Life

An HIV-Positive Mother's Day

She had been an addict, and carried the AIDS virus. But she yearned for a child, and people were there to help make it possible.

By Amy Chow, 7 May 2010, TheTyee.ca

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'I have a beautiful son. I never thought I would.'

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[Editor's note: Names have been changed to protect their identities.]

In the kitchen of Anne Fraser, clean baby bottles are neatly stacked upside down. Her living room is filled with toys. It's a world likely familiar to any young mother who spends time at home with a toddler, as does Anne. A world even a bit humdrum, to some. But not to Anne, a petite blonde woman who once had every reason to fear she would never have a baby to care for.

Seven years ago, Fraser tested positive for HIV and Hepatitis C. "I thought it was a death sentence and I thought I was going to die," she recalls. At the time, she was a cocaine and heroin addict living on the streets of the Downtown Eastside of Vancouver. Overwhelmed and shocked by the diagnosis, she stepped on the gas pedal heading into oblivion. "I was overdosing on a daily basis."

Fraser wasn't sure how or when she got infected with HIV. "I wasn't careful with my needle use, I wasn't careful about people I was sleeping with, I wasn't careful about anything," she says. Fraser believes she could have contracted HIV anytime between 2000 and 2002. Days, months and years are a blur on the streets.

During her first year on the streets she had a baby girl and put her up for adoption. "At that stage in my life, I wasn't ready to have a baby. But I had always hoped that I would be able to have another one. I knew how much I had loved my daughter." Struggling with a cocaine addiction and an abusive relationship after her giving up her daughter for adoption, she also developed an expensive heroin addiction that on some days cost her over a thousand dollars. The pain and hurt that she caused her daughter still haunts her today.

Fraser was acutely aware that she was taking the same path as her mother. Her mother, Dawn, had abandoned her and her two younger sisters to live in the DTES, after her father died of a heroin overdose, when she was 12 years old. Dawn is also HIV-positive. After being brutally beaten with a claw hammer and left to die in a dumpster, Dawn left the DTES seeking treatment in the hopes that Anne wouldn't follow the same path. Yet as her mother cleaned up, Anne left for the streets when she was 18, "I had so much going on, I just let go."

Rough road to clarity

Fraser's life began to change in June 2005, when she was convicted of assault with a weapon. In a DTES alley, two intoxicated people attacked her with a chain over drugs. Fraser fought back and hit them with a chain. It was the first time she received a substantial jail term -- six months at Alouette Correctional Centre for Women (ACCW). Prior to that Fraser only had brief jail terms for minor trafficking offences.

At 5-foot-4 she entered the prison looking deathly-ill at 78 pounds. But she quickly gained 90 pounds while she detoxed and had regular meals in prison. Dr. Ruth Martin, Alouette's family physician educated her about HIV and Hepatitis C and they discussed medications. Martin also encouraged her to inform her family to her whereabouts.

Fraser explains while in prison she had time to get some clarity and rebuild family bonds. "I knew if I continued to do what I was doing down there, I was going to die," Fraser says, "I wanted to do something different." She didn't want the lonely and isolated life that she had in the DTES anymore. For six years, Fraser had never gone to shelters, even on cold winter nights. Doing drugs had been more important. She would stay awake for days until she collapsed outside Insite or in a random doorway and repeat the cycle.

Upon Fraser's release, her mother offered her support and a home. Fraser continued to educate herself about HIV through the Internet, books and the Positive Women's Network (PWN). The PWN's retreats were a great opportunity to network with other women, she says. She learned about Oak Tree Clinic, a women and family clinic which specializes in treating HIV-positive women.

This led her to ask her infectious-disease physician if she could have a baby in the future, when she cleaned up. The positive response gave her hope. In the past, Fraser had attended several treatments centers, but she didn't have the desire to stop using. Now, Fraser was ready and knew what she had to do. This past Halloween, she celebrated four years of being clean.

Fraser met her current partner, Brian Simpson, when she started attending weekly Narcotics Anonymous meetings. When she informed him about her HIV status, he didn't respond negatively, or end their relationship. Simpson responded pragmatically. He wanted to know what they would have to do to have children. He wanted children as badly as she did.

Helping women with HIV plan pregnancies

In 2006, Fraser told her doctor she was ready to do what was necessary to have a baby. She tackled her Hepatatis C by doing the pegatron treatment for seven months and she stablized on medication that was pregnancy safe. "I didn't want to take a chance," she says. "I didn't know when I was going to get pregnant, but knew I wanted to."

It's more and more common to see women with HIV plan their pregnancies, says Dr. Deborah Money, executive director of Women’s Health Research Institute and an obstetrician/gynecologist who heads up the prenatal program at Oak Tree Clinic. Money says approximately two-third of HIV-positive women she treats have come in for either pre-pregnancy counseling or in some way their pregnancies. "There's not the same number of surprise pregnancies or new HIV-diagnoses in pregnancy that we were getting 10 years ago," she says.

Since 1996, the treatment of highly active antiretroviral therapies has led to a huge reduction in AIDS-related deaths. As a result, a growing number of HIV-positive women are opting to have children. A survey by Dr. Gina Olgilvie, associate director of the division of STI-HIV prevention for the BC Centre of Disease Control, found that 30 per cent of young HIV-positive women in British Columbia hoped to become pregnant in the future. Oak Tree Clinic began in 1994 out of recognition that more women and children were being infected by the disease, Money says. People can no longer assume that women with HIV don't want children.

Yet while most people are aware that people with HIV are living longer due to antiretroviral therapy, they remain ignorant surrounding the issues of HIV and reproduction. "People thought in the days before HIV meds that all HIV babies got infected. In the worst days it was only 25 per cent to 30 per cent of babies that became infected. And in this day and age, I think people still don't realize that, with good medical care, we can almost completely prevent transmission," Money explains.

Fraser definitely agrees with Money that people have misconceptions about HIV and pregnancy. "If they see someone who is HIV positive and pregnant, they assume they are going to have a HIV positive baby and that's so not true," she says. People mistakenly assume that her son and partner are HIV positive. They also think that a child from a mother with HIV will have problems later on in life, she says.

Fraser believes it's important to be educated first before planning a HIV pregnancy. Prospective parents face countless issues: transmission, the impact of pregnancy on their health, possible long-term effects of babies exposed to HIV medications and how their illness may affect the child.

If a woman is HIV positive and her partner is not, they can get pregnant at home without assistance. Doctors still don't advocate unprotected sex. Martin advises her patients to map out their menstrual cycle to determine when she's ovulating and most fertile. During ovulation, the male partner should try a number of times to produce a semen sample and immediately use a syringe and insert it into the women's vagina -- the so-called "turkey baster" method. Martin realizes that people take their own risks and may get pregnant through unprotected sex. The risk is lower if the HIV infected person is taking medications and his, or her viral load is reduced below detectable levels, she says.

Telling family can pose emotional risks

Before trying to get pregnant, Anne and Brian had tons of questions for their nurse. They had hour-long discussions about what was safe. Fraser says it’s important that her partner doesn't live in fear. While Simpson believes that if he ended up getting HIV, it's meant to be, Fraser doesn't agree. She doesn't want him, or any future child to go through what she's had to go through -- the medications and constant struggles with infections.

At first, they tried the turkey baster method, but when their attempts failed they talked to the doctor. They learned that the risk of transmission to Simpson was low because Fraser's viral load was undetectable. On their first try, Fraser got pregnant through unprotected sex. When Fraser learned that she was pregnant at the doctor's office, she wanted to share the good news. After telling her partner, she told her uncle, who she regards as her surrogate father. Her uncle told her she was being selfish for risking her baby's health due to her HIV-positive status. She was extremely hurt by his response.

Money says social workers and nurses at the clinic work with their patients about whether or not they should inform their family members and friends about their HIV status. There's no legal obligation to reveal their positive status, except to their sexual partners. "In some cases, it's much safer and better not to tell anyone," Money says, "in other cases, disclosure to extended family and friends is very supportive." Fraser, who wanted her family informed about her HIV-status, was able to change her uncle's opinion, by taking him to talk to the nurses at Oak Tree Clinic. He's now thrilled to see her son, Austin take his first steps and now supports Fraser's decision to have a baby.

Fraser did not breast-feed Austin, due to risk of transmission. A child born to an HIV postive mother will be tested several times: at birth, after 6 weeks when the AZT treatment is finished, and at 18 months. Latest tests show Austin is HIV-negative, Fraser says.

'Women in2 healing'

After Fraser's release, she reconnected with old friends from prison through Facebook and founded a group called "Women in2 healing." Later, Martin formed a community-participatory research to develop a long-term health strategy to help women after their incarceration with the group of former incarcerated women, academics and volunteers. For the last two years, Fraser has worked as a research assistant with "Women in2 healing" at UBC. Fraser's current project explores available health resources for Aboriginal women in Mission, following their release from prison and possible barriers to their access.

Fraser also makes countless presentations around B.C. on drugs and alcohol. She also leads a support group for teens. As a teenager who did drugs, she easily relates to them and vice versa. "I do whatever I can to try to help my community and if me telling my story helps anyone, I've done my job." She believes teenagers have to be made aware that their split decision to have sex, or use drugs can have life-long consequences.

She has also attended forums to support the reinstatement of the mother-baby program at ACCW, which allowed incarcerated women to keep their newborns in prison. She firmly believes that the program, which was cancelled quietly by the Harper government in the spring of 2009, inspired her to change her life.

Fraser smiles and says her life has completely changed in the last four years. "I have friends today, whereas before I didn't have any," she says, "and my family is really supportive -- that's the key to being able to stay clean." She recognizes that she lived in hell and now she has a great appreciation for the life she's been given. "I wouldn't change it for anything. I have a beautiful son which I never thought I would have. I lived my life everyday thinking I was going to die, not caring if I lived or die. But today I don't have to live like that," she says.

And then she adds a bit of news. She is expecting her second baby in August. [Tyee]

Amy Chow is a Vancouver writer. Read her previous Tyee stories here.

29 Comments:

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  • barney

    2 years ago

    I agree with her uncle

    Not only selfish, but irresponsible for someone with this kind of health status and background to be embarking on what is certain to be a high risk act of having a child. And irresponsible for a medical establishment and social service providers to be cheering her along.

    At some point a woman has to step back from her maternal urges and make a hard, responsible decision to just say no, after weighing out the cold, hard data and realities at play.

    Obvious health issues aside (risk of baby contracting HIV, HEP-C, and god knows what else), there is the mental fitness side of the equation. The stats clearly show that the road from full blown drug addiction to in-the-clear sobriety is a long, hard road with a statistical likelihood of repeated relapse, and less than a majority of addicts fully succeed. The fact her significant-other is also a recovering junkie does not help the baby's chances of a healthy, happy, clean future.

    I'm not suggesting anything draconian like forced sterilization of addicts and crazies. I am, however, very troubled that this story has a bizarre tinge of feel-good silver lining to it, and seems to endorse procreation among people with irresponsible predispositions and severe self-inflicted health problems. It's hard enough bringing a baby into this world if clean, sober, mentally healthy and gainfully employed. To treat the subject of this above story like some sort of poster child for HIV addicts having kids - just shaking my head over this one.

    And she's expecting a second baby? Why is this being celebrated by a 'journalist'? This is less a TLC Baby Story, and much more a cautionary tale.

  • Ramona777

    2 years ago

    I Agree With Barney

    This is one reason why our health care costs are skyrocketing.
    People have to learn to accept that their every desire can't be funded by the public purse.
    Perhaps we should consider having children as a privilege, not a right. Raising a child is an exceedingly difficult process that can in effect take decades.

  • livinglife

    2 years ago

    To be quite honest, I am not

    To be quite honest, I am not surprised by the responses this article has gotten. It is this kind of stigma that makes women think that it is not their "right" to have children. As the person that this article is about. I am very proud to be the woman I am today and have no quams about celebrating mothers day happily and proudly! Some people make mistakes in their life. I am one of them, fortunatly for me I was able to access the resources I did. And today I have a beautiful family that is healthy and happy. I hope that your ignorant comments do not detour other women who have this virus to think that this is a death sentence or that it isnt their "right" to have children. The public needs to become educated about the actual transmission rates. If a women is on antiretoviral treatment then there is a 0.0001 chance that the baby would ever be infected with proper medical care. And that is reduced even further, with the dosage that a women gets in labour. I have given birth to a healthy baby boy NATURALLY!who is rambunctious very smart and is absouloutly advanced in every aspect OF LIFE... you know why... because I AM AN AWESOME MOTHER! And I love him! and my next one aswell:) Have a great day, you didnt ruin mine.

  • PWN

    2 years ago

    Discrimination Against HIV+ Women Unacceptable

    Women with HIV can have healthy pregnancies and healthy, uninfected babies, as reporter Chow noted through her interviews with doctors Martin and Money. Sadly, discriminatory responses can be the case for women living with HIV.

    There are health conditions that require detailed care and management during pregnancy- diabetes and epilepsy are two that spring to mind in addition to HIV. Should we suggest that women with diabetes or epilepsy not have children? No- we provide them the support they need so that their pregnancies will have the best outcome possible. Suggesting that women with HIV shouldn’t have children only serves to perpetuate the stigma of HIV and undermine women and their families.

    For more information on support for women with HIV in BC, visit Positive Women’s Network: www.pwn.bc.ca.

  • Rosaleeta

    2 years ago

    can accept the one but debate the bigger issues

    Parenting and the right to parent is a topic that instantly brings the emotion out in people. But I think that we can accept the singular case presented in this article while continuing to question what society will allow, pay for and then continue to support when it comes to medical and social intervention.

    And I don't think it should only apply to people who have had risky lifestyles.

    I fear that when we shut down the debate on what skills, services and abilities a parent should have in our society, we don't take stock of what we need to provide as a community to each other to be good parents. And so people - regardless of their health, social status, etc - don't always make good or realistic decisions.

    I think this article should laud this mum for all she has overcome, but I also think it should outline the difficulties that will be, could be or might be faced by this family. Just as I would expect an article on a suburban mom to cover the same. I wouldn't expect a story on a lack of daycare to only be about how one mom found a 'way around the system' - I would expect the article to also outline the difficulties others have.

    That's a realistic picture of what our community is, what we want to be or can afford to be, is mettled out in debates like this. To shut it down is to short change everyone involved.

  • ifsandsnbutts

    2 years ago

    Complicated!

    As much as I can understand Ms. Fraser's desire for a child, and am truly happy to hear of her sobriety...I don't believe having a child when a woman knows she is Hep-C and HIV positive is wise.

    With the medical system in BC crumbling daily, it's very difficult to know what our medical costs will be 6 months from now, never mind a couple of years from now...can both parents afford the medications that may well be needed in their not-so-near future?

  • normalguy

    2 years ago

    Only Time Can Tell

    As a father to be, I clearly understand Anne's desire to be a mother and it is her right to do so even though many may not agree. Although the article is about a mother's emergence from the DTES I would like to not focus my comment on this. Yes, she probably had a troubling childhood with a mother that lived in the DTES...yes, she has probably suffer tremendously during her days in the DTES and yes she has HIV. As traumatic as this may sound I can assure you that in other parts of the world other young women and mothers are suffering much more. The main differences is that there are resources available in Vancouver/Canada that enable individuals like Anne to turn their life around. For Anne is was merely just a choice to either accept the help or not. Unfortunately, others in less privileged countries that choice is not available. If you make an incorrect choice in life you are likely do die or suffer for the rest of your life for that mistake. For some, they are born into a life of miserly with no chance for a better life.

    What I am trying to say is that Anne is a beneficiary of the system and she has all the rights to accept the benefits. However, I am hopeful that she is grateful for her second chance and not take it for granted for there are many that don't have this opportunity. I hope that you will live your life with generosity, happiness and be a positive contributor to our community....Pay-It Forward!

    Best of luck.

  • barney

    2 years ago

    PWN

    With due respect, to you, PWN, and to author Chow, criticism and debate of this mother's decision does not equal discrimination. I and others raise very real, very legitimate questions that went unanswered in the article. One of my problems with the article is the warped vantage and lack of balanced reporting. Not a single critic of an HIV+ drug addict women having babies to be had? Surely, Chow could dig up some child welfare or HIV / disease expert who fails to see the beauty and positive love in all of this.

    Furthermore, what Chow fails to do is probe the subject of the article to truly learn if she comprehends the risks she has taken on as an addict (with an addict significant other) with HIV/Hep-C, choosing to have kids. To imply general truths from this incomplete case study is irresponsible journalism, in my opinion.

    This is less about Fraser's rights, and everything about the responsibilities attached to those rights. I'm getting really tired of the Entitlement Generation demanding their every right without acknowledging duty and responsibility. I do not deny any woman the right to control her body and womb. However, I do think that Fraser's rights do not absolve her from responsibility, or society's questions and scrutiny about those responsibilities.

    As for your fallacious analogy, Fraser is not a woman with diabetes or epilepsy. She is a (former) junkie by choice, and an assault convict with likely mental health issues, with disease issues resulting from that lifestyle. She has demonstrated poor judgment in the past. Where's the proof that has changed? Where's the proof she is fit to judge her own ability to bring potentially diseased life into the world? Why does Chow not raise these and other critical questions? Why does Chow not cite data on recidivism rates of addicts, or more data on the risks associated with HIV-moms giving birth.

    It is not discrimination to call Fraser's judgment into question.

    Another way Chow might have tempered her endorsement of this mother is by profiling a second HIV junkie woman who made the difficult decision to defy her maternal urges and not have children for obvious reasons. I would find this a much more heroic tale.

    To the mother who had the courage to enter this discussion, I sincerely wish you the best future. This is not a personal attack on you. You just happen to be the subject of a piece of journalism that is very open for debate.

  • sheilanyk

    2 years ago

    inspired

    This is an inspirational story about a woman who successfully turned her life around against all odds. Her story should be publicized, not as proof of irresponsibility as previous comments might suggest, but as proof that the resources in place to help disadvantaged people are working. I would much sooner question the ability of countless other individuals for parenthood, than I would Fraser, who obviously really wants children - a necessary quality that I feel many lack when it comes to raising children. I am sure she will prove far more responsible than many other so-called "parents" in society today. Kudos to Fraser for actualizing her dream - a greater feat than the majority of people will ever claim in their lifetime.

  • sunshine coast girl

    2 years ago

    Funny how it's usually men....

    not all men, by any means, but the most ignorant comments seem to come out of the mouths of men who really have no idea what they're talking about. That's real generous of you Barney, to not deny this woman the right to control her body and womb. Someone die and make you Supreme Being?

    You've never demonstrated poor judgement at any time in your life? You must be the only one in the world. Have you grown up in a household where you were abandoned when you were 12? Doubtful. I'm sure you grew up in a nice, safe, middle-class home (where your Mom probably was a stay-at-home Mom). Who are you to judge whether this woman has the right to be a Mother or not? Have you ever fought back, kicking and screaming, from the very bottom? Sounds to me like she's earned it.

    It's none of your goddamn business if she wants to be a mother, whether you approve or not. It's between Anne, Brian and their doctor. You did read the part about the Oak Tree Clinic, a women and FAMILY clinic which specializes in treating HIV-positive women? So, they probably have a much more accurate picture of the risks than you ever will.

    Jeez, it bugs me when men say they don't presume to tell a woman what to do with her body and womb and then proceed to do exactly that.

  • Okanagan Orchardist

    2 years ago

    Responsibility

    I agree with both of Barney's comments.
    In this day and age when medical costs have reached an extreme high, it is dubious whether the mother in question will ever be able to repay the bill she has foisted on the rest of us. In my mind there is no question about a lack of responsibility on her part. We all seem to think that we should be forgiven our errors, but perhaps only God can do that. Meanwhile the money earners have to make sacrifices to allow people without the monetary wherewithal to live the kinds of lives that put us further behind. Had this women changed her lifestyle and proved her willingness to settle into a society that demands integration into making your own way without having to rely on others, and done this for a number of years we might be able to accept her decision to bare children. On the contrary, she has one child which she gives up, and then has another two at the risk of complications and continued reliance on the welfare of others.
    I prefer to see my tax dollars going to those people who appreciate what hard work means, not to those who take advantage of a system. Try this in Mexico, where, if you don't work, you don't get.

  • barney

    2 years ago

    Sunshine Girl

    No need to be flip about my statement that I endorse a woman's right to autonomy. That's important for me to state to ensure I'm not perceived as carrying some veiled agenda to deny women that right.

    And spare me the line about "it's always men who..." That's not an argument. That's ignorance. And it's one of the reasons these debates usually get repressed and shut down in the name of feminism.

    Do you want to debate this in a serious tone, or go on calling me a big bad misogynist monster? I think there are serious social and ethical questions at play in this issue. If you do not. End of debate.

    Moreover, don't presume you know everything about my class status, my background or anyything else about me, because you don't. And even if you did, that's irrelevant. If you want to challenge my arguments, do so with intelligence and devoid of ad hominem, and maybe we can continue.

    You asked me:

    "You've never demonstrated poor judgement at any time in your life?"

    Don't be ridiculous. To err is to be human. But we are not taking about jaywalking here, or a lost weekend in Vegas. The categories of human error are very relevant to this debate.

    And yes, the choices people make are very much my business insofar as I am part of society bonded by a social contract we all share for better or worse; and I help fund the taxpayer funded services offered to people who make bad or risky life choices. And I am quite happy to go on funding those things. What I am not happy about is the apparent lack of responsibility in the exercising of rights, and journalism that presents a partial case study to draw the general conclusion that there are no ethical problems or issues of rights-responsibilities at play here.

  • sunshine coast girl

    2 years ago

    I repeat...

    She has corrected her error and it's none of your damn business if she has children or not.

  • Ramona777

    2 years ago

    Barney, You're Dealing With Flintstones' Mentality

    Ad hominem attacks come out when people like Barney hit close to the bone.
    Yes, she has "corrected her error" but for how long? I don't like to talk about the story subject like a commodity, but yes, she has come a long and kudos for turning her life around.
    But speaking from painful experience, I know how tenuous life it.
    Sunshine Coast Girl, if it's none of our damn business, why is there a story about it?
    Bottom line: our health care system can't keep up unless all of the users start paying MORE.
    HIV drugs are damn expensive.
    High-risk pregnancies and all of the attendant care are costly.
    Feeling that we're entitled to everything out there is why we're in the jam we're in. As previous, wise posters stated, this wouldn't be up for discussion in a Third World country.
    You choose to become an addict.
    You choose to give birth.
    What is the difference in those choices?

  • barney

    2 years ago

    Thanks Ramona

    I think it's an important issue that requires social comment and debate, for all sorts of ethical, health, public policy, cultural reasons.

    SCG, clearly you are not interested in dialogue. It's not as easy as declaring a human corrected her error, therefore case resolved, none of our business. Addiction, mental health issues and HIV are usually lifelong, expensive struggles with several bumps in the road; in this case innocent children are again hanging in the balance.

    I have people in my family who have worked the front lines of social work child protection/apprehension in BC, who cringe at hearing stories like Fraser's, because they see the eventual casualties every day on the job; it's they who have to go in and clean up the tragedies resulting from irresponsible choices and high risk parenthood. Therefore, yes, it is all of our damn business, and I'm sure BC's child & youth advocate, Mary Ellen Turpel-Lafond, would agree it's all of our damn business. Indeed, it would have been smart journalism for Chow to seek out such an opinion, or the opinion of front line child protection workers, before lauding Fraser as a poster woman for HIV+-junkie-con child bearing.

    Ramona's response to SCG's "damn business" argument is bang on: if it's none of our business, "why is there a story about it in the media?" Precisely. What do the author and subject of this story expect? That readers throw rose petals at her feet, send a mother's day card and say job well done? No, that's not going to happen. This is a controversial issue that impacts mother, children, father, health and social service providers and society (us). The statistical realities regarding drug addicts are that the risks to children's future are higher than for children of non-addict/HIV parents. I see nothing in Chow's article to indicate this was fleshed out in assessing Fraser's mental fitness or awareness of the risks. I think part of the problem is we have this reverential attitude toward motherhood that makes questioning the right to bear kids almost taboo. Well, I am challenging that taboo. While I believe all women have autonomy over their wombs, I don't believe that means it's always responsible to exercise that autonomy.

    We live in a society that increasingly loves rights, yet ignores the duties and responsibilities that come with those rights. Go ahead, exercise your rights, but don't expect people to give you a free pass on the responsibility side of the equation.

    Fraser is not a straight woman with mere medical complications. This is an ex-junkie with HIV, with an ex-junkie husband, who is taking higher risks than most in exercising her right to bear children. She can't expect everyone to endorse her choices as responsible. Do I hope she succeeds? Damn right I do, because lives are at stake, and if she doesn't succeed, I as taxpayer will be paying the costs. But more importantly, Fraser's failure would see the innocent victims, ie, children, paying the heaviest cost.

  • Ordinary Canadian

    2 years ago

    Money for the poor.....

    Funny how the argument deteriorates to issues of money especially when it's perceived as public money for the down and out. How about the billions we are all paying for in bank bailouts, oil cleanups,toxic mining,real estate frauds etc., Do we believe in the hopes of a better society and second chances or do we want a society where wealth determines privilege? Those who argue that the public purse should not fund this woman would have no argument if she were wealthy and paying her own way.It's time to recognize where most of our hard earned dollars go and believe me if it was to the poor they wouldn't be poor.

  • barney

    2 years ago

    Not about money

    Ordinary Canadian, I don't speak for others who have commented, only to say that for me, this issue is hardly about money or taxation. It's about rights without adequate accounting of responsibilities, about human life and the quality of life we provide our kids in deciding to bring them into the world. I have, and never will, argue that social services for women, the poor, the addicted or maternal services be cut. In fact, I would argue they need to be increased by shifting taxes from corporations to these kinds of services.

    If Fraser were wealthy, we'd never hear her story, and she'd be getting the finest private care and services money could buy. However, my opinion would not change. Wealthy or poor, to choose to have children after a checkered past of drug addiction, life on the streets, jail time, mental health issues and HIV/Hep-C infection via that chosen lifestyle is a choice open to public debate and scrutiny because of the risks those choices carry for the children and for society. I think a journalist celebrating this suspect choice without proper scrutiny is irresponsible journalism.

    Anyway, I've made my case, and speaking of mothers....

  • VivianLea Doubt

    2 years ago

    not about the money?

    I can agree with previous commenters in so far as I think that the public debate about parents and parenting is important and ought not to be shut down. If it is not about the taxpayer's burden, why bring it up? As another commenter remarked, there are countless others out there with 'high risk' lifestyles that are helped to have healthy children, why the vitriol over this one?

    A recent study I encountered showed that the serious injury rate for those involved in crashes in SUVs was much higher than in smaller vehicles...one could conclude that surburban-SUV-driving middle class moms might be subjecting their children to high risk lifestyles. The same could potentially be said of those parents who drink, smoke, or eat junk food... or who have any number of chronic diseases.Logically, one could go on ad infinitum to show the very real risks involved in having healthy, happy children for any number of categories of parents.
    In my opinion, the first requisite for having children is, as already pointed out, wanting them, and taking responsibility for making a decision with the help of physicians and others. Thie mother is clearly so very much ahead of many others who simply become pregnant.
    The discussion should be about how we as a society can help and support parents, and nuture children, not about who 'ought' to have children. It seems self-evident that a society that truly valued children would not allow so many of them to live in poverty,and that parenting in such a society would not be undertaken lightly by anyone.
    Thanks for the article.

  • Ramona777

    2 years ago

    Sorry, But "Wanting Them" Isn't a Good Enough Reason

    Isn't that symptomatic of our society?
    "I WANT that and I should be able to have it."
    People want pets but find out later that they're too much work and sometimes expense.
    It's not too far an analogy with children.
    I've known several people who BEFORE the diapers, the puke, the screaming, the cost, the arguments with a spouse, the stress, wanted those children but inevitably there was divorce and ... more kids without the guidance, comfort, love and financial support of two parents.
    When will people understand that not every person in this world should have a child.
    Ever stop to think why there are FAS babies, drug-addicted babies, babies who die after birth?

  • zalm

    2 years ago

    Barney

    The only area I think you're off base, is in the potential risk to the child. I see no greater risk to this child in this family than in any other family in BC. Troubled childhoods, and the troubled adulthoods that sometimes arise out of them can and do occur in any family in BC. The statistics on children becoming adults who do not become productive members of society do not correlate well with childhood psychosocial factors - they are not to be ignored, but they are not a death sentence either.

    And I would further suggest that as a society, we could productively use the potential of every child this society can produce as our birth rate declines below replacement. This child's outlook, and therefore contribution to society, may also be more broadminded and useful than that of a child that grew up in Leave-it-to-Beaver-familyland where nothing ever went wrong and morality was the cure to all troubles.

    All that aside, your arguments are cogent in pointing out that a whole other side was missing in this article, which left a similar bad taste in my mouth, and I certainly hope journalist Chow follows up with another one.

  • dj

    2 years ago

    birthing more important than motherhood

    who should prioritize how money is spent on people with HIV/AIDS. With both the nursing professions and the AIDS Service professions controlled and dominated by women - both resource and treatment decisions are concerned with womens' rights (see recent world AIDS day "year of the _____ " (woman, or child in recent years). So it's not just BC, but we're clearly the most easy to spot agendas. When the public debate the use of resources, the Positive Womens' Network crows about "discrimination against women", when the larger issues of discrimination against those with HIV matters little, it seems. Most cases of HIV in BC are men - gay men, then aboriginal men - but there's no HIV money for a Positive Mens' Network. Never has there been an AIDS Year of the Gay Man. And what of an HIV man's "right" to bear children - how's that movement doing? This is about heterosexism - and using "womens' rights" to maintain a hetero-centric control of parental spending, social values. As long as PWN are darlings of the womens' movement, they will be funded - despite the (fortunately few) women with HIV in BC. When did the CDC do study of providing HIV men with access to parenting resources - or hospital stigma to men with HIV? What improves lives of people with HIV, anyway? $ for housing and education, firstly - they are called determinants of health - and they work. People who want to be parents could be satisfied with adoption - with all the unwanted children in our overpopulated world rather than the control issues of child-bearing and heterosexism. Some of us men with HIV and without have had to make the hard choices to keep our sperm in a responsible place.

  • livinglife

    2 years ago

    I will have you know

    I will have you know BARNEY,I suffer from NO mental health disorders. I love my children and yes have made mistakes in the past, Ill also have you know , I have a JOB! and I PAY my TAXES just like any of you! And I am glad that there are programs and resources such as the OAKTREE clinic and PWN out there for women and families such as myself. Without them I would probobly be a sour old man like you Barney.
    It is the stigma and UNEDUCATION of people such as yourself, that creates fear that is un needed in society. We made this decision of sound mind. And when WE did WE researched the risks and benefits. If there was a risk of my child contracting the virus then trust me WE would never have done it.And I do not have HEPC I was cured of that over 4 years ago, . And MY fiance and myself are not Junkies! We have been doing very well clean and sober for over 4 1/2 years. And I dont even remember if my virus load was published but it is undetectable and has been for 4 years. IF you want to comment on this disease then I would expect that you would become educated , do a little research.I agree some of the statistics of mother child transmission would have been helpful in this article , I hope that ms chow in the future will do an article on them.
    Anyways my beautiful HEALTHY son is needing me right now. So YOU have a great day!

  • livinglife

    2 years ago

    uneducated barney

    This is Annes partner Brian. Let me clear some things up first off where in this article does it say that I ever did heroin? Therfore why are you calling me a junkie. "Junk" is slang for heroin, hence the term junkie.

    I also own my own business and employ people from the community, oh ya I also PAY taxes. Quite alot of them.
    Ive been on the system for a total of four months while I was in treatment. Barney you bring up the point of what these drugs cost the taxpayers. What would happen if you got cancer? How much are cancer drugs? Im quite sure that my tax dollars are going to go towards paying for your cancer drugs. I pay medical the same as you. In fact since im self employed and in one of the higher tax brackets I most likly pay more that you for my medical coverage.For you to assume that Im in some way a burden to the taxpayer is ignorant.

    As for my partner and I being irresponsible in our decision to have children thats ludicrus. We gave this more thought than most people do. Who the hell are you to say that my children are going to be a burden on society or to say that they are going to cost tax payers any more than any other child out there. How dare you even try to say that my childrens quality of life is going to be any different than the average child out there. Its actually quite the opposite, my children are very well taken care of financially,emotionally and most of all with our love.
    Unlike many of todays pregnancies ours was planned out and wanted. So we have a great deal of appreciation for the children we have been blessed with.

    If I had to guess i would say that you are most likely between the ages of 55-65. Unfortunally most people in that age group tend to be uneducated when it come to HIV-AIDS only remembering the early days of the disease. Or it could be that your just an idiot, the jurys kinda out on that one. Anyways ive wasted enuff thought on you.

  • TYRONE

    2 years ago

    HIV/AIDS are a myth and an invention by its "discoverers"

    A book has been written about HIV and AIDS, which debunks the whole thing!
    HIV has nothing what-so-ever to do with any virus. In fact, to this day there has never been a virus seen, photographed and/or biochemically categorized. In other words - there is no proof anywhere in the world that there is such a thing as a virus and the stories told are pure fiction of the corrupt medical establishment. -
    AIDS is a 'white coat' version of voodoo and all the people on this planet have been dealt a cruel hoax. -
    People do not die of AIDS. It is interesting to note, that no one "develops" AIDS, who does not believe they are HIV positive. The 'discoverers' of this HIV are now admitting, that they have never seen a virus and the test they devised is a smegma alergy test, which has nothing what-so-ever to do with any so called illness. Inform yourselves while you are healthy. http://learninggnm.com .

  • barney

    2 years ago

    To: livinglife & partner

    I think you are both courageous, obviously committed parents. I have never called your intentions into question. I only know you from what the article reveals, which is very little.

    What the article reveals is that you both met at NA meetings, you both have struggled with addiction and are about 4.5 years along the way in recovery. One of you has picked up diseases along the way; there's been life on the streets and prison time. Regarding mental health issues at play, well, substance abuse/addiction disorders are just that - mental health issues. What most addiction experts also acknowledge is that substance addiction disorders almost always suggest other underlying mental health disorders or issues, hence the term 'self-medicating.' About you personally, I can say nothing. But as anonymous subjects of a piece of journalism, I can draw on generalities based on what we know about addiction, mental health and HIV and parenthood.

    I am pretty aware of the science and advances made in HIV treatment. I accept Deborah Money's conclusion that with the right care and treatment, risk of transmission from mother to newborn, these days, has been greatly reduced. This is not the issue.

    The ethical questions, for me: the combination of risk factors the article reveals about you. When these factors are added up, they equal a high risk environment for bringing not one, but two kids, into the world. The issue, as I see it, is about this constellation of risk factors, combined with your decision to have kids. The HIV part of all this, in itself, I have no real issue with, although it certainly doesn’t improve the odds your kids will be healthy.

    My questions are as much about the shoddy journalism by Chow. She tells me little-to-nothing about the rigors of counseling, or lack thereof, that you both went through in deciding to have kids. This is not a black & white issue, as presented by Chow. I am trying to draw out a few of the shades of grey that surely exist in your story. I can find child protection experts, psychiatrists, addiction counsellors, HIV experts who would counsel strongly against people with your combined backgrounds having children. And this is where we get into the muddy water of rights & responsibilities. Society can't, and shouldn't, tell consenting adults what to do with their sperm and wombs. But that doesn't mean your right to procreate -- even if well-intentioned –- is therefore responsible. I think the huge demand for foster homes in BC alone is evidence of this truism. Not having kids is very much an option! And sometimes this is the far more difficult, more courageous option to take. There was nothing in Chow's brief article to suggest this process was fully fleshed out in your case, or how such decisions are arrived at.

    Take care, and as I've said to you before, my best wishes go out to you.

  • livinglife

    2 years ago

    Thank goodness you do not make the rules!

    Every person in this country deserves the best shot no matter what and you know what Barney Ive earned my redemption! I am sure you could find counsellors and psyciatrists that will counsel against it! But I assure you I will find MANY more that are much more QUALIFIED to tell me the truth! I trust fully the pre pregnancy counselling that WE were given. And because we used drugs in the past does not make us have mental health issues lol. That is just absurd.It shows me your lack of education in the issues of substance abuse and HIV. My judgement will never and has never been questioned when it comes to my children. I assure you I am of sound mind and really hope that there are women out there who if in a similar situation, choose to embrace life as not everyone has that chance! There is hope and life out there after HIV. I work everyday of my life making sure women can access these resources on a daily basis. Thank you Barney you give me one more reason to LOVE my job!

  • barney

    2 years ago

    On Mental illness

    Livinglife,

    There's nothing absurd about suggesting a link between addiction and mental illness. The fact you believe this to be absurd speaks to your own misunderstanding or denial of the issue, not mine.

    I see where you are coming from. You are a new parent with a checkered past who is struggling for social acceptance, otherwise you would not have put yourself out there for public viewing via a media story. Yes, of course there is life after HIV and addiction, but the statistical realities of that life cannot be ignore, by you or anyone else.

    Most of your former cohorts on the DTES suffer from both addiction and mental illness, and getting clean doesn't change that statistic. Once an addict, always an addict, right? Mental health issues are not often cured but managed and controlled over a lifetime, usually with the help of medication and counselling of one form or another. HIV is an added complication to worry about.

    A new study by the Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse reports there is a strong connection between addiction and mental illness. It is called concurrent disorders; the medical term for when a person suffers from mental illness and substance abuse at the same time. The study found that 50 per cent of people being treated for an addiction also have a mental illness. It also reports 20 per cent of mental illness patients live with an addiction... http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100409/OTT_addiction_100409/20100409/?hub=OttawaHome

    There's nothing absurd in suggesting this. And again, your reaction to my comments says more about you than a nobody Tyee critic like me.

  • jeanster

    2 years ago

    hope

    Its refreshing to hear a story about a person who was able to leave the DTES. She is setting an example for others and giving hope to others. Its possible to lead a productive life with her work and family.

  • Erica

    2 years ago

    thanks for sharing

    I think Anne's story is a nice change. Most stories out of the DTES are about people dying. Here's a person who had a tough life and took responsibility for her actions. She works as a research assistant at UBC and she volunteers to help other youth to stay away from drugs and alcohol. Thanks for sharing your story.

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