I quit reading the Sun and Province years ago. Nice to see nothing's changed. Must be a shock to anyone who thought Fraser Institute grads and the premier's brother would say anything bad about the Libs.

So British Columbia can anticipate a Golden Decade? Uh huh. From being pissed upon for the past 3-1/2 years?

Excellent analysis that shows us how the present one-sided Legislature came to be. It was an outcome of mass hysteria generated by an utterly one-sided media campaign directed by media controlled by the establishment. The extreme ideological government we have had to put up with since is the direct result.

no surprise ..all Canwest media is a pro Liberal slant....expect more BS to come as the day draws closer.

The corporate bias of the media is well documented. It is good that the internet is becoming the fastest growing source of news. This web site is a prime example. Everyone should have access to the internet and do their own research. Only then can true democracy occur.

In all the pages & pages of reportage and columns about the budget in the Sun, did anyone else besides me have trouble finding any mention of just how much money the government was proposing to spend in total? You know, the bottom line. Maybe I'm blind but I couldn't find it in two days of coverage. So I went to the government web site and downloaded the budget. I figure we taxpayers are going to spend $35 billion, and no thanks to the Sun for that information. How can a paper report on a budget without mentioning the size of it?

Vote with your money - never give the monopolistic mercenary bums at CanWest one cent of your money. Support the Tyee and any other alternative media, or the result will be the inexorable slow and painful death of our democracy.

Great piece, and SOOOOOO true about the management's bias, but one quibble: another factor in there not being much response from James is that there was not a lot of material issued by the NDP and James immediately after the budget and before The Sun's deadlines.

Great analysis--I'd like to see the same done in detail for CanWest's coverage of other key issues--education, health care, the state of our economy, etc. It was just a few weeks ago that all the CanWest apologists were going on about how open and diverse our Vancouver/BC media were, and how the monopoly held by one news corporation was having no effect on the quality of news or democracy... and how the feds should not interfere with regulation but "let the "market do what it does best"--as if market forces even apply in a monopolistic situation. They can't even get their own rules right... This is not something to be taken lightly, it undermines the very basis of freedom and democracy. CanWest's relentless manipulation of the average British Columbian on behalf of their political team has and will continue to deeply influence who runs our province and how it is run.

When you read the hypocritical article by Fazil and the article by Don Cayo, the Fraser Hottub retreads, you can only get a cynical taste and sense that we are indeed moving to an openly crooked society whose institutions have no integrity and where the Fith Estate is bought.

The one piece of good news on Canwest is that the Sun's subscriptions are continuing to dwindle. This is not so much because progressive people are fed up, but because it publishes such irrelevant tripe. Have you noticed how much sports and entertainment coverage gets to the front page these days? That's because it is cheap and easy to cover.

Name, good point on other comparisons, especially economics. I think that comparison would be an education on adjectives.

Again Gutstein has pulled the pages back and revealed more interesting stuff that was brushed between the lines at the Sun.

As the article states: "We expect the newspaper’s owner and his agents on the editorial board to express the paper’s opinions in the unsigned editorials." This point needs to be clearly emphasized to those people who read the occasional letter to the editor and cry that the papers are constantly and unfairly bashing the Liberals. The fact is that the Canwest/Global media empire actively promotes their own poltical agenda because it is in their best interest to do so (read "The Corporation" for further insights into this type of phenomenon). We need to promote small independent media outlets such as the Tyee soas to ensure some balance in not only news but also editorial opinions.

I'm always very suspicious of the shrill calls of 'bias' when discussing political commentary -- the word is an easy tool for any political stripe to attack an opinion it doesn't like -- although Gutstein is certainly right when he says the coverage is 'out of balance.'

Instead, give the paper the benefit of the doubt with me for a second, and I'll offer two other reasons for the weights. Perhaps there are more.

1. The NDP is profoundly disorganized. It's hard to mount a successful campaign against a budget, even one as shamelessly vote-grabbing as this one, when you only have a handful of MLAs to speak against it, a leader who is not a sitting member of the legislature and you don't have the budget of an Official Opposition. The Campbell Liberals, by contrast, had 33 MLAs to Dosanjh's 39.

2. Coverage is easier when done by press release. Getting budget documents leaked shows some chutzpah in the Sun's coverage; this year, we saw only staged shots of Finance Minister Colin Hansen in running shoes. That this throne speech was so widely covered suggests to me not a bias towards the Liberal's message, but a complete lack of ideas when it came to covering anything else. Simply put: it's shoddy journalism that appears as bias. CanWest papers have not seen an influx of right-wingers, they have seen an exodus of talent (see the The National Post for further insights into this type of phenomenon), and have become easy prey for anyone's propaganda machine.

I believe competition is the solution to these problems: a more balanced distribution of seats in Victoria would give the opposition a bigger voice in the media, more power to leak documents, and and more credibility; just one major daily paper, which was willing to take advantage of so many Vancouverites' disillusionment with the Sun and the Province, would cause these papers to shape up in no time.

hell; how do you do a paragraph break? sorry -- that's absolutely impossible to read.

Three keystrokes, < p >

No spaces, gives a one line paragraph break.

Excellent analysis. As an employee of CanWest in a different B.C. city, the corporatation's backing of the provincial Liberals has been especially galling.
As far as CanWest management is concerned the Cambpell gang can do no wrong. When I pointed out in a column how the Liberals were going to use provincial money to grease the skids for infrastructure programs, like the New Nanaimo Centre, my managing editor went ballistic. The column ran regardless but severely editted.

I often wonder why the disenfranchised don't attack the media as much as we do the government. Why aren't people picketing the Sun/Province offices? Why aren't boycotts being called for? Unionists, environmentalists, anti-poverty and human rights activists, are we so paranoid that somebody's going to say something bad about us in the paper, as if there was something worse the fascists on the editorial board could say?

J-dubs, how liberal of you in your interpretation of events. However, anyone in the least familiar with late 20th century journalism in North Amerrica would anticipate a "good" newspaper would at least play devil's advocate rather than masters' handmaid when the numbers are 76 to 3.

To suggest the NDP is at fault because it hasn't the resourses to respond quickly enough to artificial deadlines is a bit much.

Now, as for getting some documents leaked indicates smarts on behalf of Sun reporters . . . please.
Had you anticipated that any of the hundreds of communication staff employed in Gordon Campbell's office may have simply been trying to disseminate bullshit.

Based on what I've read in that paper, government staffers would be correct in assuming the Sun is the best place to peddle that stuff.

That says a lot more about cozy cooperation than it does about cutthroat competition.

Not that I would want to be an apologist for the Sun or CanWest, but I'm wondering why the more sceptical and quite prominent budget coverage by Vaughn Palmer is not registered in your analysis?

I would also like a comparison on economics, let me guess who your economist will be, Mark Lee?, from CFPA since he’s the only economist you can find that will agree with you.

In the article it states that Carole James received little attention and I think I know why. It could be because she will say," its bad, its wrong, done on the backs of the poor, just another broken promise". I have yet to hear her say anything else. Maybe if she came up with a few ideas or maybe even, gasp, a platform she would get some coverage. It’s easy to exclude someone when they don't say anything.

Is the Tyee a news source or an editorial source?

We also must put a stop to the Liberals investing in such ludicrous things as infrastructure.

"It’s easy to exclude someone when they don't say anything."

That's funny Jim, because I find that the liberals excel at dropping platitudes (New Era, Golden Decade, etc) and have no trouble finding media outlets willing to regurgitate their pap.

At the top of the front page of Today's Sun is a headline how the Liberals are on top of the NDP in a recent poll. That poll has an error rate of 4.5%. How can that be an accurate poll? With that error rate the Liberals 46% could be 41.5% and the NDP's 40% could actually be 44%.

Forget the New Era and the Golden Decade titles these titles represent a vision for the future. Albeit your opinion of the benefits of the vision vary, it was a vision none the less. What is the NDP vision for the future? How are they going to achieve these goals? What would they change and how are they going to change it? These are simple questions that have yet to be answered. The NDP have done nothing to warrant media coverage. I’m sorry but Carole James has done a whole lot of nothing so far. Like I said N, "It’s easy to exclude someone when they don't say anything."

Jim, I'm aware that NDP has yet to release a platform that you can scrutinize. That said, James hasn't exactly been mum on what they're bringing to the table -- removing union and corporate donations to political parties, freezing tuition fees for students while funding colleges and universities to the rate of inflation, balanced budgets, working with business AND labour, to name a few. How will they deliver it? I guess we'll have to wait for the platform to see, but to say James (and by extension her party) have nothing to say is, at best, disingenuous.

As for warranting media coverage, I'd say being the *ahem* official opposition is reason enough. Do you even see a role for an opposition party in this province? Wait don't answer that, I think I know the answer.

The Liberals seem to be planning for someone`s future, at the least. A 990 year lease for BC Rail is looking a bit ahead.

JIm, let's hear the details of these visions for the future. Care to tell us. And by the way how does a vision dissipate so quickly... What exactly happened to the New Era vision, that it is no longer mentioned not even in hushed tones, since being unceremoniously dumped from the BC Liberals website?

N ... what Carole James "brings to the table" isn't exactly a great deal. Removing Union & Coporate donations does nothing but help the NDP because individual union members still donate at the command of their union leaders. The cost of operating a quality post secondary institution doesn't increase at the rate of inflation - while minimizing increases sounds good on paper, not being able to afford quality institutions won't do our students any favours in the long run. Balanced budgets are the law, regardless of your political stripe. Working with business AND labour? Please, not in this province.

JIm, JIm, you're waking all the good socialist kids in the background with your rage. Take it easy, count slowly to 10 and get your mind of our Carole.

Should we be a tad suspicious of the McIntyre Mustel poll released on the HEALS of the Budget? Some thoughts:

The NDP were leading in December 04;

KWL's point about the huge margin of error speaks for itself;

By some weird coincidence the McIntyre half of Mustel is the shiny new woman candidate in West Van; Does this poll result drip with conflict of interest or what?

The 2005 Conservative, whoops, I mean, Socred, whoops I mean Liberal Campaign Chair used to own a polling firm and pride himself on how he could manipulate public opinion through polls and plaid shirts. Hmmm, I see a trend developing here;

Gordon's public opinion ratings are rather substandard.

So, I 'wonder' how the Campaign Chairman is going to dress Gordon in the upcoming months?

Propped up by the transparent CanWest media, maybe the Chairman should borrow my 'outfit' and have them put it on their front page. Mr. Campbell is going to need a great deal more than smoke and mirrors.

>> J-dubs, how liberal of you in your interpretation of events. However, anyone in the least familiar with late 20th century journalism in North Amerrica would anticipate a "good" newspaper would at least play devil's advocate rather than masters' handmaid when the numbers are 76 to 3.

Thanks, allan -- my point exactly. I'm not talking bias in a paper, I'm talking a paper that just broadcasts what it hears. What it hears overwhelmingly is a liberal machine that's very good at getting press. If we saw the leaked documents coming from the Campbell office just before the last election, then that's the machine in action. We didn't see any leaks this time. That could be because the papers just don't have the contacts in the NDP, or the NDP doesn't have the contacts in the papers -- it's the same result: the 'golden decade' headline when there should be something more interesting going on.

>>So over the next three months our friendly Liberal government will be handing out something like $250 million is public funding as a lead up to the election.

That's where the papers have been good in questioning -- "don't call it a slush fund, but..." one article said -- but poor in getting answers. Where is the money going? That, I haven't heard. Someone should find out.

>>That says a lot more about cozy cooperation than it does about cutthroat competition.

Which is why we need some more papers in this CanWest-starved Lower Mainland. If anyone's listening, I'd buy them...

AS I predicted Campbell is crowing about this all-too-conveniently released poll, and David Schreck writes today at strategicthought.com, detailing the never-ending disparities between Mustel and Ipsos-Reid polls, the latter always being more balanced in favour of the NDP. The next ipsos-reid poll is due in March. THe BC liars used strategically released Mustel polls all through their first year of cuts, always releasing a poll just BEFORE an upcoming vicious, unjustifiable cut. I predicted a Mustel bs poll about a week ago, directly following the budget, and sure enough...

JIm, stupid, why on earth would the NDP be so foolish as to release their campaign program before April 19, thereby giving media whores Canwest, excuse me, I meant to say, media pimps Canwest, three months to pick it apart together with gordon backstabber's obscenely bloated corporate and taxpayer funded slush fund? Why, JIm, they'd have to be as stupid as you to do that...

"Individual union members still donate at the command of their union leaders"

That's utter nonsense, people donate to political parties cause they want to, not because they're told to.

"The cost of operating a quality post secondary institution doesn't increase at the rate of inflation - while minimizing increases sounds good on paper, not being able to afford quality institutions won't do our students any favours in the long run."

You may have a point there, but putting those increases solely on the backs of students isn't working either. Liberals themselves have acknowledged this by halting tuition increases to the rate of inflation, too.

"Working with business AND labour? Please, not in this province."

Yes, I'm skeptical too, but Carol James is untested on this front. Gordon Campbell, on the other hand, has a track record that speaks for itself.

j-dub, I'm glad we are sort of on the same page as far as the need for a counter voice to the Asperisms we're now choking on.

But the Vancouver Sun has or had the diggers who can or at least could at one time find some balance for a story.

There are more than Carole James who can respond to a budget and that's the real rub.

Had this been an NDP budget there is no doubt the Board of Trade, Fraser Institute, Independant Business Association, Retail Council of BC, Jimmy Paterson, Ralph Klein and the not soon enough to be departing US ambasador Paul Celluchi would have added more than enough doom-n-gloom to cover for an absent politician.

Sorry, but suggesting this is all just about lazy reporters sounds like an excuse that would come from a lazy editor or lazy publisher.

This is a newspaper that now has a single columnist (no reporting staff), covering the legislature and, as good as Vaughn Palmer is (he is quite good), he churns out opinion as columnists are paid to do, not breaking news or even background news.

I remember watching the evening news as a teenager in the late sixties and at the end of each legislative day, the MLA'a and their party leaders would tumble out of the legislature and be met by a barrage of reporters, each asking them their take on the issues debated that day.

It gave each party a voice, without filtering or editing. It was lively, rarely scripted, and a regular part of each day's news coverage reported by the media.

Seems such a long time ago now, in a galaxy far, far, away... when news coverage was alive and still breathing.

This article should analyze the budget "directly" as opposed to indirectly analyzing the Asper family's opinion of the budget. We know the quality of the Asper family-controlled newspapers is poor, so what is the point in analyzing another poorly written article/story, when tomorrow's edition will bring more such articles/stories. It is strange how media sources quote one another instead of actually doing independant research.

In physics, there was a funny story about how everyone cited/quoted
a certain "original article". All future articles either quoted the "original article" or other articles that had been based on the “original article” and in time the contents of the “original article” were well known among physicists. One day a physicist did some research and found the “original article” to be incorrect, but was surprised since there were so many articles that said otherwise, but eventually the physicist discovered that all the articles that said otherwise were based on the “original article.”

Mr. Gutstein is my hero, plain and simple.

He's one of the few men who dares analyze and disseminate information so the rest of us can actually see the real story. I wish I could be back at SFU studying Communications again.

Professor Gutstein,

I commend you for undertaking a rigourous, professional analysis. One major problem of the comparative approach in the current context: Virtually the entire editorial team at the Sun has changed since 2001.

Norman Spector, no doubt a lot of former Sun stafers have moved on, but Gutstein's article wasn't analysing individual journalists or even comparing those who were with those who now are.

He was comparing budget coverage of two specific governments by one newspaper.

The concern is over the final product, coverage of the budget in the Vancouver Sun.

It really hasn't anything more to do with who wrote the articles than it has with who delivered the papers to the carriers.

By the way, 2001, wasn't that just after the Aspers took control?

Same owners, same editorial policies, but definitely not the same treatment.

I'm not referring to staff changes; I'm referring to the editor-in-chief and editorial board changes. I'll be interested in Professor Guttstein's response to this methodological problem.

Norman, I honestly don't see how this is relevant, doesn't it illustrate Guttstien's point that much more? As allan put it above, "Same owners, same editorial policies, but definitely not the same treatment," no matter who is editor-in-chief.

Furthermore, it seems hardly surprising that the editor-in-chief would share ownerships views on politics. They hired him/her after all.

Until the professor responds, I guess you're left with my response Norm.

Editorial board writers probably have even less flexibility than do reporters who churn out the copy for the Sun.

Again, it doesn't matter who is tapping the keys, the editorial is going to fall within the same limited view the publishers and owners want or it won't get published.

As for editors in chief, I've been under the impression over the past few years they too toe the line or look for work.

I realize the editor in chief of the Globe&Mail has wide latitude on editorial direction and it shows in the end product. A good newpaper for Canada.

Funny, but I haven't seen too much divergance from the Winnipeg view of life in any Can/west newspapers. Would it be that the editors-in-chief get the same training as the lowly seals who actually produce things?

Right; I'll wait for the professor; I'll be interested to see if he, too, misunderstands the power that Neil Reynolds wielded at the Vancouver Sun or diminishes the importance of subsequent changes in the editorial board.

Am I right in thinking that US ambasador Paul Celluchi should be sent home? Hasnt he been telling the Canadian government what to do?
Isnt that overstepping his boundarys?
The Sun is just doing what it was paid to do.
"the best place in the world to work" bribary scandal insured that. How many millions of BC taxpayers money was transfered to the media in that venture? Perhaps someone might do the figures? How much for a full page add in every paper for all that time and all the TV coverage that went on? Any guesses?
As they say, "he who pays the piper calls the tune".

Though it's very likely too much too hope for, there are now rumours of a possible Canwest strike during the BC election by Canwest unions...wouldn't that be delicious synchronistic irony?...let's hope at the least some asper policy wonk editor gets his chestnuts roasted on an open fire.

Norman Spector: Canwest editorial pages are disgrace. The province "newspaper" has recently appointed global-warming deniar, and imported Brit "talent" jon ferry as editorial chief of that newspaper's editorial pages. Word is still out about ferry's "views" on flat earth theories. The only western Canwst editorial page that even remotely approaches fairness is the Victoria Times Colonist's and it's editorials remain highly biased towards the BC liars. The Sun's free forums to thr fraser institute, marke milke and othrer rightwing shills are NOTORIOUS, and should be the subject of investigation...I wonder if the sun will ever have the courage to allow a rebuttal from its endless propaganda before the next election on its editorial pages, as the Times-Colonist often does with Adrian Dix, Sean Holman or Paul Ramsey...the sun and the province are disgraceful newspapers, unfit for a democracy...

Norman, your biggest problem is that you always end up trying to defend the undefendable in your efforts to prop up the extreme conservative edges of Canada's body politic.

However, I must say you are far less shrill than your fellow bookend apologist for the establishment, Rex Murphy.

But then Rex writes and states what's in his heart, rather than what he thinks the establishment wants to hear.

Thanks for the comparison Donald. As with many others, I quit reading the 'rags' a number of years ago but it's always good to see a breakdown of the joke that they make of the news.

Allan,

I'm more convinced than ever that I should wait for the Professor's comments. Do you think he's avoiding my critique?

Norman, I am curious about your thoughts re: the perception of conflicts I refer to above concerning McIntyre and Mustel's poll results, given that Ms. McIntyre is a B.C. Lib candidate in West Van.

What is your opinion about the margin of error, and the timing of this particular poll, given that you worked with the Lib 2005 Chairman (former pollster) in another govt.?

Norm, I think the good professor is quite capable of understanding a rhetorical question when he sees one.

But then he might have a sense of humour.

Like another commenter (above), I quit my subscription (and reading) the Sun mopnths ago and haven't missed their dismal coverage one bit!

But on the issue of biased coverage, be aware that there's a Senate committee looking at Canada's media industries, including the issue of concentration of ownership. E-mail comments can be sent to:

Why don't you read what he wrote, Norman, and offer some real critcism instead of this allusion to some study of methods. Gutstein was simply comparing the coverage of Dosanjh’s 2001 budget and Campbell’s 2005 budget. Your question had nothing to do with this.

If the newspapers are now more biased because of a new editor-in-chief or editorial board, that has nothing to do with the point. The coverage favored the BC Liberals both 4 years ago and also now. Methodology is not an issue. Read the article, it does not require some rigorous mathematical analysis to see that Dr Gutstein has made a good point. Anyone, with any intelligence, reading the Vancouver papers will agree with him.

Wonderwoman, Good question. I'm suspicious about all pollsters--especially when I see them quoted in newspapers interpreting the results of their numbers. I believe all pollsters should have to disclose how much business they do with governments and any other potential conflicts of interest, along with data about sample size, etc. Are you also saying that this poll was not part of a regular sequence by Mustel? If so, and it's true, that would be a very intresting observation--to say the least.
Allan, In the absence of a response from Professor Gutstein to my methodological critique, I will conclude that his article is a good example of the quality control problem in the blogosphere. Frankly, I do not believe his article would have made it past the editorial process at the Globe and Mail--the paper with which I am most familiar.

Gee Norm, I guess this article wouldn't make it past the editorial process at the Province or Sun either. But the term "quality control" applied to Canwest papers or programs is pretty much of an oxymoron.

Norm, the BC pathological liars have used Mustel polllls as a crutch ever since being elected. Whenever they were about to introduce a particuliarly vicious assault on the vulnerable after Black Thursday, they CONTINUALLY released Mustel polls just BEFORE the assault, so that their approval ratings would be artificially inflated. And now we have Evie Mustel, running for North vancouver bc liberal mla, with her connections to (and continued employment at??) her father's company not even mentioned, during the Sun's release of the poll. These are actions reminiscent of totalitarian governments. It must be tiresome, "defending the indefensible," as Allan so aptly put it. Have you considered looking for a cleaner line of work, Norm??

Norm: The particular timing of the release of the poll; the individuals involved: both Kinsella and Mustel (both pollsters at heart); the unknown sample size as you point out; where the 'samples' were taken contributing to the large margin of error etc. etc.; ALL adds up to be a STINKY scenario: Not good politics. Not even smart politics.

Here's a GOOD idea: Would you write an article for the Tyee regarding these "interesting observations"? I know your insight regarding this situation would be revealing and it is obvious that participants on the Tyee enjoy yourpoint of view.

Question for Norman Spector: Is it your assertion that any comparative analysis of an institution or product is only worthy if the leadership of that institution or company remains static? For example, that would end any comparative analysis of public schools since their principals change on a very regular basis.

BC Major Media = Goebbels Propaganda Ministry?

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goeb62.htm

Chris H, In any comparative analysis, certain variables are held constant. Professor Gutstein's piece purports to look at the same newsaper's coverage of two budgets, but in fact he's looking at two different newspapers, given the significant changes at the Sun between 2001 and 2005. A comparison of the Globe and Mail's 2001 budget coverage to the Sun's 2005 budget coverage is of course possible, but it would be a very different article and lead to very different conclusions. As an academic, Professor Gutstein should acknowledge that he's almost in that realm of comparison, though obviously not fully given that secondary factors remained constant at the Sun. I'll be referring to the shortcomings of Professor Gutstein's analysis in a forthcoming column, probably next week, because I think it highlights a problem with online pubications and the blogosphere in general.

This is sooo easy. DON'T BUY THE DAMN PAPER!!

Oh!! TWO completely different papers, Norm. Well that explains everything. Like the two completely differnt papers, the early Vancouver Sun, that during the Mathew Vaudrille tragedy ran daily column by Trevor Lautens, opining that the entire NDP caucus should resign, and the NEW Vancouver Scum, that refused to even suggest that the child, Cody's death could have something to do with BC liar cutbacks. The Sun and Province have always been second rate shill newspapers. It's just that under their new neo-con job ASPERations, they've gotten unbelievably far worse. A less than compelling argument, oh specter of norman...

CanWest is doing quite a number on Carol James already.Phase One:Give her virtually no press,allow her no opinions,pictures..nada.Phase Two:Complain about how "silent" and she is on the issues."What does she stand for"? "Who is she"? Now the media is talking about how she's now in the dangerous position of being an unknown entity.Gee do ya think? What a pack of scumbags.

It seems pointless to have these discussions when you can't trust Gordon Campbell and his clones. Last election was full of lies and deceit to get elected, and most likely this one is the same. People fall for it every time. Debating promises is so pointless nowadays, as they simply lie too much. The Liberals have proven they can lie well. Now it's Carols' turn.

Norman, I could not disagree with you more. Prof. Gutstein was doing a comparative analysis of the Vancouver Sun brand. If in fact, the Vancouver Sun is a completely different product than it was four years ago, maybe they should change their branding. With your logic, it would be impossible to do a comparative analysis of HP products last year to this year because they fired their CEO. Obviously, HP is a completely new company, eh? The Vancouver Sun has been hostile to the NDP in the past and remains so. That some of their inputs into their product (i.e. editors/journalists) have changed is irrelevant when comparing the different years of the same branded product. Quite possibly, you think that the executive editors are more important than the brand. How many subscribers do you think know who those people are? You think they read the Sun because of a particular individual? Come on, what is your agenda here Mr. Spector?

Good point about Trevor Lautens hombre.

Norman doesn't even follow his own rules on his own blog. He constantly attacks the Toronto Star and CBC brands even though the people behind the scenes do in fact change now and then.

Frank, If you check my blog today you'll see a reference to the new editor-in-chief and how he's influenced the editorial line. It's not the first. Chris, anyone who thinks the editor-in-chief does not have enormous influence on the coverage does not understand how newspapers work. I'm still waiting to hear from Professor Gutstein. As an expert in journalism, I'm sure he would appreciate the power of the editor. I doubt too he'd agree with your statement that he was comparing the brand's coverage--if this were the case, a change in ownership would not matter either.

Gustein doesn't mention, even once, who owns the Vancouver Sun. It is clear that he is doing a comparative analysis of the Vancouver Sun brand. Does the editor-in-chief have a huge influence on the paper? Sure he/she does. However, so do the engineers who design the Ford Mustang model. Simply because the same enginneers didn't build them all doesn't mean that there are methodological problems in comparing the model's different years. The Vancouver Sun is a product, and that is what he was doing a comparative analysis of. Not the editor, not the owner, not the journalists. Your methodology "problem" with his article is simply a red herring as far as I'm concerned. The Vancouver Sun brand has always been perceived as the "businessman's" paper in BC. That it would continue to expose a right-wing perspective is hardly surprising. It is also fairly evident that very few people actually read editorials, and mostly read the "news" part of the paper. Perhaps, this is what Gustein was trying to get at with his article to show that bias is not only confined to the editorial page. If Gustein was trying to compare editors, surely he would have mentioned a few names. You think?

Chris: Maybe the Sun has been the "Business" paper in modern times, but keep in mind the historic Sun (pre-Southam) was actually the scrappy, working-man's paper, especially while under independent local ownership with the Cromies, while the Province (Southam since the early 20th century) was the staid businessman's read until the tabloid conversion in 1983. See Marc Edge's excellent book "Pacific Press: The Unauthorized History of Vancouver's Newspaper Monopoly" for background.

That said, I agree that Gutstein's perfectly within his rights to compare the Sun's coverage of the NDP government to the Liberals. The ownership and editorial changes haven't altered the Sun's overall bend in recent years.

Mr Spector, you've staked out a losing position. As guys like Chris have explained, Gutstein's analysis of the Sun's coverage of budgets is perfectly valid. Just as your blog's criticisms of the Star and CBC are valid even though the people behind those organizations change. But there's no way you're going to be able to argue one criticism is valid and the other isn't.

I think that maybe we have missed a point. So the Sun has a bias toward the Libs.. that is clear. Fizal and Don Cayo both have worked wityh right wing think tanks, OK and what gets reported (or not) can have a different slant to it. The Brandon Sun was just as biased a hundred years ago under Sifton. For me, the bigger issue is that the Sun (ie Canwest Global) is really the only big name in town. With all due credit to The Tyee & The Georgia Strait that may have a different bent to them, they collectively do not make nearly as big a splash in the minds of the public as the Sun, the Province and the Canwest media outlets all trumpeting the same orientation. Yes, Vaughn Palmer may critize and Mike Smyth may even occasionally be less than glowing but the orientation is overwhelmingly Lib's good-NDP bad.

We need less concentration of ownership in the media in Canada, certainly in BC ,and then we may get some decent discussion of issues before the public.

I think that maybe we have missed a point. So the Sun has a bias toward the Libs.. that is clear. Fizal and Don Cayo both have worked wityh right wing think tanks, OK and what gets reported (or not) can have a different slant to it. The Brandon Sun was just as biased a hundred years ago under Sifton. For me, the bigger issue is that the Sun (ie Canwest Global) is really the only big name in town. With all due credit to The Tyee & The Georgia Strait that may have a different bent to them, they collectively do not make nearly as big a splash in the minds of the public as the Sun, the Province and the Canwest media outlets all trumpeting the same orientation. Yes, Vaughn Palmer may critize and Mike Smyth may even occasionally be less than glowing but the orientation is overwhelmingly Lib's good-NDP bad.

We need less concentration of ownership in the media in Canada, certainly in BC ,and then we may get some decent discussion of issues before the public.

Frank,

Not only can I argue that, but I am at this very minute arguing in a column I am writing on the blogoshphere that Professor Gutstein's analysis is flawed. gj--you're right: that what's the discussion should be about.

gj, that's what the discussion is always about. Bias of the big paper. Even the biggest Tyee booster knows there's a magnitude of difference between the biggest daily newspaper and a weekly webzine.

The Tyee is alternative media. What its "alternative" to is the Sun and Province. Regardless of size and reach, The Tyee is a breath of fresh air to me.

Mr Spector, will that column be linked to in your daily press review? If its in the Sun I won't be able to read it and I'd like to read your full argument since you're not convincing me here.

Yes, I post all my Sun, Globe and Le Devoir columns on my website, Norman's Spectator.

Does anyone remember the good old days when people complained bitterly that Conrad Black was running the Southam chain as a conservative propaganda machine? Then along come the Aspers, and the problem gets, if anything, somewhat worse!

I don't think all of the focus should be on press and media ownership, but that is certainly part of it. A lot has to do with the attitudes of the advertisers who are, after all, the real customers, the real paying customers, of the commercial mass media. If business advertisers are demanding a certian line be taken, it's going to be real difficult for the media businesses to resist whatever their ownership structure may be. Still, you look to countries in Europe where it takes just as much capital to own a newspaper or magazine or broadcasting licence as it does here. And yet they have at least some diversity in opinions among the major news organizations. Why not in the US and Canada, save the NY and LA Times and one or two others? Perhaps our business elite is simply too insecure and too authoritarian to tolerate a diversity of opinions.

One additional point. I would like to see Don Gutstein do a comparative analysis of the Asper-owned TV outlets and the Liberal-owned CBC. Which is more solicitous of the BC and Federal Liberals? I ask because I am tired of the CBC's endless promotion of the Liberal Party, which became particularly obvious in last June's federal election.

Tim, the Vancouver Sun may have been the "working man's" newspaper as you claim back then, but the U.S. was once the very epitome of all things democratic too.

Things change. Shit happens.

Today we see the desperation of right-wing journalists and columnists shamelessly trying to promote themselves to progressive audiences such as the Tyee's because the typical working man or woman is beginning to catch on that the Sun isn't worker friendly.

When the whores begin to congregate it's time to get suspicious of what's being offered for free.

Not to mention the increase in SOCIAL diseases, like neoliberalism, media transmitted diseases like STV, and endless corporate PIMPING...the Vancouver Sun is a disgrace and a major vector of media transmitted social pathogens, in the great pandemic of the neo-liberal virus, in the plague zone of BC, Year of Our Gord...we need a Carol James vaccination, and unending purging and cleaning of our corrupted media and social and economic bodies...let us excise these filthy, cancerous gangrened growths on the corpus of the BC body politic...

the aspers have told their editors to take big business' and the globilizations line any time they can, to promote big business' corporate agendas.. it's more important that their will is done than freedom of speech in the canadian democracy ... they are traitors to their own country and the people of canada should boycott their papers and tv and radio stations ... the national ndp should call for the boycot and desolving of their monopoly

the aspers have told their editors to take big business' and the globilizations line any time they can, to promote big business' corporate agendas.. it's more important that their will is done than freedom of speech in the canadian democracy ... they are traitors to their own country and the people of canada should boycott their papers and tv and radio stations ... the national ndp should call for the boycot and desolving of their monopoly

Based on falling sales figures i think a lot of people are already boycotting the Sun and Province. I know I am. But I think the NDP should stay out of it since its the whole centre and left that are being ignored in the pages of the Sun and Province. I consider myself pretty moderate and I can't read the constant right-wing drivel of the Fraser boys who seem to be considered "mainstream" in both papers.

Look, we can argue till we drop. Simple solution to making a change at the Sun - stop buying their papers. I did - and I don't regret it one bit.

Norm, The Tyee benefits from your perspective and your usually intelligent comments. In this case, however, you made an entirely valid -- though hardly pivotal -- point about the change in editorial leadership at the Sun, and then got swept away with your own self-importance. In framing your comments as questions, you've implied that Gutstein owes you an explanation, which is quite an assumption. Gutstein hasn't responded to any of the dozens of other worthy comments posted here. It can be argued that he has no business in a readers' feedback forum; he's already had his say.

The Globe doesn't publish every reader comment that gleefully -- or rudely -- points out omissions in your columns, nor does it publish your responses to reader questions and criticism. Those brave souls who publish in The Tyee face far more spirited and transparent scrutiny than anyone who publishes in the mainstream media, and readers like you are part of that. Sure, the quality of information in many blogs is suspect, but that's hardly a sound basis for sweeping conclusions about "the blogosphere". In most cases the flaws can be easily exposed if anyone cares enough. That's certainly not always true in our mainstream media, espcially when competition is lacking.

What to include or leave out of a report is often a highly subjective call, especially when you're trying to be succinct, and I'm sure you've sweated over those choices yourself. I was once jointly responsible for a story of more than 30,000 words inflicted on the Globe's readership--yes, it got past the editorial board and the legal team and won awards and still our dear readers found many valuable points that we hadn't mentioned.

So, this brings us back to the value of readership feedback and the contribution that you and many, many others bring to The Tyee.

Name, You raise a valid point about the msm not accepting readers' letters, but I'm not sure it therefore follows that the Tyee should follow the same regrettable standard. I think the point turns on whether failure to recognize the significant changes at the Sun is a "point" left out, or whether it undermines the comparative analysis. I'll reflect on that further and would welcome your thoughts.

Gutstein's point, as I understand it, is essentially that the comparison shows a constistent bias against the NDP in the Sun's news pages over time. So the fact of internal change during this period doesn't seem (to me) highly relevant, since it didn't change the apparent pattern. If instead Gutstein was describing a shift in bias and linking it to some other cause, then ignoring the internal changes would have undermined the core integrity of his argument.

Meanwhile, rumours that the Sun has hired hotshot blogger Sean Holman (of Prem Vinning & Doug Walls fame) to cover provincial politics suggest that this debate may not be over. Could the Sun's new leadership be responding to the intense criticism being voiced on sites like this one and on Sean's own "Public Eye"? He's a terrific young reporter and I thought his blog was another very good example of just how effective this medium can be in showing where the traditional news sources may be selling us short.

Name, We agree on the Holman hire. On the first point, Gutstein is comparing coverage of an NDP budget and a Liberal budget, keeping constant the newspaper which, I would argue, is not a constant. If Gutstein were examining your hypothesis--that there's a consistent bias against the NDP in the Sun--he would have had to look at more than a sample of two budgets and over a longer period of time to make the case. I'm old enough to remember when the Sun was biased against a right of centre government, as was BCTV. And don't get me started on the Province in those years!

Now that the Fraser boys have bought off Sean Holman I won't be reading him. Getting used to his paypacket will pretty much ensure Sean will join the Canwest Chorus and be blaming the BC NDP for global warming within 3 months.

Gutstein's article was to the point. Who is going to read a 20 page essay? It is clear where Mr. Spector and I differ. I view the Vancouver Sun as a product. Mr. Spector, on the other hand, believes the Editor-in-chief of the paper to BE the product. If that was the case then he has a good argument. Perhaps Journalists see themselves differently than the public does.

Not sure I agree, Norm, but as I said, it's subjective. If you distrust the hypothesis to start with, or if it goes against "conventional wisdom", you'll naturally demand a far higher standard of proof. There's no golden formula for this, so it comes down to the collective wisdom of your editorial leadership (or readership); the extremes are obvious to all but it's pretty grey near the middle. That's what these debates usually boil down to. I need little convincing, so I suspect that's where we differ.

Name, You've put your finger on it. Each of us perceives bias in the media relative to our preconceptions, though I'd like to think we're open to reconsidering our opinions in light of new information. What caught my attention in this case is that Gutstein is an academic and he's presented as such in his tag line. If one of my first year university students in communications had presented this analysis, I would have flunked him.

About 50 submissions up someone astutely commented "why don't more people protest canwest"
Well the first thing you can do is goto the crtc website and follow the links to the complaint dept. There you can submit, by email, an official complaint each time canwest pulls its twisted, unethical shenanigans. A canwest editor must respond by law! If enough people do this all of the time it will atleast tie up faceless canwest editors from pathetic liberal ass-kissing.

i've boycotted the canwest shit-rags for years. "be" how involved is the complaints process at the crtc site? i think that is a great idea.

While I am not trying to refute the conclusions of the piece, I must say the methodology is questionable. The general sentiment in 2000/2001 towards the NDP was unique from the current sentiment towards the Liberals (both are negative, but there is an issue of degree). This makes general comparison difficult. Try looking at 95 or 96 to get a more accurate impression of what portion of the difference in coverage is attributed to the paper, and what is attributed to the general sentiment of the day. To overlook such a key variable inflates your results and likely confuses two causes as one.

While I am not trying to refute the conclusions of the piece, I must say the methodology is questionable. The general sentiment in 2000/2001 towards the NDP was unique from the current sentiment towards the Liberals (both are negative, but there is an issue of degree). This makes general comparison difficult. Try looking at 95 or 96 to get a more accurate impression of what portion of the difference in coverage is attributed to the paper, and what is attributed to the general sentiment of the day. To overlook such a key variable inflates your results and likely confuses two causes as one.

Gutstein doesn't point to any causes. He is merely pointing out a similiar trend. It's great that you are an expert on "general sentiment" Grey, but I thought he was doing a comparative analysis of the NEWS pages, not the editorial page. Should sentiment have any effect on reporting the news? Professionalism used to mean something in the journalist's world, but I don't think it means a heck of a lot today. All I want is some unbiased and fair coverage. Is that too much to ask for? It seems it is for the Vancouver Sun.

Biases are not the problem. I think the problem has more to do with the subjugation of an honourable duty to other interests, in favour of those biases.

Journalism has a function, to inform. To protect society from abuses of power, and from theft and corruption among the rulers and those who influence them. It is bound to that function by a public duty. This is basic stuff. We've all agreed about this, except those who have been prevented from misbehaving by the proper performance of that protective function.

Everybody has biases. That's good, it promotes debate. But when a group denies their duty and journalism becomes a tool to prevent debate, we are in deep trouble. All the other checks and balances to power are in their direct control; laws, bookkeepers, records. Only journalism is independent. Only journalism can hold up a standard for comparison, relate what's happening and show the people what's what with their leaders.

Except they're not. They're even arguing that the concentration of media in a single interest group's exclusive control is good and necessary.

The only explanations I can think of for that little piece of nonsense are not good at all.

"Only journalism can hold up a standard for comparison, relate what's happening and show the people what's what with their leaders," offers Bailey.

I would certainly agree with you Bailey if you are speaking about theory. Unfortunately, like many theories, this one doesn't get beyond the in-practice gate before stumbling.

Journalists who work for large (and small) media are anything but free to write as they wish. Yes, if they wish to toady to the boss and support his or her causes they can write on and on and on.

If the journalist becomes a columnist he or she may also write what they want, but if the columnists wants to write four or five days a week rather than the superficial once a week, the subject will inevitably be presented in a fashion the piper prefers.

Bailey we are both reading and participating in The Tyee because we are aware that conventional media is not delivering what it promises.

We have each read the criptic comments from unnamed Sun, Province et/al based reporters who admit here they are stifled in their day jobs and would love to spill the beans about the shit that goes on inside the industry.

Unfortunately, like most people who work for others, they have bills to pay and children to raise to say nothing of spiteful editors who resent being reminded that they are among the oppressors.

But Step outide the narrow confines of the bosses message box what the red pencil go to work.

The last sentance in my message above should have been edited out. Sorry
Allan

That's OK allan. I, heck many of us, would benefit from the services of a good editor. And I know what you mean about the need to pay the bills.

I wasn't saying that all media should fail to serve a point of view. That would be a futile standard to promote. They have enough trouble just maintaining the two sources rule. No. But there absolutely have to be enough different owners promoting various points of view to make sure that all interests can be represented. From the lunatic fringe on both ends through all the levels in between.

That way somebody can test the realities any way they wish, and make choices from an informed place. It's the concentration that gives control to the same interests who 'contribute' to parties and politicians that leads to the danger.

You're dead right about why we all read and contribute here. This new medium will be hard to steal control of. Even in it's infancy, the power to communicate and reason here is strong. Right now, these sites are the real official opposition in BC. The only ones who fulfil that function here, anyway. I believe the Liberals, who thought they had sewn up all opposition, might be quite choked about it.

It really warms the heart to hear them squirm to avoid answering questions, after they worked so hard to avoid having to answer them in Question Period.

Bailey, it certainly does warm the heart. But even as I read these responses I wonder who among these posters are pulling down a full time government communications officers' income.

Norman, I read your column on bloggers. It doesn't explain your position against Mr Gutstein any better. I have no idea where you got your data to make the assertion that most Cdn journalists hew to the left. One among many assertions that are also not backed up with any evidence.

Then the old horse you've ridden often, complaining about intellectuals who follow US politics. Why? It has no relation to blogging.

Although your spelling was excellent you failed to stick to a single issue and therefore failed to make a point. I wouldn't mark this column very highly if I was the one marking it :)

Frank, I also noticed he bragged about having ratted out Gwyn Dyer, who incidently may be the best columnist or commentor in Canada to turn to if you want straight, unfettered detail on international politics that have any links to military or weapons issues.

Oh well, it's dog-eat-dog out there these days, isn't it?

Here's a point of interest in this debate: while the Vancouver Sun and Province attempt to get by without a dedicated legislative reporter in Victoria, Black Press has just posted a position for a legislative bureau reporter for its chain of 80-some community papers across the province (www.jeffgaulin.com). Just think -- the Quesnel Cariboo-Observer and the Bowen Island Independent will have the same kind of legislative presence as the Sun. Community papers already have far superior readership across B.C. (75 per cent of adults read the last edition compared to 50-odd per cent who read the last daily) just by covering council spats and minor hockey scores; if they can offer the provincial news coverage to match the big boys (not difficult), it could make it even more interesting...

(Disclosure: I work in community newspapers, but not for Black or Canwest).

Interesting that the Vancouver Sun, which I despise, has recently hired the relatively unbiased Sean Holman, he of The Public Eye, isn't it, as a probably temporary hire during the upcoming election campaign...Is this a good thing, or is Holman far less bised than I am presuming...I'd apppreciate any feedback on this, although it may be too early to tell yet what holman's going to be like...

I've been a big Holman fan -- but I fear for either his writing or his job security now. I'd say most journalists and even line editors aren't biased - or if they are, they work hard against it.. But somewhere along the line, the assignments that go out and the copy that comes back in (and the pages that stories run or don't run on) are handled by people who either share the owner's preoccupations or live in fear of going against them. It really does come down to ownership. We'll see how long the Holman experiment lasts and how it ends.

Frank, You'll find the column in today's Vancouver Sun. Allan, Re Gwynne Dyer: ask yourself what would have happened had the media exposed a politician or a senior public servant for "burnishing" their resumes since 1999.

Thanks, cub. I guess we can only wait and WATCH...

Your column in today's paper got me thinking, Mr. Spector. I did, however, dismiss my first thought on how they should rename The Vancouver Sun to "The Patricia Graham Daily." If in fact your assertion has merit, and that the senior/executive editors (or whatever they are labelling themselves today) ARE the product, then shouldn't we know something about them? I have been a Vancouver Sun reader and subscriber on and off for quite a while now and could easily identify the paper as being characteristically the same five years ago as it is today. Sure, they have made some minor cosmetic changes, but the general tone, look, and bias of that publication has remained quite static in my opinion. Why would any new editor-in-chief change what is perceived to be a winning formula? It is all about the bottom line no matter what you believe. They are in the newspaper business to sell a product and make money. I'm sure they enjoy the relative monopoly they have in BC's daily newsprint. But, Who are these people? According to you, these are the people who Gutstein should be analyzing. What outside organizations do they belong to currently or in the past? Do they hold membership in any political organizations? What sort of opinion pieces have they written in the past? If someone did this, my feeling is they'd reach the same conclusions as Gutstein did in the above article. I bet these people tend to be former members of the Fraser Institiute (or like organizations) who have written opinion pieces that argue in favour of right-wing agendas, and have never voted for a party like the NDP in their life. I'm sure you could find some exceptions (as with everything in life), but I, unlike you, Mr. Spector, read the Vancouver Sun news section and editorial page on a fairly regular basis and can make my own conclusions without the need to know who the Editor-in-chief is. Thanks for your generous "fairly articulate" critique of my postings in the column, but like it or not, everyone here has something to contribute. I don't always agree or appreciate what people write online, but it does give me greater insight on topics when I read forums such as these. Now why do I feel like I'm going to be graded for what I write here? ROFL!

High marks for Chris H. Your time in the debating club has been well spent!

B- for content, lots of nice points, politely and respectfully made.

A- for typing. Paragraphs are made by inserting < p> (without any spaces, just three keystrokes).

A for grammar, except what's ROFL?

spectors points deserve a response,gutstein should at least offer a solution to his problem.
rhetoric seems to be a policy in the ndp platform.
i,m on the fence.

The column is posted at http://members.shaw.ca./nspector4/vansun87.htm
< p> The column referred to in the first paragraph is posted at http://members.shaw.ca./nspector4/vansun88.htm < p> and here's my Globe column on blogs: http://www.members.shaw.ca/nspector4/globe87.htm

The problem with NDP and like-minded supporters is the complete inability to accept criticism of any kind. Whenever media reports something negative about the NDP it is always “biased” as if the NDP could do no wrong. Look at that idiot Schreck, he was part of the worst government in the history of the Province, and now he spends all of his time piddling away on his little website trying to re-write the 90’s as if to imply he and the NDP were really some kind of hero’s and the entire Province got it all wrong.

My personal favorite is Carole James “new” doctors shortage announcement – once again forget the fact that the NDP did nothing to train more doctors in BC (and I mean nothing as in zero - not one) and so now we have this shortage, thanks to the NDP. The NDP did nothing here in the 90’s it is a well-documented fact. Now the media will report on the typical NDP hypocrisy of having created this doctor shortage and now offering a solution that does not deal with the real problem - a decade of neglect courtesy of the NDP. Naturally when the media reports the real facts, (zero new doctors spaces for a decade) the NDP supporters will cry bias. Here is my challenge to Mr.Schreck – let’s see one of those famous graphs showing how many new doctors training spaces that the NDP added in the 90’s vs. how many are being added today? Let’s watch Schreck try to re-invent this wheel as well. I can’t wait.

Not one doctor space was added. Not one.

Norman,

Thanks for providing the link to the column referred to in the first paragraph of your latest Sun column.

Your column from March 4th reminds me that insight and balance can come from opinions further to the right than my own.

With the provincial election coming up my question is this: Where are the moderate voices?

Has British Columbia become so polar that there is no centre? Or is the centre simply pragmatic and willing to work with the extremists who govern our province?

Has the "middle of the road" voter simply stopped caring?

Michael

It's easy to despair, listening to some of the rants on the left (here) or the right (the Shotgun). It's encouraging, though, that both Carole James and Gordon Campbell are pitching their messages to moderate British Columbians in the centre, which is where the election will be won or lost.

Norman, it still seems a bit cheesy to brag about and does raise concerns that other factors may have motivated your exposer of Dyer.

Besides exposing nose stretchers isn't your forte or you would have cautioned readers long ago that Can/west has a pro-Liberal provincial government slant.

I also appreciate that you feel the managing editor is the real face of a newspaper. But then as a senior columnist with the background you have, perhaps you do get closer to Patricia Graham than do the fools who spend a buck to buy the ads.

Hey Norm, here's a promotional idea you can pass on to Pat. It'll give her all that respect she hasn't yet got. You can even say it was yours.

Paint a big picture of Patricia's head on all Sun news boxes so that the paid for paper vents through her mouth.

With a few mechanical changes you might even get the door on the box to sound like a roar when it slams shut.

Unfortunately until then, I think the vast majority of people will continue to view the Sun as a Can/west product delivering the same right-wing copy it's sister papers are famous for.

BTW Norman, there is some concern being expressed about the pack of running dogs who appear to show up here on the Tyee when ever you do. Why, I see you've even drawn Mr. Lahey out from under something. And this budlight sounds very much like a couple other flamers who used to drop unpleasantries here.

Are they friends or just opportunists?

Over in the Beers/Campgnolo thread, there's a consensus that the Tyee is politically biased and is upfront about its bias. In the circumstances, I wonder how an academic like Gutstein can lend his name to this site. It's quite worrisome that Gutstein is teaching future journalists; if I were an editor, I'd think long and hard about hiring any of his students, given the flawed article he's written here, which seems to have been made to order for the political agenda of the BC Fed-funded Tyee.

Mr. Spector, it seems a tad ingenuous for you to be suddenly objecting to bias in others, when the beam in your own eye sticks out so far.

Why don't we all just agree that we'll call each others biases "points of view". Then you can have yours, Professor Gutstein can have his, the rest of us can have ours and we can spend our time in conversation, trying to persuade one another, rather than just dismissing the very people we come here to talk to.

I mean, everybody gets to have a point of view. Most of us have more than one, yes?

Come on Norman, you are really skating on thin stuff with that whopper.

Just because David Beers acknowledges the Tyee takes a certain bent, he's biased?

Let's note that at least you get to express that statement in the Tyee.

Try to pass a similar statement off in a letter to the editor at the Sun, Province etc., and see what happens.

Are you suggesting that Can/west papers offer balanced views on issues and in editorials?

I don't think it's strange that Gutstein is writing in the Tyee. Would the Sun print his findings?

I guess I could also ask, why is a national columnist like Norman Spector risking any of the credibility he has left by lending his name to such biased news papers as the Vancouver Sun?

The one great irony, however is that you are offering much deserved credibility to the Tyee by posting here and you do it without compensation, just like the rest of us.

I bet it makes you feel like just one of the proletariat.

Norman: I'd suggest news organizations -- and individuals, for that matter - that push their agenda under the guise of objectivity are more dangerous to public discourse than those that recognize and/or acknowledge their leanings and allow people to take from them or read into them what they will. "Look for the bee in the bonnet," a wise professor once taught me.

Besides, the concept of academics as ideologically neutered ascetics is as ridiculous as thinking news organizations don't have leanings.

By the way, does anyone know if it's ever been publicly confirmed/denied by Beers or independently verified that the Fed is funding the Tyee or is this just gossip? Just curious.

ROFL=rolling on floor laughing. Why doesn't Norman Spector write a column on editor-in-chiefs and what their bias is so that we know what we're reading. He's done a good job branding The Tyee an arm of BCFED, so I'm sure his next column will be all about Patricia Graham and who she owes favours to. I still wonder why we can't make up our own minds on what the bias is by actually reading these publications.

I second that motion Chris H. How about it Mr. Spector? A column about Patricia Graham and the names that sway her editorial dance card.

Why do people care so much about what Spector writes? You know where he's coming from, you know what he is and isn't going to say. What exactly do you expect?

Cub, D. Beers has stated that The Tyee gets some of its funding from the BC Fed. as well as from the various organizations, businesses etc. that run ads here.

But I must say I have seen plenty of critisism
of the Fed in the Tyee and some of it as down right mean spirited as you find in the Sun.

Funny thing though, I have never seen any printed critisism of Sun contributors/advertisers in the Sun. Apparently that's a no-no over there.

I'm sure Gutstein will appreciate Tyee readers' sense that academics, too, are just political hacks. He should be more careful about where his work appears, shoddy as the current article is. The BC Fed has a political agenda; funding the Tyee is an investment. That political agenda explains the publication of this methodologically-flawed article by the Tyee. There's more diversity in any of the mainstream newspapers for which I write than you'll find on this site. The Tyee/BC Fed political agenda also explains why no one has been assigned to report on the rumours about financial skulduggery and personal peccadilloes in the Premier's Office that circulate on this site, and to confirm or dismiss them. Instead, the Tyee stands by as their readers impugn the integrity of mainstream journalists not reporting these "truths," thereby contributing to the deterioration of public discussion in our democracy.

"Perhaps the most obvious political effect of controlled news is the advantage it gives powerful people in getting their issues on the political agenda and defining those issues in ways likely to influence their resolution." -- W. Lance Bennett

Those guilty are unlikely to admit their guilt. What one needs to do is get to the reality beyond the debate. Look understand how our personal and society's future will be negatively affected.

Look to the USA for our future. Things below have moved beyond a lack of political balance, now the media are aiding Wall Street to further corrupt financial markets for short-term financial gain for insiders and long-term harm to our economies and Joe and Jane investors.

Check out the web site of Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee. There are dozens like this on the internet.

Thank god for the internet. Too bad much of the population still feels Canwest distributed 'knowledge' will protect them.
"The dismaying time will be when this all blows up and US stock and real estate prices collapse. Then the fury will be everywhere. "How could this have happened?" the American public will cry out. Too late. Money gone."

Spector's target seems less the sum of Tyee than a constituent part: Gutstein. Thing is, Spector's target is off the mark because the argument still stands: The Vancouver Sun's editorial control then and now is still shit! And Spector contributes to it every other day.

No column about Patricia Graham will be written because she's the one who controls what goes in the paper (and no other editor-in-chief is going to upset another one at a rival paper). The Tyee, for all its left-wing bias, still lets Norman Spector and anyone else write their opinions for all to read. If that isn't diversity I don't know what is. The Vancouver Sun doesn't come close to opening up the debate that The Tyee does. Sure they are different formats, but Mr. Spector is the one choosing to compare apples and oranges. And he is the one to complain about methodological problems? LOL!

Chris H, Which Tyee regular contributor is the equivalent of CanWest's Stephen Hume? Paul Willcocks? Ian Mulgrew? Jody Patterson? Who is the equivalent of the Globe and Mail's Heather Mallick? Rick Salutin? Naomi Klein? Until he announced his candidacy, Adrian Dix was writing a fine column for the T-C. I'm waiting for one of the Tyee's regular contributors to announce he/she is seeking a Liberal nomination. So was Paul Ramsay, until he announced his role in the NDP campaign. I'm waiting for a Tyee contributor to take a leave of absence in similar circumstances on the Liberal side. Yet, the BC Fed funded Tyee has the gall to accuse others of bias. What hypocrisy

Judging by the amount of typing you do here, Norman, you seem to be filling the shoes of the right-wing Cassandra for the Tyee very nicely. Better still, Beers doesn't have to pay you to do it. Now *that's* a smart publisher...

Norman you are 100% correct. All the posters in hear think the thetyee is some high and mighty morally superior independent media source, yet they are financed by big labour. Their articles always have a obvious slant towards the BC Feds position.

The major publications that the posters so often slam in here present both sided of the story far more frequently than the Tyee. You would only have to present both sides once to have done it more frequently than TheTyee though. It’s weird how constant negative reports about the Liberals is fair, tough journalism, yet reporting criticism and praise is blatant favoritism, explain that to me please. The Tyee reminds me a lot of Fox News and their “Fair and Balanced” claims.

Everyone denies the bias but they all know that thetyee is the media arm of the BC Fed. The Tyee is not reporting it’s spreading propaganda.

Norman Spector writes:

There's more diversity in any of the mainstream newspapers for which I write than you'll find on this site.

Thanks for my laugh of the day, Mr. Spector.

Well One thing in clear Jim, Tyee is giving you a site to spread your propaganda.

McClintock's piece on Geoff Plant is very good, but a lot of the regular suspects are offended by it, judging from the rants in that thread. No one has yet been able to name the Tyee equivalent of CanWest's Stephen Hume, Paul Willcocks, Ian Mulgrew and Jody Patterson. Or the equivalents to the Globe and Mail's Heather Mallick and Rick Salutin or Naomi Wolf. Maybe the Tyee is afraid they'd lose their BC Fed funding and WOF advertising if they had hard hitting attacks against Labour and the NDP. Jeez, you'll find more negative stuff on the Liberals in the Sun than you'll find on this site against big labour and the NDP.

Norman Spector writes:
"Jeez, you'll find more negative stuff on the Liberals in the Sun than you'll find on this site against big labour and the NDP".

Stop it! You're killing me with these jokes!

Hey Norman, I'll start writing negative stuff about the NDP when they are in power and damaging my Province. Mabe that is the problem, the Sun has not realized that the Liberals won the last election!

Amazing, then that we see critical stuff about Harper, in particular, but also Jack Layton in the mainstream media. Face it, the Tyee dances to the political agenda of its paymasters.

Amazing, then, that we see lots of critical stuff about Harper, in particular, but also about Jack Layton in the mainstream media. Face it, the Tyee dances to the political agenda of its paymasters.

Will Mcmartin may be the closest thing the Tyee has to Stephen Hume, oh specter of norm, not bad for an under funded online paper (including BC Fed contributions) that's only been around for a year. Hume writes twice a month if we're lucky. Media pimps like pete mcmartin write ad nauseum, and I do mean that literally. And then there's shills like Paul Willcocks, who never saw A BC Liar assault on the innocent he couldn't praise with faint damnation. From there on it gets worse: Don Mayo, who "thinks" the BC liars have fixed the economy, not to mention all the guest spots given the Fraser Institute, with the tiny little bylines at the bottom, and the "voice of the people" letter section, only all the people turn out to rightwing simpletons.

But don't worry, Norm, you've convinced JIm...of course, a lobotomy would no doubt triple JIm's iq, but oh, well...welcome to the prestigious base of support you've created for yourself on the Tyee, congatulations, norm! Oh, and thanks fgor the pimp article on online blogging...it's good to have you on our side, norm, however inadvertently...

Mr Spector has been a paid political provocateur for so many years that it is hard to take his arguments about objectivity and wherein it resides seriously, persistent though he may be.

As for his academic credentials, according to his bio he hasn't lectured in over 25 years. Maybe there is a reason for this.

As for his goverment experience, all I have to know is that he was Chief of Staff serving Brian Mulroney, who led one of the most corrupt and venal governments in our lifetime (even moreso than our current Liberal legacy). To know that Mr Spector was a political appointee of Mulroney's holds a lot of meaning for those of us old enough to remember.

His own strong bias, echoing B.C.'s business class, is consistently and unimaginatively anti-union. Mr Spector could not imagine unions having any positive benefit to society, as his personal filters will not allow it.

So there is really little use in reading Mr Spector's endless typings. He always says the same thing. And he is paid to do it.

Sorry about the last post... HTML

Mr Spector has been a paid political provocateur for so many years that it is hard to take his arguments about objectivity and wherein it resides seriously, persistent though he may be.

As for his academic credentials, according to his bio he hasn't lectured in over 25 years. Maybe there is a reason for this.

As for his goverment experience, all I have to know is that he was Chief of Staff serving Brian Mulroney, who led one of the most corrupt and venal governments in our lifetime (even moreso than our current Liberal legacy). To know that Mr Spector was a political appointee of Mulroney's holds a lot of meaning for those of us old enough to remember.

His own strong bias, echoing B.C.'s business class, is consistently and unimaginatively anti-union. Mr Spector could not imagine unions having any positive benefit to society, as his personal filters will not allow it.

So there is really little use in reading Mr Spector's endless typings. He always says the same thing. And he is paid to do it.

There is an old saying: "He who pays the piper calls the tune". The Aspers and other media barons have their minions on the Pacific Press board and in the press rooms as well. The media sponsored by BC FED and unions are similarly biased. Bias is not bad..but be honest..acknowledge it damn it!Lies are bad!The Vancouver Sun, Province and other CanWest institutions are also biased. They represent diametrically opposite interests in our society to the BCFed, PERIOD! The BC FEd's bias ( and its publications) are for the most part supportive of the unionized working people,and often other working people including the poori.e. the majority. The Canwest bias is towards the interests of the power elite and the priviledged...PERIOD. It is the unofficial organizer and mouthpiece of this corporate power elite that has at this time chosen the BC Liberal Party to represent it ( an alliance of a few fooled real liberals, and the same forces in the Federal Liberals and Federal Conservatives.Let's call a spade a spade and refrain from dishonest sophistry. Norman, has made a profession of promoting the interests of the power elite in various capacities ( Socred Government later reincarnated as the BC Liberals and as a journalist ( a very political and biased career)and were you not appointed by biased right wing politicians as ambassador?? to Isreal or was that someone else. Oh Norman..there have been so many people hurt by this government ..the beggars, the unknown Mathew Vaudriels (sp?) created by this government and dead people who were discharged from hospitals..with the Vaudreil death.. the Sun..its crododile tears so visible to all..launched an EXTENDED political anti NDP government campaign..no such campaigns have been waged by the Canwest group over these most unfortunate preventable deaths...I'm not so sure if anyone has been put on the "desk" .WHY NOT? Why no resignations? This is of course a rhetorical question..anyone with a brain knows why.
Furthermore..a campaign in past was waged against the leader of the BC Liberals..Gordon Wilson ( a a real liberal)..on the surface because of his sexual politics..it lasted many weeks until his resignation and replacement by the corporate-friendly "chosen one". And the Clark sundeck fiasco..and on and on...

Students and youth in this province are constantly told to not drink and drive. The Great Leader ..the "model" commits a very serious indiscretion...his head should role..if it were an NDP head it would have..but why the difference? Proof of the political bias and political role that is played by the corporate media. In terms of Harper, Norm...he serves the corporate right well where he is..he pressures Martin from the right and if the power elite could have him and his extreme US inspired views, ( damn Canadians getting in the way!)they would take him over Martin as PM! I think you know this! When Tyee supporters or Corporate Media supporters cry "bias"..its like the "pot calling the kettle black ". Mr. Gutstein was correct to point out this blatant bias in Pacific Press...what's wrong with the objective truth. I strongly assume Norman has his strong class biases as I do. I think they are diametrically opposed biases. Mr. Spector's postings are rather innocuous on this site but one statement was rather distasteful and disgusting;"It's quite worrisome that Gutstein is teaching future journalists; if I were an editor, I'd think long and hard about hiring any of his students, given the flawed article he's written here, which seems to have been made to order for the political agenda of the BC Fed-funded Tyee." Given Mr. Spector's connections with the media elite this statement could be construed as a veiled threat against Mr. Gutstein's employment..after all...what student's would take his courses knowing that they would be "blacklisted". I hope Mr. Spector never becomes such an editor...judging a potential hire based upon their choice of a particular instructor rather than their own personal attributes and curriculum vitae ! WOW! Explain/clarify yourself Norman. Blacklists...MacCarthy...scary

nicholai, To the Sun's credit, they printed Gutstein's letter today; to his discredit, in the letter he doesn't have the intellectual integrity to stand behind the second paragraph of his article above. Thomas, whatever you think of my writings, I'm balanced off in the Globe by Rick Salutin and Heather Mallick and Naomi Klein; and in CanWest papers by Jody Patterson, Stephen Hume, Ian Mulgrew and Paul Willcocks. Where are their equivalents in the Tyee? Face it, the BC Fed paymaster won't accept strong criticism of the unions and the NDP on this site. To suggest Will McMartin is the equivalent is laughable: he's here to play the role of ex-Socred adviser who's disillusioned with Campbell. As to my service in Ottawa, you might want to have a look at what what recently called the political book of the year by This Magazine: http://www.mqup.mcgill.ca/book.php?bookid=1759

The responses leveled are quite amusing. Since you cannot dispute any argument with fact you once again stoop down to the personal insult level. Face it until the thetyee prints at least a few articles that criticize big labour they are just the media arm of the BC Fed spreading propaganda.

I challenge the writer of this article to do a comparison, like above, between pro and anti liberal articles in the Sun and in the Tyee. But you won't because as usual thetyee is scared of facts and news that they don't agree with.

The bias problem is especially large in thetyee since the BC Fed is such a large contributor in terms of percentage of overall revenue. thetyee.ca cannot possibly have stories criticizing the BC Fed or risk putting themselves out of business. It’s troubling as a reader when a supposedly independent morally superior webmag promotes balanced and accurate reporting, yet practices just the opposite. Kind of like your recent article criticizing the new CanWest show and Fox News, talk about hypocritical.

Norm, My first assumption would be Gutstein's letter to the Sun was edited. However at least some of it was printed. My letters to the Sun only resulted in a Canwest marketer phoning 2 weeks later asking me to subscribe to the Sun or Province (yes every time!).

Are you the real Norm S? You seem to be a believer that our press is corrupt. If I am to believe what you say then you are admitting that your employers are corrupt as well. To me any corruption in Canwest means a lot more to Canada than this little on-line site!

Jim, I challenge you to stand on your head and spin like a top. But you won't because as usual Jim is scared of facts and news that he don't agree with.

What facts? I challenge thetyee to print an article that is critical of the BC Fed. Until then just keep the propaganda machine spewing.

What facts? I challenge thetyee to print an article that is critical of the BC Fed. Until then just keep the propaganda machine spewing.

Maybe when they find something about the Fed to be critical of they will.

Maybe when the personnel of The Sun aren't from the Fraser Institute you'll have a point but until that unlikely day comes you're just making noise.

The sad part is that the Tyee has some excellent people writing for it--Barb McClintock for example. If freed from its BC Fed paymaster, the Tyee could play an important role in BC. The trick is to find a way to raise revenue, which is easier said than done. Until then, it's reader beware--of propaganda, that is--though when you're preaching to the converted and the true believers it simplifies things enourmously.

The Tyee and The Vancouver Sun are two different formats. Gutstein was analyzing the NEWS section of the paper, not their columnists. I hate to break it to you, but no one really cares all that much about what you or Hume write. Your opinion is not worth anymore that anyone elses. It's the way that the Sun will distort the news portion of the paper that is contemptable. Anyways, to suggest that the Vancouver Sun has a balance of editorialists and columnists is laughable. You might as well believe the "fair and balanced" motto of FOXNEWS. I don't believe that The Tyee represents a "balanced" approach in their opinion pieces either. So, where is the hypocrisy? But distort the NEWS to influence people in your way of thinking ... well ... you can't really have too much of that stuff you learned in journalism school left in you.

looks like the jim sinclair had better step up to the plate with more bucks. the latest polls point to a substantial majority for the libs.
carole james will be gone next fall in that case. but of course the polls are all manipulated by right-wing neo-cons who are trying to destroy the province anyway.

Norman, you ask the author and other contributors to back up their arguements with data and research. However you do not. You make ststements that are without any substantive research. (e.g. "If freed from its BC Fed paymaster, the Tyee could play an important role in BC." or "To the Sun's credit, they printed Gutstein's letter today; to his discredit, in the letter he doesn't have the intellectual integrity to stand behind the second paragraph of his article above.") You say it's OK for you to have your biased views in The Globe and Mail because there are other reporters who don't share your point of view. This tells us that you believe you don't have to research to find the facts and truth because someone else will be around to correct and contradict you.

I'm a columnist, not a reporter. My opinion columns are balanced by others with very different views. That diversity does not exist in the Tyee, which dances to the political agenda of the BC Fed.

Hardly, graper. The latest probably biased and inaccurate poll shows out a mere 7 point lead. As wer already know, the BC NDP vote is far more efficent than that of the liars, and is NOT concentrated just in wealthy ridings, all the latest poll really indicates is that the NDP and the bc liars are still at a near statistical dead heat. For the sake of your students, already burdend by your beinga quisling backstabber of a teacher, I can only hope you're not a math teacher as well, which would only double your betrayal of those you are supposed to be standing up for...how do you sleep?

quite well indeed hombre. why not? i've already pointed out to you how much i contribute to my community, which is what life really is all about, but you refuse to answer my question: what have you done for your community lately? or perhaps to you community involvement entails sitting on a computer and criticizing anyone who doesn't agree with your outdated, naive and angry ideology. you need to grow up hombre.

so teachers are supposed to be NDP by definition hombre?

And so humble about your community involvement, griper...you definitely must be a BC Liberal, no one pats themselves more on the back, is more self-congratulatory, than their own deluded selves. You're definitely Fiberal Cabinet material.

sorry to disappoint lynn, but in fact i'm not a member of any political party. however i am a loyal british columbian, born and raised, and i was disgusted by the pathetic and dastardly reign of the ndp in the 90's, when this beautiful province was run by public sector unions, special interest groups, and morons like dave zirnheldt, dennis streifel and elizabeth cull, to name just a few. i've never bragged about my community involvement, simply stated the facts in an earlier post to hombre. my contention is that too many lefties spend too much time whining about what the gov't is supposed to do for them, rather than doing it for themselves and contributing to their community. how about you lynn, would you answer the same question honestly? what have you done for your community lately?

griper, Actually I could make a fairly large list as this government keeps a lot of us very busy as of late, since they have done so little for the people of this province. A lot for corporations, little for people. You confuse whining with the right to question where our tax dollars have gone, when we see so many of our services being continually cut. After all that is what we pay taxes for isn't it? In return for services. We would be foolish to not demand what the government has done with it all, especially since that large tax cut to the rich was at the expense of those who need the services the most.

As for public sector unions, if they were really running the province under the NDP as you say, it is interesting that in the last election most of them voted for the BC Liberals. Think about it, why would they want to give all that power away if they were in control as you say and running the province? The fact is, they weren't running the province and union support of the NDP has always hovered around 10% of their funding. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good rumour.

lynn; i'm not sure i understand. are you busy volunteering in your community or protesting against the gov't? you've actually supported my argument. in the last election the ndp were so pathetic even the unions voted against them. they gave teachers a 1% raise over 10 years, shut down forestry, and drove mining out of the province. if the unionists would look at the condition of the province objectively and stop believing the rhetoric of jim sinclair they'd realize they're in better hands with a gov't that believes in earning money rather than borrowing it. i'm always puzzled about where the left thinks all the money used for social services comes from. the ndp's answer was to tax everything. remember glen clark's heroine maureen maloney and her sinister report on taxation? seniors would have lost their homes if the public hadn't protested so vehemently and glennie hadn't been forced to back off. as for the ndp ideology: glen's working for jimmy, dan miller's working for gordo, and dosanjh and harcourt are working for the federal liberals. those are your last four ndp premiers. go ndp go!