Dr Alexander

Again, I concur. The fact that the media have become as scripted and hidebound as the candidates is disappointing, no, more than that, it's reprehensible.

I'd like to use the CBC as an example. Instead of careful analysis from the public broadcaster CBC coverage has taken on the characteristics of a charade. A charade orchestrated by puffin Don Newman and entirely convinced of his own importance Peter Mansbridge.

No-spin zone indeed - it has become almost as bad as CNN

The same faces mouthing the same (or slightly varied) versions of party spokesmen and women. And now these items are interspersed, on Suhana Meharchand's afternoon Newsworld show with Skype conversations between the host and random Canadians.

Pathetic.

Bill C-484 progressive leaders are idiots

Before parliaments dissolution Harper's theocon MP Ken Epp's private members bill, C-484 "Unborn Victims of Crime Act", a thinly disguised anti-abortion measure received second reading with 93% support from Harper's caucus of social conservatives. This was after intense lobbying efforts of pro choice womens groups to stop the bill.

This 93% support is absolute proof that a conservative majority will ban abortion, and is the one thing that would torpedo Harper's neocon campaign. I simply can't understand why progressive leaders are not "Harpering" on the this issue at every opportunity especially in Quebec.

When currently muzzled fundamentalist MP's lead by White Rock's Russ "the Deacon" Hebert introduce, as they have promised in the past, a private members bill to criminalize abortion, Harper's 93% social conservative caucus will ensure the ban passes.

Even assuming that the proven liar (read income splitting, newfie resource sharing) Harper keeps his promise to move to the centre and will not discuss his social conservative agenda, his 93% social conservative caucus will leave him no option. Given this same gang of 93 percenters love for prison for marijauna smokers, capital punishment and hatred of gays, we can only image the horror of a conservative majority.

I'd suggest all progressive voters check out voteforenvironment.ca's suggestions for strategic voting in their own riding. This group gathers the most up to date polling for all Canadian ridings then suggests the liberal, green, or ndp candidate most likely to beat the muzzled neocon stooge the cons have put out for their riding.

seth

Whether you vote Liberal or COnservative you'll still get 50 billion in corporate tax cuts leaving no money in the kitty for anything else.

And after those tax cuts are in place, next election we'll be told we have to lower them to 10% or the sky will fall.

And the election after that it'll be 5%.

Vote Liberal if you like but don't fool yourself you're voting for a different economy than Harper's.

CBC's new mission of "balance"

G West said:"I'd like to use the CBC as an example. Instead of careful analysis from the public broadcaster CBC coverage has taken on the characteristics of a charade."

-CBC.ca's published mea culpa
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/09/28/f-vp-cruickshank.html
over Heather Mallick's controversial column, since removed from CBC's site, but still available at
http://www.heathermallick.ca/cbc.ca-columns/a-mighty-wind-blows-through-republican-convention.html

which "insults" Sarah Palin, calling her supporters the "white trash" vote, for instance. CBC is promising better "balance" in political coverage in future, starting immediately. This scares me.

I'm fearing CBC's new mission of "balance"
may be along the lines of Newsweek's hiring of ethically-challenged right-winger Karl Rove, or the NY Times' hiring of long time WSJ Bush cheerleader Bill Kristol, or CNN hiring controversial right wing radio host Glen Beck, all in the name of providing audiences with B.S. -- I mean "balance".

-Watch for an Ezra Levant to soon join the Mothercorp in the name of "balance".

CBC

GWest

"I'd like to use the CBC as an example."

Mike Duffy on CTV had a much more comprehensive group of commentators including the press and politicians from all sides.

realisticman

On Friday's Mike Duffy show you had Perrin Beatty (Con), the Liberal panelist and Duffy himself all defending the Conservative-Liberal tax cuts and saying they all had to band together to stop "class-warfare" from gaining a foothold.

I guess Duffy and friends are afraid of poor people that don't know their place.

hard to watch, harder to listen

Of course I wanted to watch this debate but Dion, Layton, Duceppe and May drove me away. (to the Vice Prez debate)

As much as I loathe War President Harper, the other leaders leave me little choice as do the local candidates.

Briony Penn?

Even the great Canadian pundit Rex Murphy agrees, this wasn't a debate, there was no exchange of ideas, just posturing.

Mike Duffy, Balanced?

Not by a long shot

His writings and musings over the last two decades put him in the lines of one of the great defenders of the "laissez faire" Milton Friedman school of economics.

Sure, CBC is not perfect. On the other hand, how can anyone truly give a lot of credence to all the media outlets of the Asper Empire. They just have their Canadian versions of the Kristols and the Thomas Friedmans of the world spewing out the same "government is bad" "war is good" crapola.

I have seen enough of Duffy over the years to confirm my thoughts of him being a veritable Dickensonian characterture of the well-off gentry wagging his finger at the lesser masses for their ignorance of all things economic and hence, due to the lack of knowledge (and insider information and trading) that is understood amongst the priests and witch doctors of the economic ruling class, the lower status folks deserve their lot in life.

nominalis

You said:
"Even the great Canadian pundit Rex Murphy agrees, this wasn't a debate, there was no exchange of ideas, just posturing."

I don't know who named Rex Murphy a "great pundent": it certainly wasn't me. There could have been a debate if Harper would have presented a platform. Harper added absolutely nothing to the "debate".
Please vote ABC (Anybody But Conservative) - preferably for Layton, as he actually presented a platform filled with ideas that will get this country working on wise projects that can carry Canadians into the future with fairness and dignity.

Rex Murphy

I listened to the curmudgeon's opinion that the leaders' debate wasn't a debate.

He was stunningly unconvincing. And I think the general reaction of Canadians confirms this.

Compared with the American vice-presidential 'thing' the Canadian debate was:
a) Interesting from the very first moment;
b) moderated with panache and élan;
c) revealing - not only of ideas, but also of attitudes and body language - as well as an ability to think and speak on the fly that Murphy -- so scripted is he -- can only envy.

Harper couldn't have been more condescending and elitist if you'd put him behind a lectern.

Obviously Murphy, whose heart seemingly pitter pats for a 'strong' leader, would have preferred something that followed more traditional lines.

That is not surprising – given the depth of Rex's misunderstanding of the actual world around him.

Agree with you on Rex, G.

Rex is far to cynical, far too often. If he was actually credible, few would vote. Apparently thats a healthy democracy according to Rex. And then there's the reality that he's a man made global warming denier. He strikes me as someone who doesn't care about major issues until it directly effects himself and that is Rex's major flaw. He's disconnected to the causal effects of civilization, never mind showing a want to find solutions... just run everything down because it has appeal at first, but after a while it gets dry and distorts the truth.

Agree with you as well, Doc!

Outside of the reality that it is the Woobridge family who controls majority interest of Thompson Reuters which controls majority shares of CTV globemedia and the Globe and Mail, Dr Alexander, you are on the money.

The CBC, as flawed as its reporting sometimes is, is also quite defenseable. For one, without its existence, and with Quebecor/Osprey in Chapter 11, we could see with Aspers Can West and Woodbridges Thompson Reuters buy out the CBC's market share if Harper gets a majority and privatizes the CBC. Folks, thats 23% of our mainstream media. Couple this with the strong possiblity that Quebecor could go down, we talking every major Sun daily in Canada other than Asper's Vancouver Sun. If this were to happen, the Toronto Star would stand alone. Even Rogers cable is board influenced with a director who sits on the board of Rogers cable and Thompson Reuters.

Otherwise, the more voices there are in mainstream media, the better the chance that news which is politically unflattering, like the disappearence of our Pacific Pink Salmon due to Fish farm lice at the mouths of BC's coastal salmon runs... stories like this have a much better chance of seeing the light of day.

Media concentration is a major issue and hasn't gotten anywhere near the coverage it should considering a Harper majority could insure that 95% of our mainstream media would be controlled by just two families, Woodbrige and Asper, both who do not stop short of propaganda in a play to control virtually all of Candada's mainstream news.

And Harper is their puppet to such an end.

Confucius says...

"It is only the wisest and the stupidest that do not change."
— Confucius
Now I wonder if Confucius meant that to apply to lying.

Thanks for the info The Brain

Excellent description of the controlling interests in Canadian media and recent threatening events to further the monopoly of ideas (or ideology). Thanks for the lesson.

I find it troubling that so many people I meet are nonchalant about the prospect that the CBC might be cut right out of existence. For Heaven's Sake, it is imperative that there is a publicly funded broadcasting entity for a country as big as Canada. We have done to our broadcasting system what the Americans have to to their financial system.

The provision of information is imperative for a fully functioning democracy. In fact, when it was announced previously that the "News Cartel" decided it did not want Elizabeth May in the Leaders Debate, I immediately wrote the CRTC to remind them that the "News Cartel" do not have the ability to exercise this kind of discretion. In fact, broadcasters in Canada are obliged to act in the public interest. The are permitted to broadcast on Canadian airwaves. It is a permission, it is not a right.

Back to the point. Do we want to have our political events presented to us from a healthy milieu of public broadcasters and news sources that compete amongst each other. Or do we want the sort of thing that is in Berlisconi's Italy, where he owns all the media.

Speaking of broadcasting issues (and a bit off topic). What's the deal with CKNW have their morning show on air on Shaw Cable even though CKNW has a radio license and not a television license? Anyone know?

Skywalker

You may wonder but don't be obsessed. Some westerners find it inscrutable.

"It should be noted Confucianism does not condemn lying".

CBC's global warming denier

the brain said:

"And then there's the reality that Rex Murphy's a man made global warming denier. He strikes me as someone who doesn't care about major issues until it directly effects himself and that is Rex's major flaw."
-Right.I find it incredible a man of Rex's intelligence has remained a global warming skeptic longer than Harper or Bush. Harper and Bush may only pretend to address the problem, but at least They now acknowledges its reality. Besides the CBC and Globe with Rex, I believe only Canwest has continued to trot out climate change deniers on its newspaper pages mostly.

Is it possible "Newfie jingoism" is partly responsible for Rex's delusions? As in Hibernia oil may be threatened in a new post-oil economy.
-Maybe in Rex, CBC's already got its newly coveted "balance"!

The completely irrational

The completely irrational part of the English debate was that the opposers didn't cut Harper to pieces on his sordid record, secret plans, negotiations and blind beliefs that will destroy Canada if he gets a majority.

Not withstanding the perennial sarcastic grin on his otherwise empty face, saying: "You guys can jump around, people are stupid and ignorant and so I'll get my majority and do what I want with this country"

Not one of them mentioned the secret talks about the SPP, NAU and for "deep integration" into the already established corporate dictatorship of the EU.

I dread the future of this country in his hands.

Ed Deak.

Poll update : No Con majority

According to Decima : the anti Con and Lib vote is now at 42%.

Cons down to 35 (Once had them at 41)
Libs down to 22
NDP up to 20 (Started at 14)
Greens up to 13
Bloc at 9

According to Nanos : the anti Con and Lib vote is 37%

Cons 35 (+0)
Libs 28 (-2)
NDP 19 (+1)
Bloc 10 (NC)
Greens 8 (-1)

And it's not only Pee Wee who follows the script

It may be the whole damn party - except, perhaps, stockboy Day:

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/decisioncanada/story.html?id=f5ef1558-f8d9-4c19-b0e3-dc1e0c64608e

It's time people started to ask - Where are the Conmen...and women?

Today

Sorry, that was yesterday's Decima poll

Today its

Cons 34
Libs 24
NDP 20
Greens 13
Boc 8

The Cons are not going to get a majority with those numbers.

And..

Todays Nanos (yesterday's is 3 messages up)

Con 34%
Lib 30%
NDP 19%
BQ 10%
Gr 7%

Interesting that both polls saw a 1% decline in Conservative support in 24 hours. Its within the margin of error but still, both polls agreed on the shift.

Not taking part in debates

Not taking part in debates or posting plans and platforms has been used by Vander Zalm back in the 80s.

When Party, and all candidates were asked certain questions by the media, or in all-candidate debates, the Socreds were silent and absent. In this Cariboo riding with the Socred candidates Alex Fraser and Neil Vant.

They were both elected and the Party won a good majority, until it collapsed around their ears.

In short, don't underestimate the gullibility and ignorance of the voting public: "Well, let's give Harper a chance!"

Ed Deak.

Contrast those polls with these, Frank and...

http://www.thestar.com/federalelection/article/419595

Pollsters under contract to mainstream media that badly wants the privatization of the CBC to take place in order to take over market share, and...

We have juiced poll numbers followed by junk opinion pieces to sway the popular vote. Propaganda in Canada is getting pretty ripe.

And to the rest of you:

Stuff was said here about "how bad" the CBC's journalism is these days... is it?

There are 3 factors effecting the CBC that I think should be mentioned that explain some of their weaknesses in terms of media quality. There likely are some people worried about their jobs today in the CBC to promote headlines coming from other mainstream media, never mind their jobs of tomarrow.

The second reason is that the CBC is not private, but a government mainstream media corporation. The world seriously watches their news in terms of propaganda and fairness more than any other media due to this fact. My guess is that CBC is overcompensating just a little because there is a reputation of them being favorable to Liberal governments in the past. I’m not sure to what degree this kneejerk reactionary effect is in terms of trying to be as unbiased as possible, but the pendulum can swing too far the other way with reaction and its certainly enough to make mention.

Thirdly, I’d say the CBC, like CTV and Can West, they run national headline stories often within 5 to 10 minutes of each other and while the majority of the time its warranted because they are providing a breaking news service to their viewers, sometimes stories get out there in the heat of the moment that can’t be taken back where they wish they could. Too often, headliners come out that are nothing more than spin and hype and the CBC needs to recogize the difference on the fly and put an end to it in order to increase their mainstream media news quality.

Often there are themes to news that are timeless. Examples would be Global warming/climate change or poverty or Afghanistan. Themes that last for years and years are much easier to prepare good journalism towards and this is where the CBC has been quite strong with their quality of news reporting.

CBC has the resources and the people to do specific themes justice. An example is what they’ve reported on Tasers or gun control as an example, but there are dozens of themes CBC has done well at. When media has time to prepare a story that will not go away, if the media outlet is in fact, good at what it does and is impartial to the full picture of the facts themselves, it will show.

People run down the CBC on isolated stories or perhaps stories that have had very little time to prepare for because its “breaking news” and often, thats where the CBC does fall short of the mark. This election is no exeption.

But there are times where the CBC does shine. They will take an issue and tear it apart for example with a “reality check” and what they uncover is what I would consider to be good journalism. But the stuff they cover that requires journalism/editing that is “shot from the hip”… I’m afraid that is one of their weaker suits and it shows in this election.

I will say that when it comes to basket news or news other mainstream media jumps on right away, the CBC is not up to par in fereting out propaganda. Again, this election is no exception. Its my belief that when this election is over, a new theme will be created and it will be media propaganda and media concentration. Its my belief that the CBC’s own fate will rest on its ability to do so.

And do the decision makers within the CBC truly believe that Harper would privatize the CBC? They might not. I believe the threat is very real. Most certainly, this is what Harper heavily campaigned for with his 5 year stint as prez of the National Citizens coalition and and if there is a Harper majority, there would be major opposition against such policy.

It is my own feeling that people like myself would howl loudly in terms of what the future would hold in regards to media concentration without the CBC around and how such concentration would lead to political propaganda and a major drop in the quality of mainstream media. I wouldn’t doubt that something like this would lead even to a possible general strike but then, its pure speculation at this point and even so, unions might not come to bat in defense of the CBC. For all the bashing some commentors do against the CBC on this site, its high time we imagined what would happen if the CBC was gone together and what impacts it would have on the rest of Canada's mainstream media. Asking the question "who benefits" tells all.

Lorne

"Contrast those polls with these"

Its the same polls Lorne. And Ekos isn't putting out different numbers than Nanos and Decima.

As for the CBC, I agree that they do classic journalism well. I watch the National's features, I love 5th Estate. CTV and Global aren't up to the job.

Where the CBC gets in trouble is domestic politics.

Strategic voting

With only 9 days to go, regardless of which polling firm anyone likes, its clear the Conservatives are polling lower than the 36.2% they got in the last election.

That would mean that the Liberals don't need NDP and Green votes.

And with the Cons too weak to pass anything the situation would be ripe for the opposition parties to introduce and pass a new electoral system.

Assuming the Liberals would want a fairer system.

Frank...

And the last ten days in an election campaign can still be an eternity in politics.

Nik Nanos, of Nanos Research, has found that ~1/3 of voters make a firm decision in the last 72 hours!

Green voters are the softest and non-ideological NDP voters are also soft in that regard.

The NDP announced today an $8 million negative ad campaign against the Liberals... I've seen the ad and it's silly IMHO and might backfire.

The Cons here in BC have just launched a somewhat effective anti-NDP tele ad campaign and it might shake off some of the soft NDP vote.

And then the incumbent NDP MP for BC Southern Interior has just been accused of plagiarism.

http://rjjago.wordpress.com/2008/10/05/2598/

It's gonna be a long roller coaster ride of a week!

Luke

As we agreed at the beginning of this campaign, poll numbers by themselves aren't the most important thing, its the trends that are. The Cons have been trending downward for more than a week. I suppose its possible they will come out with the mother of all platforms this week and everyone will fall in love with Harper again but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

I thought the Cons had already decided plagiarism isn't an issue Canadians care about? I know I didn't care enough about the Harper-Howard thing to even post on the issue.

Luke

"Green voters are the softest and non-ideological NDP voters are also soft in that regard."

Which is why strategic voting always favours the Liberals, because Libs don't change their vote for anyone, even if Harper sprouted horns. Its only naive Dippers and Greens that fall for the strategic voting siren song.

To get rid of Harper folks

To get rid of Harper folks best think before voting for the party with no actual elected MP. The Greens have support but its rather spread out. In close riding they could hurt either the Liberals or NDP somewhat, and we all lose. The Liberal and NDP are close together. I suggest the NDP will end up at least as the Offical Opposition and if Harpo sqeezes into a shaky minority, a NDP opposition with a few Liberals can drop him at will. But better still, they could come up with bills they could pass even with Harpo scowling at them. Steve boy figured by breaking his own legislation he might get a majority. Ain't going to happen as folks simply don't trust him. Emerson won't be a senator anytime soon

What about ... ?

I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the opening comment by Harper.

In the first 30 seconds, he launched an aggressive comment against Layton (or maybe it was against Dion) that was absolutely out of context. I was so startled, I actually cannot remember who he was ripping or what he said.

It was unrelated to anything, unnecessary, angry, and kinda weird.

It was the one glimpse of the Ugly Harper we've heard about. As such, it deserved notice.

What about ... ?

I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the opening comment by Harper.

In the first 30 seconds, he launched an aggressive comment against Layton (or maybe it was against Dion) that was absolutely out of context. I was so startled, I actually cannot remember who he was ripping or what he said.

It was unrelated to anything, unnecessary, angry, and kinda weird.

It was the one glimpse of the Ugly Harper we've heard about. As such, it deserved notice.

Mary

Wasn't that the attack on Dion bringing up his "economic plan" the previous night in the French debate?

I think any of the others could have taken a shot at Dion on that but considering the Conservatives don't have a platform its a bit rich coming from them.

Election 2008

HURON-BRUCE

Q: Nuclear and wind power are top of mind for many local residents. What role, if any, should the federal government play in the development and management of each?

GREG MCCLINCHEY, LIBERAL

"Rural Canada has the potential to become the home of some of these emerging technologies.

Carbon sequestration and biodiesel are all important components on the road to converting to a greener energy sector. The aforementioned could represent the fostering of economic development in rural Canada and would assist in efforts to fend off the exodus of young people from rural to urban Canada. Young people would stay in rural Canada to raise their families if respectable incomes could be earned.

At the same time, these technologies could generate income for farmers while generating green and clean energy for all of Canada.

It is important to note that, while the above are innovative in their nature, they are not currently able to satisfy our energy needs. With that, and in light of our climate change responsibilities, our society has rightly turned to the nuclear industry. Liberals have suppor ted the nuclear industry for decades and the industry has consistently demonstrated that nuclear energy production is safe, reliable and emissions free. Bruce Nuclear is the source of more than 20 per cent of Ontario's electricity. The Bruce site operates a total of six reactor units and they are in the process of restarting two more at the Bruce A generating station. Once restarted, those units will boost the total output to more than 6,200 megawatts of emissions-free electricity. The production of energy is a paramount industry in Huron-Bruce, employing more than 4,000 people and generating millions of dollars into the local economy. With all of the above in mind, I will continue to support the industry in general -- and the Bruce location in particular."

Harper

You are so right, Crawford - he sat there like a patronising s..of a b.... just waiting for the person speaking to finish and making it all too clear that he didn't give a damn what they were saying because it was all nonsense and anyway he knew better! 'Smirk' was right - and not at all 'prime ministerial' as the pundits tried to persude us.