Desire

It seems as though desire is getting really complicated.

Maybe it is time for some women to think outside the box!

If one reads only feminist literature, attend only women studies' classes, it is natural that one will have a warped idea of why things are the way they are! (I am deliberately not mentioning the vast number of programs that are de facto feminist like the Oprah show,...). And, BTW, there is nothing wrong with feminism as long as it includes males in the discussions and maybe the reforms!

While it does not dawn (pardon the pun) on women that they do not have to put up with hair betwen their teeth, we, men, do not like it. And, to be perfectly honest with you women, while there is no garantee that things are going to be perfectly smelling like roses down there, if I am going to be expected to go there, I might as well have the pleasure to see things and see what I am doing! We know men are impotent in many ways. One of the items that women keep complaining about is the inability of men to pleasure them. I know men are not good at asking for direction and they prefer to see the map, it is better than to have no map! Beside, I would prefer see how things are down there, just in case things don't look too safe or right! While it is probably true that hair will curb bacterial growth (and the associated smell), things are not as much fun and safe when one must a flashlight to do things right! Because women want us to do things right? Right? I mean it is way easier for women to please men! At least we don't fake anything! We don't wear fake this or that! I am, of course, assumiung that a dialogue is welcomed and that someone will not construe my comment as offensive! It is not, but then men can say things, only if all women say it is right! Right?

Hmm

I found much of the interesting discussion to be unintelligible. (I think confused people produce confusing statements.) I also find it interesting the way people can make simple things complicated. Actually, They also manage to make complex things unnecessarily complicated. I don't even know what the second comment, above, about desire becoming complicated, means.

Remove hair or don't. It's all good. Like it or not. It's all good. I didn't know so many guys were shaving. I watch a lot of porn. It occurs to me that I can't recall whether I see a lot of bush on guys. I'm not gay, but I'm not bothered by seeing them naked, etc, depending.

Personally, I like trimmed. Or naked. It does depend on the body. It doesn't matter whether we are looking at it from a sexual or other standpoint. I don't know whether sexually active people are more likely to like naked than sexually inactive people. I'd like to know. Don't need to. I'm just curious and this article didn't clue us in on that.

Hey, It's a nice break from war and crime at least!

Entertaining!

re reality_check's comment: Now that was entertaining!

Hi! I'm Barbie. Hi! I'm Ken.

More signs of a juvenile, self-absorbed and totally self-conscious culture where men prefer girl toys over grown women, and women prefer boy toys over grown men.

What a bunch of tamed and prissy pluckin' narcissists decades of commercial culture has created.

Wild thing, you make my heart sing!?

It wouldn't dare.

Not in this effete preening crowd.

Let's see........

Nope, I just don't care.

Henry Dorsett Case

Was it ever anything else?

I really thought those days were over

where statements like "I would prefer see how things are down there, just in case things don't look too safe or right!" were the order of the day. Has it occurred to you that you might bother to first establish a meaningful relationship with 'up here' and then maybe that way get a handle on the degree of trust you can assign? This sounds like a healthier and more inclusive approach to me. Don't you agree?

And Hmmm

I don't see 'naked' people attacking 'natural' people here. Just saying.

well...

Since we're all letting it all hang out...I'm an old dyke...and to those who worry about whether or not "things look too safe or right", it might help if you got to know the woman before you dive in with that flashlight you were joking about. I've never been interested in pre-pubescent girls, not sexually, anyhow. Women, now ... yes, and just in case it interests anybody except myself, I've never met a vulva I didn't like, never met one which didn't look too safe or right, and have never been turned off by scents. Just as a matter of information, guys, the hair stops where the real fun begins. If you're getting hair between your teeth, you're off target.

Took guts to write this article, took guts to publish it. Kudos to the Tyee.

Prisoners of the marketplace and its death camp:

"Turns out times have changed. Now even Brazilians are becoming passé. Showgirls are the way to go. Every follicle of hair removed -- from knuckles to the peach fuzz on a girl's downy cheeks.

Puritanical, disturbing, and truly sad.

fun with hair

Humans have been playing with and altering their appearance for thousands of years.
It's sad if someone feels they are not loveable unless they conform to other people's idea of beauty but if that someone really likes the idea, why not?
One thing I've noticed about hair, it grows back once you stop removing it.
It's easily reversible, unlike scarification, tats, some piercings, etc...not that there's anything wrong with those.
Perhaps it's because I came of age in the '70s that I prefer a natural look but I'm not going to try and tell anyone what they should or shouldn't be attracted to.

i'll think twice.....

...before donating to The Tyee again.

re:I really thought those days were over

Dorothy,

As far as trust is concerned with women, I don't after 1 day, after 5 days, after 3 years! I know! I know! I must go see a shrink and have trust issues! SO, let me ask this question, assuming logic is the word of the day, of course! Should someone see a shrink if he cannot trust, say, Madoff AFTER his scam was uncovered? I know! I know! The comparison is surely outrageous this and outrageous that! But, my experience with many women in town has been lousy! Go ahead: blame me! It is my fault! I should go see a shrink! I know! I know! It must be my fault! Maybe it is a father-son relationship? Maybe I should read Guru Kharma's book? Or watch Oprah more! And, for the record, the low-blow (I guess it fits the story) that somehow I should not have 15 min. relationships with women (make that 5 min. :)) and should develop longer relationships! First, I don't sleep around (but many of you do, but say you don't). Second, it is amazing what you find out when you don't! After 6 months, you can pretty well figure out that a lot of women are fake, fake, fake. Sure! There are a lot of nice, intelligent, honest women out there! Not sure if I want to spend my lifetime to find them, though! Okay! Now, which threrapy are you going to recommend me to take? Which handsome guru are you going to ask me to follow? Fake and flake! And, no empathy, unless of course it is empathy for YOU, listening YOU for ever and ever! Trust me, I don't LOOK like a guru, but it is . .. "nether" here or there, really! I am an idiotic male; an oxymoron, really! :) Am I glad that I ask for ... level-headed engagement ... or not? I know ... you probably hope I never do because I am hopeless! :) Actually, I am leaving ()and that si a good thing, I suppose) to meet my wife in Asia! I was struck by her kindness in response to the kindness I showed her! After living here, I never thought this could happen! :) Now, let's read the pseudo-guru-emotional-bullying response!

@realitycheck

If you're really worried about things being "all right" you should be using a dental dam, not a flashlight or a razor.

Some left wing adherents of THE TYEE...

I didn't realize that so many of THE TYEE's readers were so sick. Now, I don't mind an off colour joke myself, but some of you seem to be taking this article seriously!!!

pubic folliculitis

Google image "pubic folliculitis" - enough said.

Syria? Anyone?

So...Assad in Syria is torturing, mutilating and shelling his own population, children are having their genitals cut off, thousands are marching against their government and the Tyee, 'leftist' and 'progressive' organ that it is, hasn't a single story on it. What do we get? Extensive critiques of 'western democracy', fawning hagiographies of celebrity 'activists', smart meter conspiracies, and exposes on pubic hair. I think your work speaks for itself.

Great article

There is no doubt that what is happening in Syria is a serious and important story. But we can choose to compartmentalize the world into neat boxes or we can find linkages and ask why people behave and act the way the do.

This article, is not as insignificant or superficial as it may seem to some.

It is both bold and revealing.

How we interact as individuals, as human beings and as societies, and the kinds of changes we make in our behavior, our fears, our obsessions, our changing taboos helps us to not only understand ourselves better but to question and critically think about how a certain status quo becomes established - and to question and critically think about the changing norms that become a prerequisite in maintaining it.

This looks like this should be a light comical article, when in fact, it poses some serious questions.

What kind of self-hatred of the human body, of sex and of the life force it personifies, would make people get ready for sex as if they were preparing for surgery?

We are not talking change of hairstyle here, we are talking about a 'desire' to remove every hair from the human body:

"Every follicle of hair removed -- from knuckles to the peach fuzz on a girl's downy cheeks."

Now go right ahead if this is what turns you on.... but the comment section is for opinion, and my opinion is this sounds perverse and that the intention is to infantalize human sexuality. At the very least it makes one think that Hannibal Lecter just got into bed with you and you have been 'suitably prepared' to be eaten with a side order of fava beans, followed by a nice chianti.

To take this to a political level -

How does the perverse become normalized?

How is torture and mutilation (as in Syria) given licence?

If we can look critically at ourselves, and question the kind of human society we are creating, well, there is little doubt, for me at least, that the choices we make in a personal and sociological sense have real political..... ultimately human outcomes, for good or for bad.

Let's talk courtesy

I don't remember a clear time when "leftist" started being a word, let alone an insult. I've been a leftist for as long as I've been able to have opinions, and yes, I even have opinions on pubic hair, not that it matters. Okanagan Orchardist, toquer, please don't wang-wash us. Left or right, it's safe to say our political ideologies have nothing to do with our pubic preference. Left-wingers are intelligent folks, and socialist is not a four-letter word, in spite of years of American fear-mongering.

As to pubic hair, I hate to contradict an old dyke, but to Anne Cameron's point, not all the hair ends where the fun begins, at least not for all of us. The human body is far from regular - a stray hair here or there is by no means uncommon. Neither is it a big deal, but again, let's talk courtesy.
Sometimes, hair is just hair - it's not a feminist issue or a porn-flogged commercialist conspiracy. I shave. It's something I started as a teenager and something my wife appreciates. It's the least I can do for someone who spends time between my legs to keep the area clear and clean.
We all know stubble is itchy, especially around the waste line, so once you've started, it isn't really something you think about stopping. I keep my neck clean-shaven too, but I don't see any articles popping up about that.

It's all a matter of semantics.

Right wing, Centrist, Left wing -- it's all a matter of semantics. There are a great number of intelligent people who write for THE TYEE who are socialistically inclined. There are also a significant number of intelligent comments made by posters who read their articles. You have to admit, though, that this "paper" does not cater to Harper/right wing/conservatives. Thus, this particular article has drawn a number of comments from pseudo-intellectuals, who are basically trying to prove that they are not prudes by suggesting that this topic adds considerable insight into the importance of male/female relations. Most of us enjoy sex whether one choses a member of the opposite sex or not. I don't think it is relevant to my knowledge of the subject that it makes a difference whether my partner shaves her pubic hair or not, or that I should tell you (as some of you have gone to great deal to explain their preferences) if she does or not. I think for some, if not most, of the readers of The Tyee, this article has a significance of 1 out of 10 on the need to know basis.

So...

...that's a good reason to refrain from commenting then. Weighing in to say how much you dislike the subject matter, or how insignificant you think it is amounts to pushing up the signal-to-noise ratio in the comment thread.

Your first comment was enough, but you went on to decry other readers as sick. I suggest that if this subject is really as distasteful as it seems to you, your best course of action would be to go away and allow other readers to discuss this in whatever fashion they want.

You keep coming back....Are you feeling conflicted?

significance?

We do not need to know individual's personal preferences, let's be clear. But I am with Lynn: when something becomes a 'norm', we need to question it. The fact that humans apparently like to herd together certainly needs to be questioned.

For example, there was much discussion over rioting in the streets of Vancouver (and in the UK, etc), and there is no question that part of this behaviour, at least, can be attributed to simply going along with hundreds/thousands of others. It seems relevant to me, then, that we would look at the nature of the trends in our society and ask what they contribute - or not - to our collective well-being.

Clearly it is trivial on an individual level how each person approaches hair removal. Is it not trivial to encourage people to ask questions about their herd behaviour, and it is offensive when anyone believes that others should refrain from commenting...that is simply a form of censorship that seems rooted in a deeply conservative (note the small 'c', please) ideology.

It shouldn't take that long...

"There are a lot of nice, intelligent, honest women out there! Not sure if I want to spend my lifetime to find them, though!"

Your LIFETIME?! Are you sure you are looking in the right places? I got a couple of ideas:
1) Ask you mother; 2) Ask your father; 3) I've seen some nice and far from dumb girls at the farmer's market, which I would try to get my own boys interested in, if I thought they were interestable. But they're all about 'doing their own thing without my interference'. Now the advice is yours, all for free. You look for girls that are DOING something, not just looking pretty!