If I had a quarter

for every quarter I plugged into a video game machine as a teen, I'd probably be writing this post from a nice waterfront house in the Gulf Islands, instead of from work (graveyard shift) in the Big Smoke.

Kicked the habit years ago, and feel sorry for my buddies still glued to their consoles.

hell yeah! been a gamer

hell yeah! been a gamer forever...43 in june. see ya later haters and slugs - you're idiots akin to those who were complaining about motion pictures having sound and talking - those frightened of the future back than also made many arguments against that artform.

Like it or not, gaming is the greatest art developped yet by humans. Those not understanding this are their own worst enemies.

slug?

You're at home on the cousch stabbing at buttons in a fantasy world and you're calling us slugs?

didn't take long to get to the insults

Funny how discussions about video games, TV or the iPod (or MP3 players in general) immediately degenerate into the sniping camps of those who can't understand and those who can't understand not understanding. We all enjoy different things and yet we continue to judge those who do not apportion their time according to standards we think are correct.

I have two close friends with whom I play games online: usually GPL racing or FIFA soccer. We talk while we play: it is another way to keep in touch with the added benefit of some fun competition. It is a nice break during the week, something we all look forward to. One guy is a software engineer and the other is a philosophy prof, hardly the kinds of guys one thinks of when the word "gamer" is spat out.

I understand

I'm just not interested. Been there, done that. Real life is more enjoyable to me. To each his own, but from my perspective video games tend to eat up too much time for too little reward.

Who cares!

Besides the possible influence a la Columbine, I could care less that peple want to occupy, or waste depending on your perspective, time playing unreality games.

Besides, without electricity, no electronic games!

Stump!

You might have seen this funny thing from a local writer, on that very topic:

http://www.darrenbarefoot.com/archives/2007/01/my-project-du-jour-getafirstlifecom.html

I agree with you to an extent. The thing is, some folks really are genuinely fulfilled, happy, respected, and engaged while living in the Matrix.

One could argue that this is an illusory, daydreamy sort of life, but I don't want to dismiss it either.

Does anyone remember "The Menagerie" in Star Trek when Spock hijacked the Enterprise so that he could give his old captain a new, vivid (albeit virtual) life? I think of games in that context.

Social Commentary and Indie Games

"Unlike rock music, to which gaming has a certain comparison, I'd like to see more activism, more political engagement. There's very little indie spirit."

There were a few games that had social commentary. Medal of Honor, while a blockbuster title, actually made the storming the beach during D-Day level a very low probability to win. So one had to die to machine gun nests over and over again. It was apparently on purpose, to show how war is a senseless meatgrinder. Mind you, the rest was all heroic Killing Zee Germans.

And there was Black & White, a game in which you played god to group of villagers by interacting with a large animal that protected/punished them. It didn't have a 'win' scenario. The animal you controlled just got more and more time-consuming to deal with. The game was saying something about omnipotence and power.

Insofar as indie, there are a bevy of small game development that never makes it mainstream presses. Many mods are complete revamps of the game they sit on top of. There is also a thriving independent game developers community that regularly creates compelling games.

But he's right when he says there are no political games. Or not many of them. Because games, first and foremost, are meant to be played. One might make a point that there are few political board games out there.

Much of what you call

Much of what you call reality is just marketing and pr-spin driven bs...at least gamers know they are in a fake world, you, not so much....and btw we all get fragged and pwned from time to time so aggressive language - for slugs - is another thing you simply do not get by failing to embrace new art and technology forms as they arise....

peace

yo and ur name is stump,

yo and ur name is stump, like u no?

The gaming generations and real war

I've been involved professionally and as a hobby in the computer realm since the birth of the pc. I remember playing Star Trek and Adventure on UVIC's old mainframe, and later on my Osbourne 1 and Kaypo 2 CP/M machines. These days I run a free on-line game site ( http://terracorps.com ) that's been running now since 96 with much the same player base and a rotating series of n00bes(newbies).

Average age is a whopping great 43, a number you can't take much credence in because the actual ages range from 11 to well into the 60's, and I'm now fifty. It's more of a social club than anything else, with volunteer programmers and players that fly long distances to meet up for social events. The players themselves range from the dregs of humanity to senior professionals and businessmen.

Gaming is a different world and I'm not sure the positives outway the negatives. I've seen too many of the players waste their lives away stuck in these artificial realities. I've always been too busy to play much, and don't have an addictive personality, but many others do. Games become their life to the exclusion of almost all else. On the other hand, it's also a place to vent off frustrations, or attain social standing, for those who in real life may not have otherwise have much.

Perhaps gaming has become a replacement for TV. And unlike TV, gaming requires a degree of intelligence. Gaming also doesn't care what you look like, sound like or any other negative social characterises the player may have. It's the great equalizer.

However, the real worrying part of all this is the rapid growth of technology in the gaming industry. The reality of these games is becoming mind numbing, the effect on the human brain uncharted territory. The old adage of "garbage in, garbage out" applies just as much to the human brain as it does the computer. I often wonder if we are about to produce generations of cyber monsters so desensitized to violence and mayhem that it has measurable, and negative, impact on real world decision making.

The next technological revolution of real world war making will involve a massive increase in robotics, both in the air and on the ground, all no doubt controlled by new generations of gamers already pre-programmed for massive levels of violence. We are seeing some of this in operation now in the Middle East and Africa. It's a scary thought. One wonders if the world's next Hitler will be a gamer....

MY brain is a cool oasis

At my job, I utilize two computers, three flat panel displays and a video monitor to get my work done. If I embrace technology any tighter I'll start to set off Geiger counters.

If your implication is that I might be some kind of Luddite it's off base. I just don't worship technology any more than I worship any other tool I use.

As I mentioned in my first post, I've played my share of video games. But eventually, I (and I'm sure you'll have some 'aggressive language' to send my way over this phrase) 'grew out of it.'

I see enough violence in the news that I have no desire to participate in imaginary death and destruction. Frankly, I barely have an appetite for movies with that nonsense in it anymore.

Certainly there's other non-violent games out there, but if I want to play a sport, I'll do it in real life. If I want to build a community... ditto. I suppose I DO use the Internet quite a bit, but to me it's simply a faster method of communication, not an end unto itself. Which really is all a game is. What's the point of being good at a game outside of the game?

Dale:

The next Hitler is liable to be A Game or disguised as one... and/or the gamers unwitting accomplices. "Ender's Game" anyone?

Anyway MyBrain, if you want to play games that's fine by me. Doesn't change the fact I feel sorry for you if that's your focus in life (and many gamers I've met seem to let other aspects of their life suffer so they can log those hours with a joystick). Anyway, why do you care how I feel? I'm just a slug. And yet the barest hint of criticism set you off. Hmmm. fascinating.

Enders Game

Yes, Enders Game ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender's_Game ) did come to mind when I wrote this piece. To a great extent I think we're already there, just replace bugs with terrorists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_robot

Some of the guys blowing away terrorists in the middle east and Africa are sitting in Washington in front of a computer. The next generation of U.S. fighter planes don't have the downside of requiring human pilots. See http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/x-45-ucav/

Done at 1/3 the cost of conventional fighter planes, these aircraft are essentially flown by real world computer jocks, or professional military gamers if you will, because that is how they learn to fly them. Games are becoming extraordinarily realistic and are dumbed down in things like flight models only to satisfy the average gamer who doesn't want to spend the time required to fly the real thing. MS Flight Simulator, and a few others, are some of the exceptions. Many of the gaming companies have military contracts for this reason.

And you wouldn't believe the amount of money going into man/machine interfaces, in particular at the organic (read brain) level in order to improve on response times.

Rather than Enders Game, I'd say we're heading more towards the kind of military robots we saw at the end of Terminator 3. Give it another twenty years, tops, and we'll be there.

Dale

my love is an ocean

Dead End

I gamed for years finally kicked the habit, done lots of way better stuff since.

After the end game come the robots, machines will allow the fat folk in the bunkers to finally retire the brown nosers, butt kissers, knob gobblers, police and military personnel who have kept them in positions of privilege all these years.

Gamers of today are paving the road for the machines of tomorrow, from the designers to the players, unsuspecting guinea pigs all.

snort snort leisure time

snort snort leisure time snobs
lobbing fluff balls
have the gall
to be appalled

too bad for us all

poo poo

poo poo

poo poo

poo poo

maybe you're right and gaming is a waste of life - I often think so - but what are you offering that is better?

Reality: virtual and otherwise

Anything one can not apply all senses to check (that would be everything beyond your reach, say a sphere about a meter in radius about your body) is still quite real if you can see, hear, smell or feel any physical vibrations from it. Usually we are thankful if all the different senses confirm an understandable and familiar object.

Artificial intelligence/Human interface is already so developed that even at the civilian level we can convince ourselves that we are "really" there. Imagine what realities a sophisticated military can create for it's well trained and slightly drug enhanced grunt especially if the consequences of destruction of the weapon he/she controls is limited to a replaceable robot drone: the grunt gets to learn from the mistake and the hardware and software folks get to build cheaper smaller faster versions of the weapon.

Not necessarily the best scenario for the "enemy" either combatant or innocent civilian nor (very likely) for the now well protected tax payer.

But that's where we are headed.

This technology is being taken seriously by anyone who did not descend from Ostrich
genetics.

No more so than otheres pationately involved in any past time

Stump:

Is this the same sense of sorrow you feel for someone who is an avid bingo player or a soccer nut or a rabid music fan. How about an art collector or somebody with a big wine cellar.

Why would you feel sorry at all for somebody who is passionate about something?

Yes, people can and do become addicted to different activities but I don't think that your average fanatic gamer comes under that category.

You must be a pretty sad individual feeling sorry for all these people. Lighten up!:>)

Video Game Addictions.

The first personal computer I bought was exactly the same as the one we used at work to run an automated production process. I bought the thing to upgrade my skills and advance my career. But the first night after getting the computer, I stayed up until 3:00 a.m. playing a video game that came with it. Very addictive.

After only 2 hours sleep, I had to get up again and head off to suffer through a full 8 hours of hard work plus another 4 hours of overtime. It was so sweet to finally get some sleep the next night. That episode cured me of video games for life.

So it was back to Plan A - learning how to interface the computer to production automation devices. It worked. Those new skills helped me advance my career and buy a house.

Horny young guys (is there any other kind?) should keep in mind that owning their own house by their early 20s generally provides a better boost to a guy's romantic life than living in their parents' darkened basement playing video games and eating stale pizza for the next 20 years. Real females are usually much nicer to be around than cartoon females on a computer screen.

Quote:Is this the same sense

I feel sorry for bingo players if they spend their grocery money on a low odds endeavour, and for sports fans who put too much stock in millionares playing a game. Music fans can incorporate their passion into their daily activities I suppose.

Art collectors and wine buffs may end up with a good investment if they pick right, so there's a potential pay-off monetarily as well as aesthetically.

Passion for... and addiction to, are two very separate states of mind IMO.

I'm not sad for gamers. I don't give it much more than a passing thought generally. There's enough real suffering in the world to feel bad about that the troubles of video gamers isn't keeping me up at night that for sure.

Again, what's the pay-off for being a good gamer? There must be a benefit for people to do it so much and not be addicted.

better alternatives

Volunteering in your community

Actively raising your kids

Playing real sports instead of virtual ones

Making a little extra money with a side business or p/t job

Improving your relationships with friends and family

Learning new skills

Sex

Drugs

Rock and Roll

Internet debating

Yoga

Housework (barely better I'll admit)

I'm sure theres' others. That's my list. And if I did any of those things in an addictive fashion (to the point where other aspects of my life were suffering) I'd say that's a problem too.

My biggest beef with video games is that many of them reward violence and anti-social behaviour as part of the game and are addictive.

I do like how they teach people to process information from multiple streams and react accordingly. I think the graphics are often amazing.

I also believe that the focus on the game play, the graphics, and the hardware is a very real example of the medium becoming the message. Whether that's good or bad I don't have an opinion on right this moment.

re: My biggest beef ...reward violence and anti-social behaviour

that's pretty much what adolescents are into - the mature gamers prefer either challenges to their cognitive skills (whether finding cover or solving puzzles) or like me great stories.

I am a massive fan of the Grand Theft Auto Series. While it get's a lot of idiotic press, the story and the missions in the game are truly nothing like anything else in gaming....the last game for big consoles, San Andreas was an amazing game where you can free roam over an entire state.

Sure you could kill prostitutes and steal their money IF YOU WANTED, but I don't. Like life, you can make choices of how you want to proceed - choice has become the big thing in gaming - does your character want to be good or bad? you decide...

BTW in San Andreas ( I grew up poor and in a criminal milieu and found a lot of resonance in the game - like a good book would reflect reality), In San Andreas, you are forced to work for corrupt cops, and go from a lowly street level guy screrwed by the cops and friends and grow into flying planes for government agencies, delivering cargo, you can be a parking valet, the personal growth of the character is fantastic...

If literary awards people had kept pace with the modern world (instead of being stuck in the 16th century!) San Andreas would be a masterpiece outclassing any of the recent a-to-b novels that are wrongly the only works considered...

peace out

literary works

Just to correct your mis-perception... some of the best works of literature, the ones that people will still be reading a century from now, far surpass mere a to b narrative, and convey subleties of emotion, thought and feeling that video games to date haven't even come near. That progression has been going on for centuries. To say that literature and/or the works which are recognized as outstanding are stuck in the 16th c. is not in fact anywhere near what the reality actually is.

As to GTA becoming a masterpiece, we'll have to wait and see if the diversion of video games has the same staying power as more traditional forms of story-telling and entertainment. Proclaiming it a fait accompli at this point seems premature.

good answer, Stump

Loved your answer about things to do, Stump, instead of war games.

Dale Jackman asked the question: "One wonders if the world's next Hitler will be a gamer." Duh...yeah! All psychopathic demoagogues are gamers.

I think the last Hitler was a gamer. As you might recall the character in my story was so in love with the spectacle of Nazi enterprises it didn't matter that Hitler was actually just a psychopathic comedian.
I always envisioned Hitler after one of his loony speeches saying: "They bought it. They actually bought it. "F...! These people are stupid. Toss them a bit of spectacle and they'll buy anything."

Problem is, to a psychopath life is only a game, in which the object is to get everything from other people.

So human beings shouldn't really play games about murder, rape, slaughter of police people or prostitutes and destruction of infrastructure assets.

These games only appeal to idiots. And they're dangerous to a certain part of the population which doesn't have a full complement of cerebral differentiation and tend to think of virtual life as real life, eh.

Its about the desensitization.

For things to do, see Stump's list.

truman you truly are an idiot

Would you ban the Godfather - books and movie since it depicts everything you seem to hate...you're simply way out of date and don;t want to admit to it.

Good article Ron

Nice to see a Tyee forum commentator write an article.

Glad I don't have an addictive personality (forum post 2,767)

Ron, actually I was under the impression (perhaps mistaken) that the number of women online gamers is pretty darn high.

I dunno guys

The vision of a 100,000 seat stadium full of young people (in South Korea) who've come to watch two gamers compete on huge screens seems pretty bizarre to me.

You might also want to check out the details of a murderous attack, this time in China, over stolen virtual property:

By Richard Spencer in Beijing
Last Updated: 12:57am BST 09/06/2005

China's obsession with online computer games has led to its first murder after one player killed another over a weapon that existed only in cyberspace.

The weapon, a "dragon sabre", was won as part of a game called Legend of Mir III by a 41-year-old from Shanghai, Qiu Chengwei. After winning it, players can use it to kill more characters or, as Qiu did, lend it to another player.

Qiu lent the sword to Zhu Caoyuan, 26, who sold it for 7,200 yuan, just under £500, which is five times the average monthly income in Shanghai.
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When Qiu found out, he took the argument into the physical world, reporting it as a theft. The police claimed they could do nothing, as the property was merely virtual.

Qiu then broke into Mr Zhu's house and stabbed the cyber-thief in the chest.

Qiu was given a suspended death sentence, meaning his execution will be commuted to life in jail if he behaves well for the next two years.

But Mr Zhu's father said: "My son was only 26 when he died. We want Qiu to die, and immediately."

from the Daily Telegraph.

Dragon sabre

Ya G but it was a dragon sabre for chrissakes. Those things don't grow on trees you know.

Mr Zhu was a jerk.

True Artists don't do cubicles

"Like it or not, gaming is the greatest art developped yet by humans. Those not understanding this are their own worst enemies." says MYBrain

I think my brother, who is an artist (painter) and has worked in the video game industry for about 8 yrs, doing animation and mo-cap (in San Jose, for Silicon Knights in Ontario, worked on Resident Evil) would highly disagree. He has never actually played a game in his life. He recently quit his job (earning almost 50 grand after one yr; he's self-taught by the way) because, as a true artist, he was feeling stifled. He was sitting in a cubicle day after day churning out boring animations, separated from other workers, in a huge multi-floored office complex, doing the very thing most artists strive NOT to do. I don't know if you are an artist, Mybrain, but I somehow doubt it.
Perhaps you and he should be having this discussion. As for not knowing what better to do with your time, I feel really sorry for you but I'm holding out that you are KIDDING on that one...

I wouldn't ban anything, mybrain

As to whether I'd ban books and movies because I hate the idea of war games...the answer is: What are you talking about?

Godwin's Law

You guys do realize that Godwin's Law was invoked in the first comment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

"The law states: 'As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.'
...
There is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress."

Thanks Frank

The Tyee has let me write for them a few times. This one was especially fun because games are pretty close to my heart. (Next to the clogged arteries.)

As for women games, the percentage of participants might depend largely on what you call games. Mrs. Yammer has approximately negative zillion interest in joining the kids and myself at Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom, but is a dab hand at Freecell. Console games have gotten so obscure in their control mechanisms that the mainstream audience is dissuaded. Hence, the genius of Nintendo. While Sony and Microsoft concentrate on longer games with spiffier explosions, Nintendo's really thought about ease of use. So I have actually caught my wife playing on the DS and confessing that Wii games look interesting.

Ron I'm surprised

I'm surprised you didn't mention the notorious incident of cyber rape in the MUD Lambda MOO. You must be familiar with Julian Dibbell's 1993 Village Voice article "A Rape in Cyberspace".

There are actually a host of interesting legal questions about property and other interests in virtual reality. Some of them were being explored in courses at the Law Schools in both Victoria and Vancouver.

You used to be able to read a version of Dibbell's article online, but I haven't been able to retrieve it today so I won't post the link.

Anyway, if you haven't already, see if you can find the details of how Mr Bungle 'raped' both lebga and Starsinger and the consequences that flowed from the 'events'.
Truly weird.

Sounds, uh, interesting

No, never heard of the cyber-rape. Darn, I was going to not Google this afternoon...

Video Exercise Games: Dance Dance Revolution, Sony GameBike etc.

For a lot of people, standard sedentary video games can be addictive and they can cause obesity. But games such as Dance Dance Revolution or the Sony GameBike can have the exact opposite effect. Video games that require vigorous whole-body physical input instead of just thumb-twiddling can go a long way toward improving physical health. These games can motivate as much exercise and coordination improvement as hockey without the repeated concussions, smashed teeth and broken necks. A further benefit is that the exercise component automatically limits time spent on games to a reasonable amount.

Anyone who's interested in this aspect might want to read a Friday, April 15, 2005 Globe & Mail article by Shawna Richer entitled "Video-game workouts make kids 'want to exercise'" The article describes how a kid in Nova Scotia weighed 193 pounds at age 13 as a result of spending 8 hours at a time playing Xbox. The kid's mother, Holly Bond, was motivated to set up a gym for youths (Bulldog Interactive Fitness) that's packed with combined video game / exercise machines. Hundreds of kids became members of the gym despite fees of $349 per year.

This looks like something that should be emulated at community recreation centres and school gyms. Video Game Exercise machines seem to be especially useful for badly overweight kids who don't mind competing against themselves but have lost interest in other sports as a result of the humiliation of always being chosen last by captains picking members for school basketball teams etc. There have been many impressive success stories of loner-type fat kids losing a lot of weight and becoming fit, coordinated and confident enough to be sought-after members of regular basketball teams after using video exercise games.

The Globe & Mail article is no longer available online for free, but here are a few links to "Energy Expenditure of Sedentary Screen Time Compared With Active Screen Time for Children," an interesting peer-reviewed scientific study showing the benefits of some video exercise games :

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/118/6/e1831 (pdf version)
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/6/e1831 (html version)
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/118/6/e1831 (abstract)

http://www.stepmania.com offers free Dance Dance Revolution type software.

Some detailed instrucions on making Home-Built Dance Dance Revolution Arcade Style Metal Pads:
http://www.digitaltorque.com/dancepad/instructions.html
http://www.digitaltorque.com/mydancepad/
http://www.angelfire.com/d20/ddrhomepad/

http://browse.files.filefront.com/SEARCH/;1441754;/browsefiles.html

This could be a good project for High School shop classes.

A few articles about Mickey DeLorenzo losing 9 pounds in 6 weeks and reducing his waist from 34.5" to 31" by playing Wii for 30 minutes per day :
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1584697,00.html
http://wiinintendo.net/2007/01/15/wii-sports-experiment-results/

Love the Beatmania games

Yeah, Dance Dance Revolution is great. I have been looking for the GameCube version for sometime.

What I really want is the Drummania game. I was playing it so much at one point (usually at Lions@Lair on Granville -- if anyone wants to check it out with me, I'll certainly arrange to show up) that half of my favourite songs were these weird Japanese pop tunes.

Video Game Law

Here's the guy you want to talk to Ron.

Jon Festinger, who teaches Law 449 (or at least he used to) - Media & Entertainment Law, also wrote 'Video Game Law'.

I thought it was an interesting read.

There's even a Video Game Law blog

You can find it here:
http://www.daledietrich.com/gaming/2006/06/