Not that I am any fan of the Liberal government at all, lewis, but I find it rather unfair to completely blame the BC government. After all, on Aug. 27, the Vancouver Sun reported that the Ktunaxa Kinbasket Tribal Council diverted federal money for health and welfare to prop up a failing resort project (Tribal council diverted federal cash to failing resort project). You can't point the finger at the BC government while a Tribal Council is diverting funds for health & welfare for vulnerable First Nations individuals away from where it's most needed. It's obvious that First Nations individuals need to try to reform their own government as well.

The Ktunaxa Kinbasket TC may have diverted money. However, consider the pressures and logic. As everyone ought to know by now, but one of the determinants of health, is sufficient community economic opportunities. Otherwise, an economically depressed population becomes fodder for the medical services industry. Successful economic ventures can in time provide healthier alternatives to risky lifestyles for young people. The KKTC is doing what it can to intervene in the cycle of poverty. Increased health spending on preventable diseases is a symptom, not a success, of a population in distress.

I only blame the bc liberals for 95% of what's wrong with bc now, may. And I agree with you that funds targetted for health and welfare should go to health and welfare, not tax cuts, and not economic projects. Tj, I'm sorry, but what you're saying is exactly the same type of argument the bc liars use, and service industry jobs provide only low wages that do not lift communities out of poverty. They do line the pockets of elites, however. It seems to me that natives are often abused by their elites; of course, we all know where they learned that from: mainstream white culture. Are the Ktunaxa Kinbasket TC shareholders in the profits and the risks of the resort, or are they simply giving funds away to private developers, could either of you, may or tj, clarify this please?

lewis, unfortunately I don't know to whom the funds were diverted to by the KK TC. It seems to be another unfortunate instance, as you wrote, of people in positions of authority abusing that authority. However I find your statement that such dishonest was learned from "mainstream white culture" as at the very least bigoted in nature. Every people has its (un)fair share of dishonest individuals and claiming that any people in particular are responsible for the evils of the world is, quite frankly, repugnantly racist.

KJ, funds for health and welfare should be used for that purpose. I agree that helping to ensure the prosperity of a community will help increase the health and welfare of that community, but I strongly disagree that a resort would be the best way to go about this. Encouraging First Nations people to own and operate their own business ventures would help ensure that the wealth is generated by the people themselves who are simultaneously their own bosses, instead of simply working at a resort where they are someone else's employees.

it is their resort

May, I said mainstream white "culture," not the majority of white people, and it is that culture of mindless profits and capitalism that is killing us all. And I agree that all peoples have their dishonest individuals, but I don't think that contending that one culture's ideologies are destructive is rascist; it is simply an historical fact the ingrained mainstream white culture of endless economic growth no matter who gets hurt is destructive...and there are a lot of inherent dishonesty and lies in this stance no matter how innocently the ideology is learned.

"As everyone ought to know by now, but one of the determinants of health, is sufficient community economic opportunities." wrote KJ, who actually has a clear enough vision, uncluttered by racial self-righteousness, that he gets it. There are more pressures on native people, than May is capable of getting, in her relatively priviledged circumstances.

Good on you, KJ.

When you are poor, the needs of the belly over-ride all other considerations. Never been there, have you May? Had you, you would understand exactly what KJ is saying.

Not a real surprise here, but it is tragic. I feel reality lies closer to Lewis's standard than to May's, which unfortunately seems only to cast the net wider in redirecting the blame. Like many cultures worldwide that have been oppressed, splintered, cursed and ridiculed by a more dominent culture the natives of northern BC, who haven't already been lost to television and other culture distractions, may well take more risks than comfortable middle-class urban moms. There are all kinds of reasons why human beings living on economically-depressed rural reserves might do so and they all have something in common, extreme poverty and social/cultural breakdown. While May is right that the government isn't the only guilty one here, it does rankle me that May would stoop to the same base line she argues Lewis has stepped down to. May, I am concerned why you would reach for the story of troubles in the Ktunaxa Kinbasket Tribal Council's use of health funds to keep it's local resort afloat to suggest it might be linked to the fate of first nations individuals in northern BC. The KKTC represent Indian bands in B.C.'s southwest corner. It is somewhat removed from northern BC. The issues represent problems for individuals from widely different first nations. This leaves me, after reading your post, wondering if you thought perhaps the one thing the two distinct Indians groups had in common was - - - -? May, you have just tossed people from two different nations and regions into the same hopper to find your villain Now, to me that's ''quite frankly, repugnantly racist.''

Hey folks its not a native white thing, it is and has always been a have and have not Issue, drugs and all societies ills are symptoms off a bigger problem. If you have enormous Wealth you mush also have enormous poverty. Our free market capitalist system is the most inequitable the world have ever seen. .If your not pissed off, You not paying attention, The media, government of the day and top corporations are all Imbedded and need to be deconstructed. More for the many means less for the few and the few Will never tolerate that. .Just the numbers folks Just the numbers folks Special data calculations done by Statistics Canada for the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives show deep and abiding inequalities in the distribution of wealth in every region of Canada, but especially in British Columbia. The provincial tabulations requested (and paid for) by the CCPA, based on the recent Survey of Financial Security,1 indicate BC is home to both the highest average wealth in Canada and the largest gap between the richest and poorest households. The BC data show that the wealthiest 10 percent of family units held 54.6 percent of the province's personal wealth at last count (compared to 53 percent nationally), and the top 50 percent controlled an almost unbelievable 95.7 percent of the personal wealth (compared to 94.4 percent nationally). That left only 4.3 percent of the wealth for the bottom 50 percent of British Columbian family units

Stuart, you are right and wrong. Yes, the real cause is capitalism's fundamental greed factor, but disproportionately it is the natives and others who can be exploited because of poverty and social breakdown that are the ones who inveribly suffer the most. You are also right that individuals who are strung out on drugs or have other social ills are the canaries in the community's mine shaft. As a white guy, I too would like to think it isn't ''us'' who are the exploiters, but the evidence suggests otherwise. I'm sure many capitalists don't particularly care who they exploit, but so far I haven't seen much to confirm that they will try to exploit anyone other than those who can't response. In my little world that puts first nations people far more likely to be exploited than members of an ethnc group out of, say, the English midlands or central Germany.

Good points Allen, I think you have misinterpreted me. The top 10 % of income earners are usually (99 % of the time ) Rich white men. History has always proven this, minority groups and women especially natives have Been the major victims of this system. My points were that the myth of a huge middle class and progressive society are just that myths. There are a few making a enormous amounts of capital and the rest of us feeding on the crumbs. The media will distract us and divide us from the real issue, income disparity. What I'm advocating is that native and minority groups, women's rights groups etc are our brothers , we should set our sights on BC's Most beautiful, their easy to find , check out the different deals being made and who is behind them. The rulers Numbers are small, they hide behind the media and divisive issues to distract us from their enormous wealth.

KJ: "it is their resort" - all well and fine if the people receive equal benefits from it. Or can the people working there only hope to be employees working for a wage?

Coyote: What "priviledged circumstances" are you talking about?? You don't know anything about me but you are making assumptions (which are completely wrong btw). You are just another cookie-cutter bigot, aren't you?

ls: "Mainstream" implies the majority of people. "the ingrained mainstream white culture of endless economic growth no matter who gets hurt is destructive." - How is that 'white' culture by any stretch of the imagination? Isn't that global corporate culture, which is practiced by Africans, Asians, Europeans? It does sound racist to me.

allan - I had thought that the KKTC was further north than it apparently is, and considering that the TC had misappropriated funds for "health and welfare" I was expressing concern about how people in positions of authority were abusing that authority to the detriment of the people who relied upon them. But, read whatever you want into it that you want - it wasn't meant as racially motivated in any way and in all likelihood you probably knew that.

I agree with May's last comment- it IS global corporate culture, and whether is began in a pre-dominantly "white" (geez, I hate that term) culture or not, it is all over the world and people of all races are sucking it up as fast, and in some cases, faster, than us whities ever did.

Again, I meant no disrespect to any racial group, white, native, asian or otherwise. But it is an historical fact that white capitalist culture now adopted by mainstream asian society as well, does not care who gets hurt, and that the means justifies the end has ever been it's motto. This ethic is especially used under the auspices of neoliberals, like gordon campbell and transnational neoliberal groups like the wto to disproportionally attack societies and cultures less irrevocably wedded to neoliberalism's baneful, destructive tenets like emerging african nations and all other third world countries, usually begun by demanding privatization of water, which is then sold back to impoverished peoples.

May, I have indicated nothing but profound sympathies for natives, and having worked with many natives in the workplace, I am well aware that the average native can work the average white person into the ground, and in general I like and respect natives very much, and wish only the best for them. But I find your charge of being racist (against my own race?!) a little bit silly...

Ohhh, we know you well enough, May. Better than I care, actually.

"... it is all over the world and people of all races are sucking it up as fast, and in some cases, faster, than us whities ever did..." says Fi.

We came to it on our own and first, over a long period of social evolution, and particular historical circumstances, all of which lit the furnace fires and kick started the mechanized production processes of the English Industrial Revolution of, especially the 18th and 19th centuries (17th?). Most of the rest of the world is coming to our "corporatist capitalism" model through our experience, and aye, our brutality delivered onto "lesser" peoples, and out of the legacy of that, sheer desparation on their parts, to escape their victimhood.

I think what most of them are failing to see, however, as my own "cut and paste" opinion :D, is, that this social order of our legacy is become, in the late stage of its development, a "parasitic" social model, rapidly depleting its "natural world" host, and through the instrument of its major "carrier", or "champion" if you will, the Great Empire U.S.A., the bringer of the greed of the "One True and Holy Free Market", war and gross global inequity, increasingly even at home, as much as abroad. Iraq, Palestine and the entire Middle East experience however, is serving as a great teacher to one and all who have missed the point. For me, it is simply an affirmation of what I already knew of the "contact" history of North American "native" culture, learned from Vietnam, up close and personal, and my personal working class experience.

You seek to be too intellectually cute by half, May. "Empathy" is your word to study for the day. Understand its manifold linkages and subtleties, and it will make you a more intellectually "rounded" person. (Though you are living proof that women are certainly no more perfect, than we mere mortal males.:)

May, all I can read into it is what you put into it. Now it would appear you are determined to continue to raise allegations against the KKTC in regard to its health and welfare funds. You acknowledge you had little or no idea where the KKTC is based when you used this ''example'' to show how a health crisis at the opposite end of the province is certainly not the responsibility of the province. So does that mean there are misappropriations of funds in the north and, if so, is there a conspiracy between KKTC and northern bands or is there some other linkage here May that you haven't yet clarified?

"...or is there some other linkage here May that you haven't yet clarified?" wrote Allan.

And that is the concluding point, Allan. And I think we are beginning to catch a glimpse of where the answer to that question leads; the writhing snakepit of a neocon mindset.

Everyone knows all men are the same, and women, of course. So it follows that all Indians are the same as well. And Niggers. And Chinks.

Whites on the other hand, deserve some special sympathetic understanding.

The Devil isn't only in the details. He also hunkers down in the tall grass between the lines.

Cookie cutter bigot? :-D Another example of the pot calling the kettle black here, in this lady.

ls: "I find your charge of being racist (against my own race?!) a little bit silly..." For some bizzare reason, I find Europeans - like yourself, apparently - strangely prone to self-hatred and guilt based upon the actions of people decades or hundreds of years ago. I don't think people are responsible for the acts of other people.

Coyote: The statement "Ohhh, we know you well enough" could've come straight out of the mouth of any card-carying KKK member. 'Congratulations.' By the way, what you don't know about me would fill volumes. It's amusing that you've apparently come up with all these preconceived notions of who I am when I'm sure you're absolutely dead wrong. Have fun with your racist fantasies.

allan: The issue as I see it is government and First Nations health. Shouldn't both the federal/provincial and FN governments equally share responsibility for FN health and welfare? Why you (and others) are seemingly so hell-bent upon misrepresenting my concern over the BC and FN governments' apparent shortcomings over FN health issues is beyond me.

Hey Coyote and May, take a time out and say sorry. We must recognize who our allies are and Respect their points of view. Name calling and accusing the other of being racist is non Productive and frankly drives people away from progressive movements and gets us no where. Just the facts 1) The ruling class has been dominated by Rich White Men, this is a very small And concentrated group. The majority of white guys and others are loaded with Dept and live in sometimes unbearable conditions. 2) Wealth in the west was won by mass Relocation and genocide of native peoples to pull the resources out of the land. Slaves were Brought in to do the heavy labor. Natives still experience huge racism today and the media Loves to scare us and divide the population. The ruling 10 % set the rules, control the media and The agenda, their only goal is to maintain their wealth. While we argue amongst ourselves BC's Most beautiful make out like bandits. We should have clear goals.\ 1) How do we democratize the media. 2) How do we make coalitions, (labour , business , minority groups, women's groups, Seniors) 3) How do we change the was our system operates. 4) How do we expose the real enemies and fight back. 5) How do we bring down the NeoLiberal Agenda. Folks its better to be productive than just interesting.

May, if I misunderstood your comments or concerns I do apologize. However, you should be careful when you turn to examples of waste and or abuse to make a point. I suspect you are writing from a first nations viewpoint given your responses to some of the reactions your writings prompted. Unfortunately when you throw up allegations against one first nations group to try to clarify or explain why first nations people in another region are hurting, the first impression is that you are trying to spread that blame across an entire people. I now realize that wasn't your intent, but I worked in the media in BC long enough to know that if you raise an allegation against first nations there will be a chorus of red-necks warbling and distorting your comments. As Stuart correctly notes above, this only serves to help that small group of wealth holders who depend on constant battling from within to defeat its opposition.

Still don't like what I see-, Stuart, whatever race of convenience she wears. I've worked with Whites I liked, and whites I didn't like. And I've worked with Indians I liked and those I didn't like. We can only go by the face she shows us here-, which ain't been pretty so far. White,Native, or Green with Yellow Polka Dots, and mostly I smell buffalo shit, she still needs to learn some "balance".

Which puts me outta here. I know a dead-end when I sees one. :-) Regards. Catch y'all in a few days.

There will be pie in the sky when ya die.

Here's my take on what the health agreement means for British Columbia: 'Major step' in health care is in the two-tier direction The Vancouver Sun Fri 01 Oct 2004 Thursday, in The Vancouver Sun, federal ministers Ujjal Dosanjh and David Emerson wrote that Prime Minister Paul Martin and the premiers took "a major step in strengthening our country's treasured system of health care" with the their recently-signed agreement. I disagree. While an additional $41 billion over the next 10 years is an impressive sum, and the objectives are laudable, I believe first ministers have taken another step down the road to two-tier health care. Contrary to Dosanjh's pre-conference rhetoric, Martin and the premiers did not even address the issue of private clinics. Movement toward a parallel system of health care for the well-off will accelerate because of a separate agreement the prime minister and the premier of Quebec signed at the end of the conference. Dosanjh and Emerson maintain this separate agreement is not without precedent and it will simply allow Quebec to meet common objectives in a manner "keeping with its unique circumstances." However, there's nothing unique about illness and death in Quebec. In truth, only one thing distinguishes health care in Quebec from the rest of the country -- the number of private clinics operating in that province. Quebec has also been the leader in the provision of private MRIs, which allow people who can afford the procedure to jump the queue through earlier discovery of any diseases that require surgery. None of this is unknown to the prime minister, whose personal physician is the largest provider of private medicine in Quebec. Nor would it surprise veteran public servants advising Dosanjh and Emerson -- both new to Ottawa. Since 1984, when the Canada Health Act was enacted, Quebec has not recognized the validity of a federal law in an area it claims as exclusive provincial jurisdiction. No federal government has ever enforced the provisions of the law in Quebec. Instead, the Liberals have preferred to wage successive election campaigns against Alberta, which spends more on health care per capita than any province in the country. The parallel system in Quebec will be consecrated because of the separate agreement signed at the first ministers' conference. Moreover, notwithstanding the arguments of the federal health and industry ministers in The Sun, that separate agreement constitutes a gathering danger to national unity. Emerson and Dosanjh insist that Quebec signed the main agreement everyone else signed, and has accepted national objectives. However, the focus in Quebec has been almost exclusively on the second agreement -- a two-page document titled "Asymetrical [sic] Federalism That Respects Quebec's Jurisdiction." In it, the "A" term is defined as "flexible federalism that notably allows for the existence of specific agreements and arrangements adapted to Quebec's specificity." It's in that spirit -- indeed, almost as a quasi-revolutionary breakthrough -- that the media have enthusiastically greeted the health accord: The rest of Canada has finally recognized Quebec's specificity. Now, expectations are running high for more of the same in future -- starting with a separate agreement that would give Quebec a role in international affairs. No doubt looking to increase their support in Quebec -- and untroubled by the contradiction in forming a majority government by electing MPs from a province that would increasingly be exempted from federal powers -- Martin's ministers have done nothing to dampen the giddiness. The Liberals are not the only party trolling for votes. NDP leader Jack Layton says he's always supported asymmetrical federalism for Quebec. At the same time, he criticizes the agreement for not addressing the "growth of private delivery" -- overlooking the fact that there are more private clinics in that province than in Alberta, and that Quebec Premier Jean Charest has already said that in the first year of this new accord Ottawa's money will go to reducing provincial taxes. Opposition leader Stephen Harper supports the health agreement because the first ministers also recognized "that an asymmetrical federalism allows for the existence of specific agreements for any province." Dosanjh and Emerson don't mention this. But it's one more reason British Columbians concerned about the growth of two-tier medicine here should be worried about the agreement these two are touting.

And just what the hell does the above post have to do with hiv rates in northern bc thanks to gordon liar's regressive policies, norm? I note that moe has found another job in television where you have not; perhaps it has something to do with your cowardly refusal to enter into real debate where you do not have a forum advantage, and also your timorous behavior in ducking your critics....I fear that norman spector is increasingly becoming the specter of norman...

"I don't think people are responsible for the acts of other people." Duck and cover.

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Stuart White men have only occupied the top 10% for only 500 years at best, before that it was olive skinned/yellow skinned/dark skinned men and history will prove me right! Have and have nots have been an issue since recorded history. However it is of interest that in Africa it was the middle class that was one the biggest hit by AIDS, mainly due to a promiscuous lifestyle, cultural morals and the wealth to move about. Speaking about the aboriginals I attended lectures in 1992 where the lectucer was warning about a major HIV problem in FN communities, Bella-Bella was named as one at great risk.