two days for the answer you said you would supply. In typical fashion a la Telus no response. I suppose your hubby does know to keep it zipped as he knows if he were to speak for himself his ass would be grass. Found your tale of the scab's history included time probably spent as bargaining unit member. You know, those early years when people try and get a start in life. I'm sure he really choked on those damn union benefits.

Hunter; you won't get a aswer from Balance, she left this site in disgust afew days ago, where have you been. I can hardly blame her for avoiding RUDE , IGNORANT, STUPID, RANTING, DISGUSTING, ARROGANT, people like you and other TWU supporters like you. Have a nice weekend if that's possible for you.

Ron, in 1985 the Alberta Heritage Trust Fund was valued at 12 billion dollars, twenty years later the value of the Heritage Fund is worth...12 billion dollars. Seems the Conservatives who have a reputation as money managers can't grow value in booming Alberta.

If you knew someone who won 6/49 and started giving you financial advice what would you say to them? You wouldn't give them much credence because of the circumstances around their wealth. Alberta is the big lottery winner in Canada sitting on coal, oil and gas. This makes it difficult for Alberta to influence national policy because Alberta did not work for this wealth.

To ron- I'm aware as to exactly why she didn't respond and why she "left". As to why she didn't respond to the original question(s) is obvious. Her position re this dipute is indefensible. As to why she ran for the hills- the facts from other posters were getting in the way.

The high temperature in Calgary a couple of days ago was 7 degrees celsius. God is obviously punishing Albertans for not having more good union members...... instead of the horrid, hapless, insensitive money mongers that populate the place.

Oh Allan, what did you do when you worked in the oilfields, just curious.....

Thought you'd never ask SPARKYBOY.

I worked as a roughneck in the Swan Hills area as well as north of the Rainbow Lake patch on a discovery well, which, if it discovered anything, it was after I was back drinking red-eyes in some South Edmonton bar. Way under age too.

I also worked the service rigs and did a lot of labouring on wellhead site cleanups etc.

Can you say young grunt work?

Ron Erwin. Hey man, count to ten or soemthing. Get a grip here.

Hey I agreee that Alberta is immensely sucessful, just like the prudent, and wise busines orient government in Saudi Arabia.

Following the discovery of oil in Leduc by Presto Manning's daddy Ernie, Alberta became the shining light of to the country. I'm sorry, I forgot that piece of Canadiana

hey irwin you have a lot of nerve calling a canadian the names you have been spewing here, you can almost hear the red neck deep south accent coming from under your pointy hat! But I guess you won't be responding until you are back on the job on monday morning eh. so you are pro ralph eh, the man is a drunk in my opinion a court reporter who doesn't ask how high when the american oil companies speak he just jumps.

Did you know that as long as the (moslty foreign) oil companies are doing a major project they are only paying 1% royalties, they also get a tax break don't know the details on that one but I am sure it is at the expense of the alberta taxpayer.

klein and el gordo are attending a meeting in sept in calgary with chaney, this meeting will be behind closed doors and has been arranged by the fraser institute who is happily taking big money from companies like exxon (300,000 last year alone?) to pay for their pro american anti canadian rhetoric.

These people are going to be discussing oil or the selling of our oil to a foreign state at our expense, we have enough oil and gas to supply our own needs at an affordable price but instead allow the price to be set on the u.s. stock market Is that smart, we will see how smart it is when prices go even higher, the fed is already talking about increasing interest rates to offset inflation caused by increased gas costs.

Gas is now over 5 dollars a gallon, costs money to drive to work reducing the money the average person has to spend on other items. This ronny will cost everyone in the long run.

Aricle 601 of nafta states that we cannot sell our natural resources to the yanks for more then we pay for it ourselves, this includes water btw.

Yes ronny you are a real einstein in your free market crap, higher oil and gas prices re deals like the drunks in alberta and here have made will definately help our economy and the poor will get lots of peanuts thrown to them. Yeh right, another good deal like your save on food arena, public money private profit! Eight billion dollars was funnelled into offshore accounts last year alone, was any of it yours ronny?

Several points up in the old interest rate and the average 433,000.00 home in victoria is a little expensive eh. Interest rates have and will go up again, fact of life.

Thought you would never ask Sparkyboy.

Can you say grunt work?

I worked as a redneck on a Shell discovery well north of Rainbow Lake, did duty on service
rigs around Swan Hills and toiled at labour where it occurred.

This is back in '64-'65.

Ok, memo to myself: stay off websites Saturday evenings.

Ron Erwin, the worlds first benevolent neocon!

I have to respond to comments by Ms. Balance.
Since you are not getting any info from your husband as to what is happening, why do you continue to comment on a topic you arent familiar?
The media wouldnt dare speak ill of a Corporation that spends millions on advertising, do you think that they are going to give both sides?
I dont feel bad for your husband the manager who has to work 12 hour days for 12 days a week at ALL. He has decided to work for a company that is trying to take away jobs from people just like you and I and move them to an impoverished nation for cheap labour. If you are so into researching this dispute please take the time to look over the offer at the TWU website. I think that you might find it quite interesting. The Media makes it look like we are out for money. We already make a great wage, I have no complaints at all. But would you sign a contract that pushes MANDITORY overtime at a managers discretion? Would you sign a bank loan that had the word ETC in it? I wouldnt. I'm not a lawyer yet But I know a lot better than to allow a company that type of flexibility with my personal life.
The bottom line is that the company FORCED that disgusting contract on us. We were ready and willing to negotiate when TELUS came in and said that it was no longer negotiating, have a good weekend. TELUS is inflexible about everything. The TWU is more than willing to negotiate, but TELUS couldnt find BARGAINING TABLE if it was given an IKEA catalog and a dictionary. It it TELUS not TWU that has three different cases stating "Unfair Labour practises" that the CIRB ruled against them. They are the ones that have been reporting record profits on a 50 year old contract yet reporting an inability to compete in today's marketplace. I am sure that a call center in the Phillipines is really going to help them compete. Again it is TELUS that accepted Binding Arbitration and then appealed it after it realized that the two contract offers would be looked at and split 50/50.
TELUS doesnt want to move on such things as Manditory over time, removal of rights that OUR Charter of rights and freedoms lays out for us, Ultimate power for managers and the ever comical ETC. The contract is laced with loopholes and contridictions.
If I were you I would talk my husband into finding another job as soon as possible. TELUS is a great company to work for but if this whole thing ends the way TELUS wants it to, you had best be willing to look for a beach front tiki hut in Manila.
Until then, they say that a picture is worth a thousand words... Better keep a picture of your husband close because we arent bending until our big picture gets a better look.

make 10,000 a month live in the best hotels like the ramada eat like a king does it sound like a good job. join the american security company watching the pickets seems like money is no object except for locked out workers good job if you can get one

duffy,

Thanks, but no thanks.

At my most desperate, I'd rather avail myself of the closest soup kitchen than rub against such specimens.

labourtalk.ca

seems ron e has been attacked by too many sealice (thread from fishfarming article). just blowing more smoke. everytime he can't come up with an actual fact he just creates one. of course, one should never let the facts interfere with one's opinion.......

Actually, the record profits referred to by the many posters is not coming from the wireline business at all. Telus is lucky to make any profit there at all. The profit's coming from wireless - full stop. The wireline business (almost exclusively in AB and BC) just isn't making that much money for Telus.

As for moving jobs offshore - how do you have someone in the Phillipines drive a truck to your house and install a phone line? Seems like a wee bit of a push on that one. The only jobs truly at risk of offshoring need to be specified (specifying installers is sort of moot - see point above).

This kind of makes one wonder why Telus is even in the wireline business. Maybe they should pull out, sell the wireline business to the employees that want it, and just make money with Telus Mobility.

Mel ; Imagine that Alberta was stupid enough to have elected an NDP government for the last 25 years. Would teachers, doctors and nurses be the highest paid in the country ? I doubt it.
There is more to Albera's success than simply oil in the ground. Imagine if they had to go through a moratormium on this and a moratorium on that like the BC NDP like to do. They would be back in the 1980's like B.C.
But I realize that the Liberal Party of Canada cannot touch Alberta's money, but by threatening such an idea they hope to flush out enough negative comments by Albertan's to bring up in the next Federal Election to split Canada into West vs. East.
Meanwhile they are busy rearranging their infrastructiue to accomodate the new reality.
" Reality " that's a word for the TWU to understand.

you know the more you post the more rediculous you sound, a bloody dog could have been running the province of alberta and it would still be in the shape it is in today.

Can you read windfall oil profits, mind you the dog might have had the honesty or sense to make sure that the average albertan didn't get screwed by the oil companies that are really running the place.

Do you think a smart honest leader would have given the deals to the oil companies that ralphy handed out? The oil companies are only paying 1% in royalties as long as they have a major project on going.

People are getting killed at horrendus rates on highway 63 because the government and the oil companies are in a pissing match over who should pay for the twinning of highway 63. Oil companies say government because they are creating so many jobs government says oil companies, such nice big tax and royalties breaks.

I doubt if the NDP would have Alberta in as good shape as they are in today. I can feel the jealosy that the left has for Alberta's success. The average Albertan already doesn't pay the nasty 7% provincial tax. They soon will have the choice of eliminating income tax or possibly free secondary education.
This is no accident. I know it's a talking point of the left to claim that ut's all about oil and any fool could have success in Alberta. But, lets remember the moratorium that the NDP put on offshore oil exploration, mining and aquaculture. We could have been doing almost as well if we didn't have a brain fart and elect sosialists to run this Province during the 90"s. God bless Alberta on their 100th birthday. Everyone in the Maritimes should move there and get a job and get off of EI.As far as highway 63 is concerned, the fact that there is even an argument about who will pay for infrastructure is a good thing. We don't even have a chance for such debates as nothing is happening here.

Oh c'moon Ron. Everytime oil has skyrocketed the goverment in power has done well with the provinces finances. Don't try do make it out that Klein is some kind of genius. You've heard the saying, "Right place, right time."

It's a shame though that we still have to wait 8 hours to have a broken arm fixed at the emergency room. It's a shame that we still have class sizes over 30 students. It's still a shame that we still have so many homeless and family's are going without food.

I am not jealous like I said a dog could have been in power and alberta would still be where they are, maybe even better off. The NDP were reacting to the people who were fed up with the exploitations of a bunch of used car salesman.

This was still back when we had a reasonably free press and we were actually concerned about lakes like Pinchi filled with mercure etc. The moratorium was a good thing, the mining companies like Placer were raping and running, leaving the tax payers to clean up.

You say nothing is happening here and yet el gordo has been in power for how long, what about all those tax payer financed feel good ads leading up to the last election, you know the ones saying how B.C. is leading in job growth and all the other lies.

God bless alberta, excuse me are you some kind of right wing evangelical christian here to save us all and rape the planet for ever cent you can grab in your life time, leaving nothing for our kids, all in the twisted belief that JC is going to show up and save your ass from the air you won't be able to breath.

I have worked at Syncrude, Suncor, Albion Sands etc a lot, and the first thing you get when you haven't been there for awhile (a few months) is a sinus infection which often turns into a lung infection. They call it the Syncrude Flu, the Suncor Malady etc. It is from the coke dust and the sulfer dioxide, you can't walk through most areas in the plants when they are running or you could end up very sick or dead, most definately fired.

and why would I be jealous have you been there lately, quality of life isn't what it used to be, it is hard not to be exposed to major pollution no matter where you live.

Is there some reason anyone is responding to Wwood? He's just pushing buttons while he gets the company propaganda out there. No media are reporting on this strike, except when Telus wins some injunction request in the courts. Hasn't anyone questioned why CanWest and other outlets give us endless, daily updates on strikes when teachers or nurses or truck drivers are involved but nada on this? Because teachers and nurses and truck drivers don't buy millions of dollars worth of ads every year, that's why.
Go ahead and have fun with Ron Erwin; he's just a cranky neocon with far too much time on his hands who, deep down, is thrilled with any attention he gets. But Wwood, who refers to the Telus CEO as "Darren" in his posts? The guy is being paid to have a presence here, and every word he writes is straight out of the Telus playbook. Let's just ignore him, all of us, for good. After he realizes there's no point in corresponding with Ron Erwin and the few other rightist attention seekers, he'll go away. And even if he doesn't he'll be cheesed but good, and we can all have that little satisfaction.
Cheers!

Oh, and an addition a couple of hours later: the same should definitely go for "Balance", a Telus management type, I'm told on pretty good authority. Whatever, look at the rhetoric and make your own mind up. He's repeating every single statement ever made by top Telus brass since months before the lockout. By the way, I am not a union member (of any kind) or employee of Telus, but I am related (sort of) to two people who USED TO work there. Let's just ignore these "Mouths of Sauron". Off with their heads.

And if you can endure one more post, me being a night owl and relative newcomer and having finally read all the posts here, I'd like to add "upanatem" to that list. He's probaby the Telus CEO himself. But "sparkyboy" and "roguespear"? Just your run-of-the-mill anti-union loudmouths who can only dream of getting Telus Internet-campaign money.
And Ron, don't bother telling me that your companion-in-arms, "balance", is a she and not a he; that was a simple error that I just caught in rereading. Have a great day!

cookie, no, sorry can't endure one more post, it's only an unoriginal B.C. left wing tirade based on emotion rather than logic. Logic would ask " why can't the TWU members be given the opportunity of having a SECRET , democratic, vote on the Telus offer ? " Without the union goons breathing down their neck ? Yes, I said UNION GOONS. I know they exist as I have been assaulted by them.

yeh right ronny if you really had been assaulted then you would have pressed charges and we would all know about it as you seem like the type who would litigate, the only time in recent history some one has been assaulted during a labor dispute in B.C. was at Port Alberni.But then you are not a local are you!

A security guard brought in from edmonton was wearing camo and yelling in a old tradesman's face taunting him and the guy smoked him when he had had enough, seems the security guard was not so tough and he fell down with one shot, from a guy in his late fifties or so it looked on the news! He definately wasn't young.

What might I ask were you doing to piss someone off to the point that they would assault you if this actually happened? I have no sympathy for people who cross picket lines taunting the workers who are so determined they are in the right that they go on strike or are locked out by a greedy corporation.

Remember folks - your good old phone line is going the way of the dinosaur. Claiming Telus is making its profit with the incumbent services in BC and AB is just being blind. If Telus was truly greedy, they'd sell off the wireline business in AB and BC and focus on wireless. It could happen, with the loosening of foreign ownership rules! Then you'd be stuck with an even tougher employer - Shaw.

To dopey ron re vote- I'm wondering why the need for a vote is necessary. telus imposed their "offer" so why go thru the motions. Is it because they are looking for some phony mandate for same. Throughout this entire vote charade they haven't said what they would do if a vote were held and the "offer" were turned down. Let me answer for you- they would impose the terms. There you go- full circle- exactly what we have now. For someone who pretends to be in the know, you would obviously know that one of the clauses in the "offer" reads "the Company agrees to recognise the Union as the sole collective bargaining agency for the employees covered by this agreement"(Telus wording). So why then do they(Telus) refuse to bargain their "offer" with the TWU? Sounds like the mouth and brain at Telus HQ aren't connected.

Another correction for ron the pretender- when a vote with the TWU is taken re strike vote, ratification vote, election of officers at the local level or at convention level they are done by secret ballot. Guess you've missed a few meetings lately.

Hunter; if you are telling me the truth, I am happy to hear that.

Well thanks for a lucid response. If you are in the know as you pretend to be re this dispute by Telus you would know that it is the truth.

Ron Erwin, I cannot beleive that your vision of a trade union in 2005 is an agency where votes are held in public.

Thank you Hunter for giving this fool some info he should have known before he began his rant on this issue.

The reality is Ron, that union votes are normally far more democratic than your local municipal, provincial or national elections simply because they cannot be influenced unfarly by outsiders like the National Citizens Coalition, neighbourhood pub owners associations or your local building developers, etc., etc., etc.

That's nice to here allan.

Well cookie, I must rebut.
I guess you got me. How terribly strange that anyone would refer to Darren as….Darren. Surely I must be one of his minions or a close relative. Or it could be that I remember his broadcast messages to the company before he was gagged with a communication ban by the TWU. Remember, “hello team it’s Darren”. Maybe you ignored them.
Since you have gone back and read all of the posts you will see that I have carefully shown (with documented proof) that Darren’s (there I go again) full compensation information stacked against his peers (including shaw) is merely average. I have also pointed out that the current offer that many of you are choosing to ignore would place twu members at the very top of heap as measured against your peers. This includes not only financially but job security language as well. I have also shown that the old contract and the new contract all contain the words ‘at managements discretion” so this should be nothing new to anyone. I have also asked the question, “why would TELUS publicly invest in a call center in the Philippines if they intended to outsource jobs there. They could have done this under the radar to any number of countries for the last number of years. Off shore call centers are not a new phenomena. Neither are near shore call centers (Canada) I also pointed out that TELUS workers are the benefactor of other Telcos outsourcing jobs to us and over 300,000+ other providers in Canada. The people I was responding to would have all those jobs go back to their place of origination at Canada’s expense. Yet you wear signs saying keep jobs in Canada.
By the way if you check out teamtelus.com you will see all of the media updates not sure what stations you are turning to. Did it ever occur to you that if it is getting less coverage than other strikes it may be because it is having less impact?
Lets see what else, oh yeh, I also talked about members becoming informed because it appears that the leadership is struggling for anything innovative that will get them back to work. It may be a good idea to ensure that one has all of the facts so that you do not leave all of the very critical decisions to people who may not be acting in everyone’s best interests or in keeping with the times. But that’s everyone’s choice. It’s just a suggestion.
Hey man, go ahead and ignore me, you are ignoring everything else that doesn’t fit within your parameters.
If you think that you are making me ‘cheesed but good’ and that will give you all a ‘little’ satisfaction. If I say I am cheesed will you promise to go away? You’re really not adding any value anyway. That may be the problem at work as well?

I am new here, and happen to be one those guys who believe it is important for people who work at places like Telus to be able to make wages that you can raise a family on. Here is my problem, if I follow the advice of the TWU I end up supporting directly or indirectly Bell, Shaw, or Rogers. I know for a fact that none of these jokers treat the staff near as well as Telus does. So my question is where does that leave me? Where should I take my business? Is there somewhere TWU suggests?

I also wonder how the TWU will win this one. Last Saturday eve, following the advice from a friend who works for Telus, and is on strike, I called for service after hours to test what would happen. Within three minutes I was connected to someone, someone I might add that works for a non-union call center in Montreal. He was very happy about the strike and said it was good business for them back east. Obviously it is not just overseas but even in Canada jobs will be lost to Canadians from regions with greater unemployment like Quebec.

Where does this go from here ?

None of the people changing from telus are happy about. i wasn't happy. it is required as a short term strategy. With a drop in net new income and net new dsl subscribers financial analysts will become more caution in thier outlook for telus stock. yes telus will try to prop up share price with thier stock buy back. Don't worry, once this is behind us there will be a great flurry of winback offers for customer lost during this lockout.

Telus will be able to afford to do almost anything with all the millions of dollars they are saving during this longggggggg strike.

nice of w.wood to give a web site that that only T.W.U members can access but we already know that the offer would devastate the union maybe he or she could give the public at large a website they could access then they might understand the company spin & dribble and the garbage you seem to spew all the time

wwood new at this computer stuff did manage to access site but still same old garbage

Maybe you could be more specific.
What about the offer is garbage?
I take it by "same old" you have seen it before?
What specifically would you change?
How do you think it compares overall with similar union agreements in the Canadian or US communications industry?
What spin and drivel are you reffering to?

The following is from the World Socialist Web Site. It seems our TWU is just a bit too narrow in their focus:

"Since the walkout began, the extent of the union leadership’s efforts to widen the struggle has been a radio campaign asking Telus customers to cancel their extended phone features, i.e. to avoid “hurting” the company too much. In the words of TWU vice-president Peter Massy, “Telus is out of line and out of control. This company needs to be reined in by the consumers and law-makers of this country.”

Massy’s words encapsulate the dead-end into which the limited, nationalist perspective of trade unionism has brought workers. Faced with an all-out assault on his members’ jobs, the most the latter-day trade union bureaucrat can do is to issue timid appeals to consumers and to the supposedly enlightened politicians of the big business Liberal Party.

In every country and in every sector of production, the defence of the jobs, wages, pensions and working conditions of workers requires a new strategy based on an international socialist program. Instead of subordinating their demands to the requirements of the market and the profit demands of this or that section of big business, workers must combine militant industrial action with a political struggle aimed at bringing to power a workers’ government so that economic life can be radically reorganized to meet the needs of the working class and society at large. Vital industries such as telecommunications should be placed under public ownership and subject to the democratic control of the international working class."

Looks like the struggle should broaden. Or do Canadians (anywhere in this great country) truly desire that?

Socialist's suck.

You're missing the point, Ron. Do the members of the TWU truly want to engage in the broader struggle that international unionists (socialists) desire? From my point of view, I don't think that the TWU workers are any more socialist than the Telus managers and professionals. (Hey - all Canadians are equally socialist and capitalist at the same time, let's not get tangled in labels). However, the extremist side of the union does have a point because in order to be truly effective at negotiating a better deal, the workers have to broaden the fight beyond Telus. I don't think that people want to restructure our society any more than they have to.

Bemused; Sorry, no public support for TWU or the machinist's taking a strike vote against Boeing today.

Be that as it may, Ron, but all Canadians are a bit socialistic. Labels, however, are beside the point. I think what the extreme perspective is saying is that unions in Canada aren't willing to undertake fundamental changes to society. And I think that the average TWU worker doesn't want to revolutionize society - they want a good job that's reasonably secure (they know that nothing is guaranteed) and will help to support their families and provide a decent quality of life. Do they want to change the Canadian system? I doubt it. That's why the TWU will lose this labour showdown.

Sounds to me like the TWU is living in the past.

Well.. if it isn't ole "can't-spell-lockout-so-I'll-spell-strike" Erwin still flapping his elitist gums! I was quite amused to scan your histrionics: "I know it's hard for you to admit to the success of Alberta because it goes against you negative, ill founded, goofy, stupid, lefy wing, socialist, very harmful, extreme, retarded, misguided, anti Klein, anti capitalist, anti happiness, anti everything views." (Careful Mel... you almost made him hit you with his purse!) "You negative?" "Lefy wing" Erwin? I know.. I know.. you have someone who can spell do all your grunt work for you hey? And someone who can think.. And someone who can feel? But they're LOCKED OUT aren't they Erwin? Too bad.. sooooo sad!!!

That wasn't a "little pebble" that hit your windshield and spread it into a giant crack Erwin... That was God telling you what a moron you are!!! An intelligent person would know to take his Mercedes in to have the windshield fixed before it had to be replaced... But of course, it's always easier to replace something valuable instead of fixing it isn't it Erwin? Oh to have enough money that one doesn't need brains or conscience... Well.. no.. on second thought... I'd rather have the brain and the conscience... You can lose your money and status... And in any event, you can't take it with you when they're planting daisies in your.. um.. crack... ed windshield..

And Woody Hon.. your music has stopped and your monkey's burnin'... (Is your frustration anything more than a nicname that refuses to evolve into a reality yet?)

Silken

Always entertaining to read your ramblings Silken (projectbaldness) Come on over to http://www.labourtalk.ca

There are some excellent topics to discuss. Lot's of readers finding out the real issues without any fear of reprisal.

While I don't expect to see you or your blitherings over there because you are afraid to be challenged in public. I only need to look at your posts above to know that you would not want to propigate those ramblings on many moe public forums as they expose you for what you really are. But you can use a different name to protect your idiocy.

Sears has a good sale on winter wear. You may want to stock up. Or do you shop there as they outsource some of their customer care functions.

Awwww Woody... you sound...soooo... mad! Do I make ya mad Woodmeister?

And was that a command you accidentally inserted about projecting your baldness? Is that what makes you mad? In this day of hair transplants and even medications, one would think you could get a nice lil mix of valium and hair-growth regeneration for your morning cocktail. A kind doctor would even throw in a dash of Viagra so you can live up to your name.

I see you not only projected your baldness but your fear as well. Really Woody!!! There is nothing to be afraid of.. the big bad TWU is gonna fix everything up real nice and pretty soon, you will be enjoying the same benefits as those who sacrificed for them... at least for a little while!

So am I scared to be challenged by a lil scared bald guy who wrote: "you would not want to propigate those ramblings on many moe public forums"? It's not "propigate" Woody.. it's "propagate"... and it's not "moe" Woody... it's "more"... Yah.. gee... I dunno.. I better be REALLY worried about arguing with a scared, bald guy who can't spell and feels so impotent that he has to identify himself with a nic that pretty much says it all!

I usually enjoy a good debate with my equals Woody... Until you can at least learn how to use your spell-checker, you might want to argue with the grade 2 or 3's that can at least understand why you are eternally "Hooked on Phonics"...

Don't take on more than you can handle Woody! And do something about that attitude will ya?

Silken

Keep slimin' thim....Silken

U Da 1 ....LOL

Whoops frgt 2 spl chk agn