Finance Minister Kevin Falcon

"Nobody has been able to say there's anything that has not been accurate in those ads," he said. Accurate as far as they go, misleading as far as what they don't say. What they don't say is that with a 10% HST we will still pay more than the GST/PST under the old system. This is because the HST includes so many more items taxed than the PST ever did.

Does Mr Falcon really believe that we all have our collective heads, stuck in his political sand?

Latest polls

Sorry Robin, you are quoting the last Ipsos Reid push polls..In that poll Ipsos staff tpld the people they called that the HST was lowered to 10% and cheques were being mailed...

It was a sick n twisted poll.....Now that the 10% lie has been exposed...In Ipsos next poll...

The spread was 12% percentage points..With AXING the HST leading by a mile..

In that last Ipsos poll.

78% of people in the north are opposed to the HST

68% of those in the interior are opposed to the HST.

65% of all female voters are against the HST.

Your article is fine, please don`t quote old Ipsos Reid PUSH POLLS..

At least report the numbers in Ipsos`s last poll.

The NDP government's first

The NDP government's first big challenge will be removing the HST, diverting attention from the really important issues which need fixing, such as environment, health care, education, child protection, etc., and raising the tax revenues to pay for these things.

It's too bad that the Party will have helped create this "challenge" by its short-sighted, partisan anti-GST campaign.

Twisting in the wind

@rantic and everyone else...

Falcon was quoted yesterday by news1130 as saying any previous exemptions to the pst will not necessarily be brought forward. Will all those fighting the hst be willing to continue the fight after the referendum? It is starting to look to me that no matter how the referendum goes, we will have lost the ideological argument.

Groucho

Precisely why this whole exercise in democracy threatens to become a huge waste of taxpayer's money.

There are myriad ways of tweaking the HST that don't involve large wasteful expenditures.

Fair Taxes Needed

No question the HST is a major tax "shift" continuing the decade long Liberal giveaway to big business. But whatever sales tax system we wind up with - we need to look at the entire tax system. Check out www.bestdealbc.ca for more information.

Sure, but...

...after we assert some basic principles of democracy!

The pro HST campaign is a a

The pro HST campaign is a a fraud to mislead people with worthless percentages.

There would nothing be wrong with the HST if it had included only the items taxed in the past, but it now taxes a huge number of formerly tax free items, therefore no matter whether it is 10 or 12% it is a disgusting con game to mislead people, counting on the usual and traditional public ignorance of the issues,

Witness Harper in Parliamentary majority now, with dictatorial powers in his hands to sell off the country, while calling it "foreign investment" and "free trade" and 39.6% of the voters went for it.

Ed Deak.

.

No rules for political lies in advertising.

It would appear that any political advertisement can lie it's face off and nobody can be held to account.
How about an advertisement saying that the HST is planned to be raised to 20% in 2015, advertise that this commercial is sponsored by the BC government. A tiny unreadable disclaimer will work fine. Run it on Global prime time.
Seems nobody wants to fight fire with fire considering there are no rules of engagement, time to think out of the box.

@snert

"There are myriad ways of tweaking the HST that don't involve large wasteful expenditures."
Would it be, that that were true. Did not Christy have to go hat in hand to Harper to obtain permission to "maybe" reduce the HST in a couple of years? Will Harper allow the tweaking you suggest would be so easy?

HST is a Lie

Wake up Corporate Nerds. You are being conned by your Puppet Masters. You think you are one of the "winners" in today's society of greed? You are the biggest losers. Your selfishness is so easy to manipulate by the hidden Puppet Masters, who are much, much smarter than you. They will use your inflated ego to get you to do their dirty work & you just keep falling for it.
The public are seeing through this manipulation - they get this kind of crap from their boss every day & you are just like their boss, just more naive.

Sticking it to the Stick Men...

Well, it was the easiest capmaign to parody, wasn't it? Personally, I signed the first anti-HST petition out of spite for Gordon (call me Ambassador to Britain) Campbell. Actually I think it is a fair tax and you don't have to pay tax on anything if you REDUCE YOUR LEVEL OF CONSUMPTION. If in doubt, stop buying stuff you don't need and can't afford anyway.

AS SAYINGS GO

As long as no one lets "The cat out of the bag" the people of British Columbia will be willing to buy "a pig in a poke" the HST.

There is no point in "looking the gift horse in the mouth" (the maybe reduced HST) as it would be like flogging a dead horse.

Once brought to believe in something the faithful will always continue to believe, no matter the proofs against that something may be. That is a proven psycological fact which many refuse to believe.

I still believe in sovereignty over and above the HST.

Harper in Parliamentary

Harper in Parliamentary majority now, with dictatorial powers in his hands to sell off the country, while calling it "foreign investment" and "free trade"

And he's just about to appoint Campbell the high commissioner to Britain. It is all starting to come out. Here's the pay off for 1. the HST, 2. selling our railroad, 3. privatizing power, water, etc.

The arrogance.

Falcon better watch what he says, otherwise even bigger NDP win!

Christy and Co still seem to think that they can do and say whatever they want, and that they will get away with it. My blood boils re the huge tax shift onto our shoulders, all these things that now have the full HST, and how this really effects my pension cash flow! Because I made some good choices and worked hard over my career, I sure am not going to see any rebates, no matter what. Then they pretend to have a balanced HST campaign and then throw such a disproportionate amount of our money to tell us how good it is for us. This isn't fair play, but who would think that the Liberals know anything about being fair?

How can anybody be so stupid to fall for these government and pro-business distortions and lies? Now this musing of Falcon: "Falcon was quoted yesterday by news1130 as saying any previous exemptions to the pst will not necessarily be brought forward."

Vote YES to get rid of the HST and bring back the PST/GST that all recent governments were able to operate financially under. If Falcon then turns around after losing and then doesn't return the previous exemptions, this will surely and hopefully result in them being kicked out of office if they choose to hold an election this fall.

Going once, going twice

Sold to the Harper Gov't for only the High Commissioners job? Our B.C. sovereignty sold for a political appointment?

It's not the tax, it's the axe, the axe that cuts us off from our constitutional right to control taxation in our own province.

Harper may now regulate how his pet companies are taxed in B.C. without our consent. "HAIL HARPER". or "HIEL HARPER"?

Vote "YES" to screw Harper!

@ Fish-counter

Why is it necessary for me to make any sacrifice in my lifestyle so that taxes can be transferred from business. That is a silly concept. So I should start being frugal to avoid paying for the tax shift. Assuming that would even work, it doesn't because the tax is on so maney more things, it is still a nutty idea.

What side are they on?

Unions are hardly a disinterested party.

Will they now stand up for the public and oppose both the HST and - key! - the return of the PST?

Without significant reductions in government spending and the public tax burden, this debate is going in a circle...

Question?

Are all those employed by the "Public affairs bureau "union" or "non-union". It is they that seem to control the spin. "Hiel Gordo"

Lies and more lies,

"And yet they're going to be campaigning for a system that will provide a negative $3 billion hit to the provincial budget." Kevin Falcon.

It was the Bilderburger Liberals who lied their way into office that has provided this 3 billion dollar hit. Or is that number just another lie?

Mooney

The number is just another lie.

I love the parody ads.....

especially the one where the big businessmen turn the taxpayer upside down and shake every last dime out of her pocket! Hilarious! Way to go BC Fed. Great campaign!

By the way, did you see cbc today? Patches Clothing and a bicycle shop in Comox are speaking out about how the HST harms their business. Falcon's response to a Victoria Chamber meeting? Well, I never said the HST would be equally as good for ALL businesses. Wouldn't be the end of the world if we lost the HST and it would leave us with some budget issues, but........

We have them on the wall folks! With all their money, polls, ad campaigns, lies they know they are losing and they are grasping at straws!

No mail yet

...but I would really like to mark YES on my ballot.

No matter what anyone says. The HST is an UNFAIR tax. It is a tax shift from business to consumer. End of story.

I don't mind to pay my fair share in taxes but I am not interested to pay some stupid greedy corporation's tax and see that they get away with murder; send jobs to other countries while getting a tax cut ??? What the hell?

It is really a shame because overall the HST does make taxation simpler.

BUT ... the BC government didn't bother looking at various ways they could have implemented it. They just slapped 12% on everything because it was an easy thing to do.

When I see a pro-HST ad or even hear some idiot talk about how good it is I just shake my head and feel angry and insulted. Enough of the BS and thinking that people are stupid enough that they can think for themselves.

And enough of this neoConservative liars pretending to be the BC Liberal government. A bunch of arrogant, incompetent, corrupt, manipulative, greedy liars and robber barons. Really the only place I can see them be is prison.

If this province does not pull its head out of its behind - we truly deserve our fate. People power still exits. Time to use it!

YES - get rid of that stupid tax!

rantnic

I wasn't aware that there could be truth or lies in speculative thought, interesting?

Sounds to me that there is great potential for a lot of spite ballots to be cast. Ahhhh, democracy in action. Ain't it wonderful?

OhCanada

Well said - on all counts. Sometimes it's necessary to do the unbecoming in order to do the right thing.

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats."
- H. L. Mencken

Which makes frank2's commoent all the more bizarre. What on earth does the NDP have to do with restoring funding taken away from the government by rejection of the HST? This isn't an election on a government - it's a referendum on one specific issue of principle and taxation.

So let's use our AAA credit rating that Gordo's been hoarding for years and instead of spending it on public-private partnerships like bridges and subways to nowhere, use it instead to fund for a year our serious discussion of how we're going to properly and fairly tax our society's production to achieve the greatest fairness with the least burden.

Too often it seems the current gang of thugs conform more to Louis XIV's finance minister Colbert who was famously quoted as saying “The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing”

Hiss away! Vote YES!

Heads they win, tails we lose

If the HST does get booted, two things can happen:

In a couple of years, as election time comes around, they can point out how they're cutting the tax -- they "listened" and they gave us what we wanted.

(1) if they win the election, they can slash and burn like Bill Bennet's "rationalization" , and if we don't care for the cost in butchered programs, they can blame the soft-minded lefties who insisted. (What, you think they'll slash goodies for big business?)

(2) if they lose -- they can let the NDP take the heat for the tough choices (and if the NDP makes the corporate entities scream, it will be proof the NDP is not only "ideological" but also "unrealistic" plus they'll get even more corporate support gearing up for the next election).

- - - - - - - - - - - -
OMG! Now I'M sounding like a "lefty". It's a shame that BC politics forces you to pick one side or the other side in a two-team league -- even if you don't like either, and think the game sucks... Even corporate, mass/spectator sports entertainment gives you better options than that...

he NDP government's first

he NDP government's first big challenge will be removing the HST,
==========

I wish..But the reality is the BC Cons are not strong enough yet to split enough of the vote to let the NDP win and the NDP can only win if the right is split.

IDIOTS

Don't these idiots know that they are creating a society of POOPS. That is Pissed Off Old People.

Imagine if you will, some old fart going to the legislature, his nice metal cane bored out to take a 4/10 shotgun shell.

He will get his new teeth, 3 squares a day any medical aid he needs and even have his "depends" paid for.

B.C.'s new retirement program courtesy of the one and only Mr Kevin Falcon

thinking Outside The Box...

"Seems nobody wants to fight fire with fire considering there are no rules of engagement, time to think out of the box." Paisley.

True, for sure. Which is why, especially the defeat of the trade union movement in the Solidarity events in 1983, and their subsequent headlong retreat before the ruling class onslaught, we are in this extreme conservative/fascist period in the first place. That was the flag that marked the beginning of this period... in this country. And which experience deflated the confidence and has evaporated the fighting spirit of the working class ever since. (Which is where we have to get back to... now at much greater militant and progressive effort.)

But if you happened to watch Layton's speech last night, on the parliamentary channel, and I am anything BUT an NDPer, it was spectacular... And in my view, will go down as his finest hour in bourgeois parliamentary politics. A losing battle no doubt, here up against the fraud majority of the Conservatives. But another flag event, in my view, marking the worsening of the times, and an unprecedented attack against the working class, to defang and render entirely useless "collective bargaining", and crush the entire point of hereto trade unions... While at the same time creating the socio-political and economic conditions that are going to drive the masses in the direction of organizing and fighting back.

All things in good time, of course, but Layton's speech marked an important turning point to this period... even if a defeat here is the immediate outcome. Sometimes, it is just the case that things have to get worse before they get better.

but you are right Paisley... it will not happen without new thinking, at least to the times, even if it is going back to old working class historical experience, and especially, in the final analysis, looking "outside the box"... as in the "box of capitalism".

There needs to be a new preparedness to dream, AND ACT, against the ruling class order and its narrow class view of democracy, and to create new models and forms that strike to the base of their privileged power in the economy, and their control of social and political life.

Good speech Layton. The old spirit clearly isn't entirely dead yet in the NDP. A good starting point. Though it's going to take much more than speeches... before this is over.

The parrying of the stickmen

The parrying of the stickmen might lead one to believe, if the government-sponsored stickmen ads and the BC Fed's counter-ads were one's only education on the HST fiasco, that the Referendum is simply about the merits, or demerits, of the controversial tax. Of course the other big issue, unmentioned in the ads for either side, is the lie that the BC Liberals told when they promised not to bring in the HST during the last election campaign. Public anger spread across party lines, as demonstrated by the precedent-setting petition which bound the government to holding the Referendum, especially after the government appeared to lie again about when they started entertaining imposing the tax (they maintain it wasn't until after the election, though dated memos indicate otherwise), and again about the size of the deficit (which turned out to be in the billions, not the hundreds of millions, as they had claimed during the campaign.) The anger also grew to include other BC Liberal transgressions besides the HST, the BC Rail corruption trial being foremost ( and probably the thing that drove Premier Gordon Campbell's popularity to politically fatal lows.)

It's a cinch that many, if not most, of the people who will be voting "YES" to scrapping the HST will be doing so to register their anger over the BC Liberals' government by deception as much as, or more than for the pros and cons of the HST by itself. Still, it would be almost unimaginable for anyone, much less the BC Federation of Labour, to counter the pro-HST stickmen ads with that troublesome fact (imagine the blowback: We could end up sparking a protracted, ideological stickmen war, played out on the nightly news.) So it is tactful that the Fed parried with parody, pretending that the issue is really as simple as HST-yes-or-no, and presented in equally childish illustration.

Note that the prospect of an early fall election has recently been re-injected into the rumour mill as a tactic to induce the notion that voters needn't vent their ire about BC Liberal dishonesty by way of the HST Referendum when that opportunity will (or might) come in the form of a general election, and they can instead vote on the merits or demerits of the HST by itself. Be that as it may, and stickmen ads notwithstanding, the HST issue includes the fact that the BC Liberals lied again and again, and many voters will register their anger visa vis the HST Referendum.

Wow!

From CTV news last night.

50 businesses called. One has hired new people. Two have lowered prices. 48 don't like the tax.

No wonder Falcon is spinning. They know they have already lost this battle.

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/onyourside/

sunshine coast girl

http://robwipond.com/?p=501

RickW

Rob Wipond's article is very accurate. It also matches most nearly my current reading - a re-reading of John Kenneth Galbraith's The Affluent Society where he says exactly this thing. It appears this "business creates jobs" myth has been floating about for decades longer than Milton Friedman.

However, Galbraith added two very important pieces to the puzzle - so important that he put one first, and one after.

The first part was "advertising creates consumers". Then he went through the second part: "consumers create jobs", and last, he followed up with "credit enables consumers".

Not a word about businesses until the very end, and I don't recall that he had much to say about them, except that they're less predisposed to take risk than is commonly supposed - rather that consumers that take the biggest risks in a variety of ways. I'm looking forward to finishing the book to remind myself of the punchline: "The greater the wealth, the thicker the dirt."

Really!? Your cart is before your horse...

zalm: if I knew that my employees and I could freely negotiate wages without state interference,

...if the business was free of mandatory & unwanted tax/CPP/health care exactions,

...if I felt that business license costs, insurance requirements, sales taxes compliance costs & import duties were low enough to enable me to make a profit commensurate with my risk,

...and if I could be sure that personal and business income taxes would leave me that profit,

...THEN I might consider opening a business in Canada.

But, until then, Canada remains totally uncompetitive cost-wise in comparison to most other jurisdictions.

And...consumption creates jobs? Bass-ackwards: SAVINGS creates jobs! Capital and the deferral of consumption creates jobs.

Without real, unencumbered, debt-free capital, no real economic growth can exist.

Canadians have borrowed to sustain the unsustainable. Canadian debts amount to something like 147% of their consumption already: standards of living are due for a well-deserved plunge, to a point where they converge with cheaper, more efficient and productive jurisdictions which feature more reasonable standards of living unsupported by debt.

What's driving the Canadian "recovery":

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-whats-really-driving-house-prices-canada-must-see-graph-day

So is THIS consumption real "growth"? Oh, woe for all the ersatz real estate agent jobs created...

kreditanstalt

You need to hit the books again. You're still wrong about savings.

Excellent article RickW...

I think more people should do what Lynda Steel did. It's simple. Pick up the phone and ask businesses how many have lowered prices and/or hired new staff based on the HST.

The Haves and Have Nots...

Zalm is absolutely correct of course. Even from the business/ruling class perspective, if the object was to get the capitalist economy up and running, and meeting the people's need interests, and not primarily about their class wealth accumulation, the State would be printing money right now, and getting it into the hands of the consuming masses. Fuck inflation. Let free collective bargaining, unimpeded by The Capitalist State, balance that out, if The State is not prepared to introduce price controls... which it is not. (They will not act against their own, except "perhaps" under extreme duress to save the greater interest of the whole ruling class.)

It IS NOT business that creates jobs, Zalm is absolutely right, contrary to the popular mythology of capitalism. It is working class consumers with money to spend in their pockets, out in the marketplace, that gets "business" of its handout dependent ass, looking for ways and creating products to separate the masses from the content of their wallets... that's what creates "economic activity". Ain't no mystery to it.

And that even they know that is the case, is their constant demand for putting "reduced taxation" back into consumer pockets... as in making the working class pay for its own increased consumption, at the expense of medical, education, pensions and other services. They would rather this, than allowing an increased "share" to the poor and the working class, from their viewed "private" obscene share caches, via taxation transfer from the richest to the poorest etc.

As for weepy "small business", which we all like to see succeed as a sign of a time of prosperity... in such a time as this, if you cannot provide a decent living wage to your workers, but only maintenance of their poverty level, the fucking economy and we don't need you. Better you failed and room was created for more successful businesses, who can provide what you cannot. Sorry, but your constant cries of profit poverty do not break my heart. ('Causer I know that profit, as in private wealth accumulation, after allowing for the improvement needs of a business, only comes from stealing share from workers and the rest of society, and the resources of nature. Ain't no real mystery to this either, except to those who buy into right wing business/ruling class "bamboozle" rhetoric.)

It is time for the working class/consumer to draw his/her line in the sand... and to stop being so goddamn gullible. And get down to organizing the fightback with his/her fellows/class mates.

It really isn't that complicated. It's a simple power equation... who has it and is better organized, and who hasn't and isn't.

Thank you Jerry

It's nice to be well-thought-of, from time to time ;>)

And you're completely accurate that "weepy" business that relies on the reduction in wages to its employees to "make it" is no help to our society. Business may be capable of multiplying capital, but it cannot create value where none exists.

Kredit, I suspect if you had the kind of business you suggest, that it wouldn't make a buck for yourself or anyone else, because you clearly don't understand the first thing about the economy with a capital "E".

It starts with demand. Demand is created by advertising. Business fulfills demand by creating products however it can. If small business is used (ie food), competition is tough and demand is elastic with substitution frequent, and profits are low. If big business does the deed, oligopoly results, competition is lessened or eliminated, costs are passed on to the consumer (including higher taxes and higher wages which big businesses are only too glad to pay if it assures them of a market) demand is inelastic, and growth results.

Every single "need" we have today has arisen out of marketing to consumers. Business is littered with the failied attempts of sharp guys who thought they had a better idea but went broke trying to patent or build or market it, simply because no consumer could see a demand. And the best thing business as a whole can do for its profits is pay its workers better.

What we're in now is a tragic closed circle that can only result in the rape and death of the earth. It's also the reason why your much-vaunted website is right - that debt has fueled our current housing-price crisis - but that the reason and results it suggests are entirely wrong.

There will be no crash. This world economuy has been on an upward swing since the mid-1930s, and will do whatever it takes to continue it in a myriad of different forms - convince you that you need tail-fins on your cars, insist that your own house purchased with multi-generational mortgages are the only way to assure security, start wars, start more wars... whatever it takes to continue demand. It may not be real estate in ten years, but it'll be something.

I'm no happier about it than you are - the old way of people being responsible and saving for the fulfillment of their desires and for their retirement has been robbed from us by people who don't work hard but can figure out how to scam the system to slice off their own little piece of profit from the pie that seems to be ever-expanding on a whim.

You strike me as an intelligent guy. Why you can't see this is beyond me. HAven't you read economics? You're trapped in this wierd Ayn Rand bubble I guess... Haven't you ever wondered by even Milton Friedmann had nothing good to say about her?

There's no such thing

...as "business paying the tax" under the PST.

Enough class warfare here! With any kind of tax, it is the individual who always pays, whether by sales taxes, income taxes or simply because the numerous forms of tax are priced into the consumer's goods purchases...

If the HST either spurs business to invest (unlikely) OR employers pass on their tax savings to employees or shareholders (also unlikely, at least right away) then it will make no change to the net tax burder for individuals.

PST? HST? Six of one, half a dozen of the other...

@zalm: YOU need a little education! Try

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJIMqwJI2uI

...but I know very well neither of us will ever change the other's mind!

Class Warfare???

There's class warfare all right Kreditanstalt...

Maybe you don't know Warren Buffett but he might provide a little 'education' for you on that subject.

Here: (from the New York Times)

Put simply, the rich pay a lot of taxes as a total percentage of taxes collected, but they don’t pay a lot of taxes as a percentage of what they can afford to pay, or as a percentage of what the government needs to close the deficit gap.

Buffett compiled a data sheet of the men and women who work in his office. He had each of them make a fraction; the numerator was how much they paid in federal income tax and in payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare, and the denominator was their taxable income. The people in his office were mostly secretaries and clerks, though not all.

It turned out that Mr. Buffett, with immense income from dividends and capital gains, paid far, far less as a fraction of his income than the secretaries or the clerks or anyone else in his office. Further, in conversation it came up that Mr. Buffett doesn’t use any tax planning at all. He just pays as the Internal Revenue Code requires. “How can this be fair?” he asked of how little he pays relative to his employees. “How can this be right?”

“There’s class warfare, all right,” Mr. Buffett said, “but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”

It's not a question of changing anyone's mind, my friend, it's simple a question of people like yourself learning about the reality of the socialism of the wealthy.

Time to wake up.

nice try

"Enough class warfare here! With any kind of tax, it is the individual who always pays, whether by sales taxes, income taxes or simply because the numerous forms of tax are priced into the consumer's goods purchases..."

Wrong again. Corporate profits are taxed because they usually do not make their way down to consumers except for the portion that is paid out as dividends or stock bonuses. Any profits retained are usually spent on making the corporation more powerful by reducing competition (buying up competition or buying its own stock or debt back).

Taxes are also paid by agencies providing social goods, such as education, military and welfare. The government does not mean to capture these agencies in its tax rolls, but it does anyway, which adds to the administrative overhead of tax collection which is again born partly by corporations (especially defense corporations), and funding due from royalties and other methods of raising money that ultimately do not come from the consumer.

But all that is aside from my point, which you persist in ignoring. HST attacks hardest those individuals who can least afford to pay consumption taxes by virtue of low income, and it further removes a tool of social policy that could be used to address this issue from the provincial government's arsenal. PST/GST did both of these batter, albeit only marginally.

You do not address this - you only address the simplifying prospects of the new tax regime as a benefit to society at large.

Well, if we're all to be treated as "society at large", how about spreading around some of the income that's sticking to only a few pockets like it was glued in there? I know, I know, you think that's violence. Well, you're the one who wanted to stop the class warfare, so suppose you read what economists have written about the social contract that pronounces a greater value on sharing the burden of a social benefit like a military force for defence, as opposed to each man or woman handling his own national defence?

Murray Rothbard

Kreditanstalt, you strike me as a follower of Murray Rothbard - most of the concepts you use seem to come from his writings. Am I wrong?

If so, how do you handle the ultimate foundation of his free monetary society, which was to return to a "100% gold standard", which ultimately ensured that only the societies which possessed gold (ultimately on their own soil) could be responsible for growth? And given that gold does not magically appear, but is instead manufactured through a massively-polluting industrial process, it introduces its own distortion into the market as independent individuals (and corporations) trade off long-term environmental prosperity for their own short-term gain?

These were questions he was never able to answer, despite some fast dancing. Maybe you can?

zalm, I confess to...

...never having read either Ayn Rand or Murray Rothbard, though I am well aware of their work.

This is only tangentially relevant to the topic, isn't it?

I really don't care to whether or not "societies" or nation-states, as collectivities, possess gold; ideally, all gold should be in the hands of private individuals. Anyway, any "gold standard" coming about will likely be a private one, such as the (nascent & 'unofficial') current role of gold as real money.

I don't want to see an imposed gold standard at all; much more egalitarian would be to repeal legal tender laws and to allow parties to any transaction to use whatever they wish as money. A government-enforced gold standard would be no less an act of violence than are the present legal tender laws forcing the use of government-issued paper "money"...

IMO, one of the few legitimate uses of government would be to provide some minimal protection the environment. Such activities as the polluting of water sources and the creation of lethal nuclear wastes can be carried out by individuals but undeniably affect others and thus are themselves an attack on the person of another.

@Kreditanstalt..

Leaving matters to business and private enterprise seems to have managed, on the evidence, to screw things up pretty magnificently since, lets say, the 1980s.

There is plenty of evidence available which demonstrates clearly that low-tax and pro-investment policies (as opposed to fair tax and government regulation) have been a thoroughgoing disaster in every country where that ethos gained the upper hand.

Why not actually contend with the disastrous results of the policies you support?

Your silence speaks volumes. The facts are pretty clear - why ignore them?

Providing an equitable background for ALL human beings seems a far more successful way to support the personhood of the whole population - I'm surprised you can't see that.