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Let Them Eat Starch
In food lines of Vancouver, we found scant nourishment.
Poor diet worsens illnesses.
In saturating rain, on a bitterly cold Friday morning this spring, we stood in the charity food lines in the Downtown Eastside.
We were curious about the daily experiences of vulnerable peoples dependent on charitable feeding programs in our own community. We wondered whether the Canadian and B.C. governments were implementing their obligations under international law to "respect, protect and fulfil" the human right to adequate food (International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, CESCR, 1976) in Canada's poorest community.
Setting out at 7:30 a.m., we walked the streets and back alleys visiting charitable breakfast and lunch programs -- the Dugout, First United Church, the Carnegie Centre and the Salvation Army's Harbourlight Centre. Between soup lines, we visited the Safe Injection Site and the United We Can Bottle Depot. Waiting our turn, we stood in the lineups in the rain, and once escaped to the sanctuary of a church service at St. James when it was just too wet outside and the doors to breakfast, or rather a cup of soup, a block away had not yet opened.
Why the Poor Are Forced to Eat Poorly
Not all receive welfare
- A 2005 survey of the homeless across the GVRD found that more than 75 per cent of the street homeless were not on welfare. They have no regular income with which to buy food.
- A single person who is on welfare receives a maximum of $7.72 a day to cover food, transportation, clothing and phone calls.
Rooms without cooking facilities
- 71 per cent of the residential rooms in the urban core do not have a fridge or cooking facilities.
- The buildings are 100 years old, and the electrical wiring will not support a hotplate in every room of many of the buildings.
- Food storage is not possible in most of the rooms due to infestation by insects, mice and rats.
-- G.R & J.G.
We were always welcomed, no questions asked, never turned away. The food service was always prompt and efficient. Military precision was pretty much the order of the day. You were told to move on, you did. There was little time for socialization or enjoying one's meal. When you had eaten what was provided (no choosing from the menu here), there was another anxious and meal-less person to take your place. At the Dugout and the Salvation Army you were quickly on your way and out onto the rain soaked streets again. The foods served lacked any sense of sitting down to a good nourishing breakfast or an inviting and well balanced lunch, save at the Carnegie Centre where the cafeteria serves a welcome choice of wholesome and affordable foods and breakfast.
Macaroni in brine
Breakfast at our first stop -- the Dugout -- was a small Styrofoam cup of bitter-tasting hot coffee and a disposable cup of over-salty noodle soup. In fact, the broth, as Judy commented, was saltier than sea water. Impossible to swallow a second teaspoonful. Perhaps just as well, as the policy was only one cup. We carefully fished the few pieces of macaroni out, and ate them. We wondered whether a person might expend more calories walking to the Dugout and standing in line than they received from the pasta in the soup.
It was a crowded space of hurried eating and conversations around small tables. A talkative and articulate young man -- nervous and with a bad chest cold -- conversed about his health issues and how pleased he was about the Canucks' playoff run, as it made folks more generous when he was out panhandling. Most of the customers were men. People were polite, looking for a smoke but unable to linger as the Dugout closed at 8:15 a.m. Everyone was shepherded out onto the street again -- still undernourished and facing another soggy day pounding the concrete.
Wet and cold, and after a refreshing conversation with a young First Nations man from northern Manitoba sitting on the sidewalk, back to the wall -- we stepped across sodden blankets and garbage on the stairway entrance and into the First United Church. Breakfast was already available -- another cup of broth, this with a single tortellini and a tablespoon of frozen mixed vegetables in the bottom of it. Somewhat more tasty, but in no way a well balanced nutritious meal to fortify you after a night sleeping rough or for a rain drenched day ahead.
Carnegie cooks
We left after a brief stay and trudged on, getting more soaked without the protection of umbrellas, to the Carnegie Centre, and were pleased to find a choice of fresh scones and cooked breakfast available for $1.75. Yes, this is a good price and an affordable meal. Yet, even with the recent $50-a-month hike in the welfare support allowance, you would not on a daily basis have enough cash in your pocket for lunch and dinner as well. Little wonder food lines are in business.
Before reaching Harbourlight, the lunch destination, we stopped in at the safe injection site shortly before the 10 a.m. opening time. We were warmly welcomed. Once across the threshold, we had entered an oasis of up-market architecture, light wood flooring, modern lighting, and an open, inviting and roomy space with semi-private drug injection booths. Such modern, well-equipped and comfortable surroundings were a stark contrast to the mean streets and poorly furnished facilities of the community agencies offering free food. Why would one want to leave the warmth of these premises for the turmoil of the streets outside?
While the safe injection site is saving many lives, those using it remain dependent on street-purchased drugs, which have become for the users their substitute for food and nutritional sustenance. Yet, as it was explained to us, there is such a lack of detox programs that the safe injection site is prevented from playing a pivotal role in moving people off drugs. And, in any event, once free of drugs, people would be hard pressed to find nourishing sustenance or life-enhancing diets in the food lines and soup kitchens.
Barren grocery markets
Passing the United We Can Bottle Depot, we dropped in. The place was a hive of industry. The sad reality is that by digging dumpsters for cans and bottles, many people are able to earn money for food.
Back on the streets, we checked out the local corner stores for produce, but drew a blank. Lots of junk food, canned drinks and cigarettes, but no fresh food, fruit and vegetables, fish or meats -- in fact, nothing of any real nutritional value. Yes, there are wonderful produce markets a block away in Chinatown, but unaffordable on a welfare budget of $7.72 a day for food, clothing, transportation and phone calls. On our patch, it was like walking through a food desert, with groceries, farmers markets, supermarkets nowhere to be found even if one had the money to purchase adequate supplies of nutritious food. A community without food is an unforgiving place where the daily grind of survival becomes the norm. And this in Vancouver, a top-ranked international city.
Hurray for a banana
Looking for lunch, we joined the wet and bedraggled lineup outside the Salvation Army's Harbourlight Centre. The food line supervisor issued us red meal tickets. We slowly inched inside and found a couple of seats in the fifth row (of seven) from the front of a large hall -- somewhat akin to being in a holding tank -- and waited for 20 minutes or so until our row was summoned to eat. Facing us high on the wall was a biblical text, and seated at the front of the hall a serious young man played tunes on a grand piano. Other young men, wearing high visibility vests (the kind worn by city road maintenance workers), monitored the crowded hall and gave the signal to collect one's food. As one row emptied, it was quickly filled by newcomers looking for food to fill empty stomachs. All waited patiently until their row was called. When the signal was given, everyone moved with speed.
Like everyone else in the food line, we were each presented with a tray with a set meal: a plate containing a croissant and a bagel; white rice topped by three small slivers of sausage; faded and overcooked green peas; tired-looking cabbage and some kind of curry on the side. And a banana (the food highlight of the day), quickly eaten. The meal was lukewarm and unappetizing, consisting mainly of refined starchy carbohydrates. Presumably it was designed to fill empty stomachs. The temperature at which the meal was served would not have met Food Safe standards. Yes, the meal would sustain as a stopgap. However, those eating there have to rely on the food lines for most of their nutrition. It was not a social occasion, and possibly not intended to be one. And not a meal you would serve to your family or friends.
An older woman, sitting next to us, gladly accepted our leftover croissants and bagels and tucked them in her bag for a later snack. Neither of us could have done a good day's work sustained by the food we were served for breakfast and lunch that morning. We sat, huddled over our trays, facing the lunch supervisors busily moving the food line to the front. If food shared and eaten together is a nourishing and nurturing experience in everyday culture, this was its antithesis. We left more quickly than we had arrived. It was still raining outside, but somehow there was a feeling of relief.
Compassion lacks vitamins
What, then, to make of the food lines visited on this wet, cold morning?
There was abundant evidence of poor, ill-housed or homeless men and women, but mostly men, constantly searching for food or drugs. Compassion, yes, and evidence of social agencies responding through charitable food aid to dire human need. Yet there were glaring disconnects between the quantity and quality of the food provided and any pretence of offering wholesome meals and nutritious diets with the goal of seeking optimal health. Given the quality of the food on offer, with the exception of the Carnegie, one has to ask to what extent the food lines themselves are contributing to poor health and mental illness.
There was no evidence of the right to food, which, as Mary Robinson, the former UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, has publicly stated is not about the handing out of free food, and certainly not in a city as wealthy as Vancouver. While it is easy to be critical of charitable feeding programs, governments at all levels sit idly by. Welfare incomes condemn recipients to hunger and poor nutrition. Why not an action plan for food security -- with benchmarks, indicators, targets -- in the Downtown Eastside, informed by the right to adequate food and nutrition? Is this not Victoria's responsibility? If housing is a priority of the Vancouver Agreement (as it should be), why is access to adequate food and nutritious diets also not a key commitment? Are the Ministry of Health and Ministry of Employment and Income Assistance talking to each other?
Walking the streets, waiting in the food lineups, one is constantly challenged by the question of who is in charge. Ironically, the many acts of charitable goodwill prevent us from asking who is accountable for this morally unacceptable state of affairs. They allow the state to look the other way. Is public indifference by our politicians the flipside to community tolerance? Most of the evidence suggests that the food lines are part of the problem and not the solution. A disturbing question is whether charitable food lines are contributing to malnutrition even as they ease hunger.
Starch for the sick
While acknowledging the intent of the Vancouver Agreement, what explains the absence of governance structures and institutions with the appropriate powers and necessary resources to create a thriving neighbourhood with an affordable, healthy and sustainable food economy? Surely this is the first line of defence along with housing in any effective poverty elimination action plan. What about the long-term health care costs, which must be skyrocketing due to persistently inadequate diets. Should not the food security and optimal nourishment of our most vulnerable populations be our highest health-care priority? If cheap or donated starchy noodles, croissants, bagels and white rice are the main offerings, we have a long way to go.
Many of those who depend on the food lineups are ill. The disabilities and illness were visible among those standing with us. Rates of Hepatitis C, HIV/AIDS and cancer are disproportionately high among people who are homeless and live in the Downtown Eastside. These are people in need of a more nutritious diet than the rest of us, not less.
Vancouver's food lines invite a public conversation about food security, health and welfare policy and human rights. Study after study confirms what we already know: good diets, nutritious food and healthy eating are essential to the physical, mental and social well-being of all our citizens -- the poor who cannot afford or find nutritious foods and the rest of us who patronize junk foods. Nutritious diets are the foundation of all health, and personal, family and community well-being. This is why the universal right to adequate food and nutrition is enshrined in international laws, and why our governments have ratified them.
'Until they are fed'
As governments, health authorities and the Vancouver Food Policy Council today work to develop food policies directed at the optimal nourishment of the population, they need to ensure that those living outside the sustaining boundaries of our economic system can gain access to nutritious foods and diets. Adequate incomes and welfare benefits are absolute prerequisites. A walk through the food lines of the Downtown Eastside shows that compassion by itself is not enough, and that the task is beyond the capacity of charity alone.
As the 2010 Olympics approach, we should be mindful of the words of Jacques Rogge, president of the International Olympic Committee: "Until they are fed, housed and trained, our athletes can't skate, ski or slide" (Celebrate Humanity, 2004). Would it were also the case for the hungry and homeless in Vancouver and British Columbia.
Related Tyee stories:
- 2010: More Homeless than Athletes? (Special Series)
What it will take to provide needed shelter before the Olympics. - Poverty Amidst Plenty
We can brighten the dark side to BC's economy. - Seven Solutions to Homelessness
Each is working somewhere else, and will save money and lives here.
![[Tyee]](http://thetyee.cachefly.net/ui/img/ico_fishie.png){kind=small}
- The Gem of Canadian Science that Harper Killed
- Who Mowed Down the Premier?
- Canada's Economy, Deconstructed (by a 12 year-old)
- Death in Remand: a Tyee Inquiry
- Now Is the Time to Talk up Big Ideas
- Sexism Tinges Criticism of Teachers' Job Action
- Death In Remand: 'A Gut Feeling'
- Bill C-38: the Environmental Destruction Act
- Bias in BC's Pesticide Decision? Follow the Bouncing Verbs
- The Ethics of Addiction Studies
- The Gem of Canadian Science that Harper Killed
- Sexism Tinges Criticism of Teachers' Job Action
- Now Is the Time to Talk up Big Ideas
- The Ethics of Addiction Studies
- Bill C-38: the Environmental Destruction Act
- Alberta Fills Pipes with Corrosive Denial
- Bias in BC's Pesticide Decision? Follow the Bouncing Verbs
- How Our Immune Systems Exaggerate Fear
- BC biotech company seeks approval for GM apple
- What's Behind BC's Doors?
- Why Blackberry's Embrace of HTML5 Is Good Karma
- Bias in BC's Pesticide Decision? Follow the Bouncing Verbs
- Death in Remand: A Jail Crammed with Risk
- The Ethics of Addiction Studies
- What's Behind BC's Doors?
- The Gem of Canadian Science that Harper Killed
- Sexism Tinges Criticism of Teachers' Job Action
- Should You Run from that Medical Test?
- 'The Dictator'
- Death in Remand: Stacked Deck
54
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nightbloom
4 years ago
I vote Vancouver the Meanest
I vote Vancouver the Meanest City in Confederation.
weasel
4 years ago
Food for all
I would like to thank you for the article by Riches and Graves (ironic names in such a subject). The most telling part of their piece, in my opinion is the following quotation:"The many acts of charitable goodwill prevent us from asking who is accountable for this morally unacceptable state of affairs".
For many years I have found food banks morally objectionable because of the underlying assumption that food can be charity. Food is a right. I would like to join a campaign that ensures food for all.
Realist
4 years ago
higher costs to healthcare
I am disabled. I receive a provincial disability pension. I have an eight year old son. I get $900/month to feed, clothe, and provide a home for the two of us. I get more money than "normal" welfare rates but we are not surviving. Due to increased stress and poor diet we end up in emergency quite often. This costs you the taxpayer huge amounts of money. It would be cheaper to give us a survivable income where we can eat and provide for ourselves, but we are refused this dignity. It serves the governments goals of helping to make our healthcare system look unsustainable by increasing the usage by individuals who are forced to live like animals. The public just does not see or hear about how they are being manipulated by this incredibly heartless tactic. But, the public does see the results in "homelessness" and crime. Until recently I was a criminal who resorted to crime to survive poverty. This risked my life, the lives of my customers, and my ability to be a father to my son. We have tried to get the Liberals to increase our pension but, despite giving themselves huge raises as well as huge signing bonuses to government employee's we remain unworthy of the compassion and common sense of increasing our pension. I am being forced to return to my ex life of crime just to be able to support my son's life as well as my own. Does this make sense to you? of course not but this is the reality of our world.
Working Man
4 years ago
The Mentality
"constantly searching for food or drugs"
Perhaps not doing drugs would give these individuals a better future.
Perhaps we can educate our children what this poison does.
Perhaps we can come to the conculsion that drugs are illegal and that enabling is not the solution.
Perhaps we can, as a society, realise that 20 years of enabling has produced the problem in the scale we now have.
Perhaps our do-gooders can actually live in the DTES and meet the people they so much want to help, even invite them into their homes.
Perhaps the Tyee can report that drugs permiate our society on a level much larger than their voyueristic interest in the DTES. For example, a union boss was recently sentenced to a long term for cocaine dealing (which was unreported in the Tyee).
Perhaps the Tyee can interview a street level cop and ask him/her his/her opinions of the problem but since their answers won't fit their agenda, we won't see it happen.
Working Man
4 years ago
Really?
"I vote Vancouver the Meanest City in Confederation."
"I vote Vancouver the Meanest City in Confederation."
Really? Have you ever been anywhere else in Canada? Do you think that people openly deal crack across the street from the Toronto Police HQ? Or Ottawa? Or Winnipeg?
Go to Stats Can and compare the number of drug convictions in Ontario vs British Columbia on a basis of offences per 100,000 population. You will find the stats are much higher in EVERY OTHER province than BC. Where do many of these criminals end up? Well, of course, in BC, where the dope is better, the services more available and the sentences lighter.
Go talk to a cop and he'll tell you the same thing.
Mean? Go to Winnipeg and see what happens to "aggressive panhandlers."
James Burns
4 years ago
Higher costs to everything
The real crime is a wealthy society that has the ability to do so much more. The costs are going to be paid one way or another. If we do not spend the money to provide the poor the necessities to thrive in our society, we will spend even more money on expensive health care, policing, security, and repairing the damage done by vastly greater levels of crime. It's a cliche but it's also very true that a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. The really sad part is, what works is well know in the social sciences, it's just unpopular, because it means supporting those most look down upon, rather than those most look up to. The amount of deference and subsidy the wealthy receive compared to the poor is utterly insane. The people who need it the least get the most.
G West
4 years ago
Yes, wm I have
And I completely agree with nightbloom's label - he has my vote too.
Stump
4 years ago
outlaw the drugs and lock-up the addicts
And there will be less cigarette butts on the streets, Seagrams will go out of business and Hockey Night in Canada will go off the air because its main sponsor would be just another drug dealer.
Telling people what they can put in their bodies. The new hallmark of a free society. Not.
Don't think it through Working Man. Your head will explode.
nightbloom
4 years ago
Quote:Have you ever been
From Sea to Sea to Sea, and I've lived in all of Canada's four largest metropolitan areas. And there's no "Mean Street" quite like Vancouver's.
Have you?
Stump
4 years ago
dealing across from the cop shop
Can't speak to those other jurisdictions, but I think if the police got out of their cars here in Vancouver and got back on the beat it would go a long way towards cleaning up our streets.
As a Mount Pleasant resident I am amazed by the lack of police presence in a neighbourhood where drug-dealing and the sex trade take place at all hours. A couple of cops actually walking around the 'hood could go a long way to addressing the problem IMO.
Working Memory
4 years ago
Most liveable city?
Barely.
Working Memory
4 years ago
Meanest citizens
Quit blaming the police or politicians.
If this is the meanest city, and it surely is, then it reflects directly back on the average citizens.
Citizens of Vancouver are mean and uncaring. "You" are mean.
This is your city and it is wholly your fault. Take some responsibility for what you have allowed Vancouver to become.
Shame on you all. Shame on us.
Shame on me.
Working Memory
4 years ago
Send this page to The Economist
I hope David Beers and everyone here sends this page to The Economist.
I've heard the explanation regarding how they come up with voting Vancouver the most livable city, but no matter how hard I try, the reasoning still escapes me.
Here's their version of Vancouver
Here's their email address.
Send it to Sullivan too.
skeptikool
4 years ago
Homelessness doesn't help
I agree with Working Man on the attractiveness of B.C.'s Lower Mainland, but not only to the criminal and the indigent. It was the relatively tropical winter climate that brought this working stiff from Trenton, Ontario.
I don't doubt that homelessness and lack of social housing is much at the root of the problem.
On the matter of diet, even those able to properly feed themselves put away a lot of crap that passes for food. At an Asian food court recently, with the seafood items I chose, I was given the choice of fried rice, steamed rice, or either with noodles. I asked for steamed brown rice. The stall didn't have it. Neither did any other of the several food stalls.
If one is resourceful, one need not be wealthy to enjoy a healthy diet. Savvy buyers and more communal kitchens would do much to resolve the problems.
GJW
4 years ago
Waste of space
How terrible, the free food being handed out doesn't meet our standards.
Do something about it, then. Tighten the budget and make regular financial donations to the Salvation Army or whoever and ask for the money to go towards serving more nutritious meals. I bet they would be thrilled to receive money to serve better food.
Calling for government intervention sounds nice, but if we're waiting for government to step in and save us we're going to be waiting a long time.
Name
4 years ago
Meanest citizens
Working Man is right on. Don't blame someone else.
If we have signed international conventions committing to food for all citizens as a basic human right, then we need to hold our governments accountable for providing the necessary infrastructure to guarantee that it is delivered to all, no questions asked, three squares a day.
And with full credit to all the well-intentioned efforts, that doesn't mean leaving it to the whims of charity.
flattax
4 years ago
The food is FREE
They are lucky to get it. Maybe we should feed them McDonald's every day instead.
For people in the DTES abusing their body the way they do, they obviousley don't give a toss about their health anyway. Why should taxpayers?
And by the way, Vancovuer is the best place to live. The DTES is irrelevat to that. Just don't cross main street to the Republic of East Vancouver and everything is rosy.
G West
4 years ago
NOT
In the 'best' place on earth no doubt; according to Campbell's Bureau of Public Affairs bumpf. George Orwell died far too soon evidently - he should have taken George Woodcock's advice and come to Canada.
Have you ever read 'Candide', flattax?
Because you should. Then you could dump that flattax label and pick up one that's a little more apt - like Dr Pangloss.
JDoe
4 years ago
something positive...
"Sustainable communities—Supporting an organic farm in British Columbia's lower mainland
Inmates at a minimum-security prison in British Columbia have found an innovative way to acquire new skills and training—and to help the hungry at the same time.
In 2002, the Greater Vancouver Regional District (GVRD) estimated there were 1,200 homeless people in the region. Many of these individuals had diets that didn't meet their daily nutritional requirements.
When he found out about this problem, Kuldip Samra, an inmate at the Ferndale Institution, a federal minimum-security prison in Mission, B.C., began lobbying Correctional Service Canada (CSC) for approval to establish an organic farm on an unused piece of prison property. CSC approved the request, and began looking for partners to help establish and fund the project.
Service Canada provided funds from its National Homelessness Initiative to buy tools and compost. CSC's offender rehabilitation program (CORCAN), the B.C. Community Housing Employment, and the Raw Food Society of British Columbia also contributed financial support and advice for the project.
The Ferndale Organic Farm and Vocational Training Program now grows produce for soup kitchens, food banks, and school-lunch programs in the surrounding region. Between 10 and 20 inmates participate in the project each year. Many of them have acquired valuable vocational skills and training that will help them find work in agriculture after they have served their sentences.
In 2004, the Farm supplied more than three tonnes of produce to Vancouver-area community organizations. In 2005, the project was expanded to supply food to the ever-increasing number of social agencies in the Vancouver area. The Farm's next goal is to try to grow enough food to make 1,500 meals a day."
and
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=ba2830b4-f73f-4186-98de-7fc6609475b9
GJW
4 years ago
Great story
Thanks for posting that great story, JDoe.
murdock
4 years ago
Working Memory
No shame to me, thank you very much.
I left.
A choice that many will make, especially as the situation deteriorates.
What do you think creates the 'ghetto's like DTES in the first place?
Abscence of supports, like good food options, simply make the responsible adults choose to domicile elsewhere, like closer to the food?
Good basic point raised in the article, as far as solutions? Do not turn to governments to do that task...they worked very hard at creating the circumstances in the firts place -> height of insanity would be to expect something different from the government's like that black hole called the mayor's office!
IF nothing changes, nothing changes. The situation in the DTES will take a massive change in approach and attitude from everyone to solve, sadly we 'collectively' have not shown that we can make this kind of change on our own without some sort of catastrophy either happen, happening or about to overtake us.
Stump
4 years ago
Quote:For people in the DTES
Because providing a healthy diet is cheaper than providing medical care. Because mighty oaks come from small acorns... and healthy food can be a stepping-stone to a healthier lifestyle.
Because if we treat people with addiction problems like human beings worthy of good nutrition, maybe the idea will rub off on them and precipitate a change in their outlook and way of life.
Because we have enough to share. Looked in a grocery store or restaurant dumpster lately? There's good food going to waste every day. Spending the relative pittance it would take to better feed the less fortunate isn't some grand gesture of charity, it's a small thing. The fact we aren't doing it at a governmental level speaks volumes about the way we are slowly losing the generosity and empathy that should characterize our well-off society.
Surely there's no better thread to toss out the hoary old saying, "as ye reap, so shall ye sow."
Josephine
4 years ago
NDP no longer cares
We can't just blame Sam or Gordon for the lack of caring.
This province's official opposition no longer offers advocacy on social justice issues. For example, In Carol James' own riding, a quality community living situation for people with disabilities is being closed down by the province and Carol James has refused to meet with the the well-organized and skilled advocates arguing against its closure.
Another case in point: The NDP's Mike Farnsworth is busy attacking the Liberal government's plan to actually provide some affordable, appropriate housing for people living with mental illness in an effort to win his party votes from the NIMBY-ites in the Riverview riding. Anyone who criticizes James from within the caucus is soundly disciplined, apparently.
Not enough people with consciences have "pull" any more.
Oh how I lament the lack of an opposition in the BC Legislature!
Working Man
4 years ago
Racism?
"At an Asian food court recently"
Skeptikool, if you ever visit east Asia, you will find that brown rice is rarely, if ever, consumed and is even hard to find in stores.
The "four pillars" approach is really a good option but one that has really never gotten off the ground. I also urge all the lefties here to actually spend some time with the addicts on Hastings St, even open their homes to them. That would be a valuable lesson.
And never, ever, in my entire travels, which amounts to every continent except Antarctica, have I ever seen open drug dealing in front of a police station except in Vancouver.
Bobby Peru
4 years ago
Happy Shiny People
It's pointless for you lefties to try shame us honest, hard working people into pouring and wasting truckloads of money on the wasteland called DTES. Most of these people made stupid, irresponsible choices on recreational drugs and now all of us must pick up the tab? Like 'Working Man' wrote above, why don't you lefties open our house to some of them and experience why charity would be misplaced. These druggies would empty out your house. And stop all the poverty pimping.
So what are we supposed to do, provide each of them with housing? You must be kidding? In Vancouver, one of the most expensive cities around? And are you naive enough to think their problems would go away after that? Most of these druggies choose drugs over life. Any housing should be in cheap places like Yellowknife. Vancouver is a magnet for vagrants because of the weather. So if we create more housing for the homeless we'll just end up importing them from elsewhere.
Complaining about charity food? What did you expect? It's a charity. Don't forget- it's not my fault they made wrong choices in life. Welcome to life and its pitfalls.
Some friends from Toronto were recently in Vancouver and they were appalled at the Calcutta levels of homelessness and vagrancy and panhandling that blight Vancouver. I'd like to know what Toronto does wih their homeless. Or where they ship them.
Giving these people nice food and comfortable homes only enables them to do more drugs. We need forced treatment and incarceration to get them off the street and out of our way.
G West
4 years ago
I agree totally Bobby the P
You're beyond shaming.
As for your decryption of yourself as honest and hardworking...that's about as meaningful as the labels you throw at others and as useless as evidence of anything other than your inability to actually empathize with another human being.
When you and Working man have nothing constructive to contribute - much of the time by the record you leave here - you move along to the next rotten apple in your armamentarium - ad hominem abuse.
Wake me if you have something of any significance to actually contribute. As for throwing people in jail, at least there the victims of our way of life would get nutritious food as a matter of right and not a result of back-handed charity.
dorothy
4 years ago
- What was that again?
“This is why the universal right to adequate food and nutrition is enshrined in international laws, and why our governments have ratified them.”
This is hardly controversial on the face of it, but the devil is in the details. The problem is of the same nature as that of who’s going to bell the cat. Where are the extra resources going to be taken from? Who is not going to get what as a consequence?. Nobody steps forward to volunteer their nearest and dearest priorities, so the meanness lies not so much in not providing, or being willing to, it lies in being hypocritical that we will actually do so, and then not letting action follow preemptive credit-taking, when the chips are down. It would be more honest to put quotas on how many people we let inside the walls of our fair city to be included in the circle of friends in need we will care for. I do not, in all honesty, think that you automatically have a claim on all and sundry people, just because you have manged to land yourself on their doorstep. I would question that this is part of Human Rights. I believe the original intent regarding Human Rights was, that if one had created a living for oneself, by legititmate means, then no one could arbitrarily help themselves to its proceeds by way of superior strength or some perception of structural authority, with or without discriminatory rationalizations . The extended interpretation has been created in order to be able grab tax money for these purposes, so as to take the pressure away from the rich, who would otherwise be an obvious target for those looking for sustenance, as well as their advocates.
Of course the issue gets greatly complicated by many of the down-and-out people having gotten into that situation, because Human Rights were in fact trampled to do the original damage...as in 'we owe them'...
When all is said and done, it comes back to, to what extent the old value of hospitality is or is not still part of our culture. Years back, I have seen greengrocers in this town deliberately dirty vegetables and fruit that was a little far gone, before throwing them out, so that no one would get anything for free, while others separated them nicely for a clearly intended give-away. I believe that the notion that nothing should be for free is the most pervasive one we can point to in our daily grind here and now, as in The Smug Minority: ‘no one ever gave ME anything for free’... It may or may not be in protest of the falling apart of the community or sense of community. There are certainly circles of friends, where mutual generosity is in place, but demanding it from and directed towards strangers goes against what appears to be our basic nature, at least as it presents itself here and now.
I believe if this was a bunch of lab rats we were looking at, we would call it a symptom of crowding.
Jane Doe
4 years ago
Impossible to wander through
Impossible to wander through that neighborhood and not feel empathy for the lost souls that meander through its streets.
I have driven through it for many years and seen the situation go from bad to worse.
Considering the huge amounts of money that have targeted that from all levels of government as well as private, it is tragic to see the lack of results.
However having said that, it is also clear that there is no quick fix solution here. It will need some really creative minds on this one to even make a dent. Just throwing more money over the wall is not the answer.
Government is hopeless at dealing with this kind of problem, we need brighter minds that can think a problem through. We need a Gates, Buffet or our own Jimmy P. to feel the need to tackle this one
flattax
4 years ago
Bobby P - I agree completely
I wish to add that the more money that is thrown away in the DTES the worse the problem gets. It is a little industry down there, a economy of scale in drug abuse, all self inflicted of course. And we are supposed to pay for their bad choices in life.
The lefties love to say that safe injection sites and better food and living conditions keep them out of the health care system and is cheaper to taxpayers in the long run. The Lefties are forgetting the crimes these people commit to support their habits.
An overdose or death due to AIDS or other self inflicted damage will likely be even cheaper to taxpayers. Let them fester in the DTES, I say, they are there because they choose to be there. Let's reward success and punish failure. Rewarding failure, just breeds more of it.
FREE COMMENT FROM VARIOUS MORAL STANCES IS ALLOWED ON THE TYEE, BUT THIS COMMENT SEEMS TO ME TO LACK ALL MORALITY, GIVEN THAT 'FLATTAX' WILLS THE HASTENED DEATHS OF PEOPLE WITH AIDS OR ADDICTIONS. FLATTAX IS BLOCKED FROM FURTHER COMMENTING ON THE TYEE, AS I DON'T INTEND TO POUR EFFORT INTO THIS SITE IN ORDER TO CREATE A FORUM FOR EXPRESSED INHUMANITY. -- DAVID BEERS, TYEE EDITOR.
janh
4 years ago
Why VPD ignores DTES drug use/dealing
Simple -- it doesn't WORK. Just like the "War on Drugs" in the US and the multi-billion $$ that Washington spends every year on it -- that doesn't work either, and never will. And need I mention our own DARE program -- the pride of the RCMP? Ever seen the stats on how well THAT works?? Way back in the '70's, Canadian law inforcement saw drug addicts as the worst kind of criminals -- people went to jail for years for possession of even small amounts of heroin. The courts, the public, the media and the medical profession all saw addicts as criminal and morally reprehensible. Nobody saw it as an "illness" -- the idea of harm reduction would never have been even considered. The police were hard-line back then -- "choke holds", entrapment, brutal "resisting arrest" beatings,etc. were all well-accepted techniques in BC's fight against hard-drugs. Anyway, my point is that busting people sucking on a pipe or fixing on the sidewalk in the DTES is pointless -- THAT'S why it's ignored. Essentially, VPD (rank and file on up) has given up the fight (ever hear of Sisyphus??) Tragically, it's still as hard today to get into a Detox in Vancouver as it was 30 or 40 years ago. What Vancouver didn't have back then were the homeless and the hungry. You also rarely saw anybody "panhandling". Welfare was reasonably easy to get -- and it was enough to rent a place to live. There WERE no food banks -- the church soup kitchens were only for the far-gone rice-wine drinkers. If you were on Welfare then you got enough money to buy food -- the provincial government of the time considered it a responsibility to make sure that the poor weren't sleeping in doorways and lining up for food. (Voters didn't like it.....!) How times have changed, eh?
As far as what we need now -- more detox beds and access to treatment -- when asked for and NOT three weeks later! A govt. that will actually facilitate building affordable housing (NOT more $500,000 condos) and a govt. that will stop patting themselves on the back for that bloated budget SURPLUS and raise welfare and disability rates to something liveable.
Stump
4 years ago
Lefty schmefty
Like hard-line Marxist Leninist and former mayor Philip Owen?
Bobby Peru
4 years ago
Warren Buffett Tried
Funny you should mention Warren Buffett. He poured alot of money into homeless shelters in San Diego and he said it only resulted in a migration of homeless people to the location.
No matter how much money we spend on shelters and homes for the homeless there will always be more demands. Meanwhile, the rest of society needs resources. And try explaining it to other hard working Vancouverites who struggle at paying for their own homes. Why should we pour so much into homes in Vancouver- the most expensive market in Canada, for the homeless.
The homeless- most of who made bad drug choices should be shipped to shelters- work camps outside of Vancouver where it's cheaper to support them. We have to dispel this romantic notion of having to subsidize their life in Vancouver. The left in Vancouver simply loves to show off poverty and enlist everyone in their dream to convince the proletariat that all wealth should be redistributed.
G West
4 years ago
Bobby the P
Substitute JEW, or homosexual, or Jehovah's Witness, or Romany, or handicapped, or lame or retarded or just about any other noun for people who don't happen to measure up to your standard of performance and propriety and that statement would have been de rigueur during the thirties in Nazi Germany - you've even managed to blame it all on the leftists - who, just like in Germany in the 30s - weren't in power either.
If that comment isn't redacted, obviously the operative criteria for offensive statements have changed.
The Marie Antoinette reference at the top of this article is apt indeed.
Truly sad.
Stump
4 years ago
Free to live
Last time I checked, one was free to live wherever they choose in this country. Assigning populations to regions based upon income is a little too authoritarian for my tastes.
Your simplistic solution won't work. Do you think rural homeowners who move to escape big-city ills will welcome an influx of drug-addicted, mentally ill people to their towns?
Working Man
4 years ago
Welcome to Reality
Yes, huge sums have been poured into the place for the last 20 years or so. Has it improved anything? No, of course not, it has only made the place worst through enablement.
I will openly admit that I am a recovering alcoholic. I haven't touched the stuff in ten years. Does my wife calling my boss and telling him I'm sick help me? Does cleaning up my vomit help me? Does doing a beer run for me help me? Of course it doesn't, it is enabling.
Bobby Peru is someone who knows the scene first hand. Giving these people handouts only enables them. "Safe Injection Sites" are only tools that make lefties, far away from the problem, feel better about themselves. "We are doing something by helping those poor people so they won't come into our neighbourhood." Meanwhile, the smack dealers are lined up chock a block in the alley behind the place. Go have a look for yourselves.
Why doesn't the Tyee have the guts to interview a a street cop and see what he has to say about enabling the drug problem?
I have the perfect leftie solution: Give all the crackheads and junkies a four bedroom house, a million dollars and all the dope they want. Stock the freezer with filet mignon. Put them four to a house.
In a month, the money, the dope and all the metal in the house will be gone and all the occupants dead either from od's or killing each other over the last rock.
alive
4 years ago
easy to say
Really?
Wrong choice in life to be ill?
Wrong choice to barely be able to hold a job?
It must be great to have no compassion, you can feel good and safe, because you made the right choice to be born healthy and have parent(s) who could afford to give you an education, or are you perhaps living off the shares you inherited?
Well good for you, but please realize that nobody are ill or poor by choice.
Stump
4 years ago
These Are the people in my neighbourhood
I'll ignore the usual "leftie" label. Too easy.
When there's rehab houses outside of the DTES, and Kerrisdale and Shaughnessy residents don't fight tooth and nail against every rehab house in their part of town, then you can take the high moral ground. Until then, all you seem to want to do is ignore the problem and hope it will go away.
Working Man
4 years ago
Demographics, again
"Kerrisdale and Shaughnessy residents don't fight tooth and nail against every rehab house in their part of town"
This is kind of an ironic statement and has a lot to do with the changing demographics in BC. First of all, the aboved mentioned areas are being bought up en mass by Asian immigrants as the white population dies off, largely due to the density debates of the late 1970's and 80's.
Even more ironic is that the proposed construction of a treatment facility in Hasitings-Sunrise is being vehemently opposed by the local residents, mostly Asian immigrants. They are, even MORE ironically, being supported in their opposition by their NDP MLA Shane Simpson.
Now, maybe we can learn something from this. In Japan, for example, if you are drunk in public, or get into a scuffle in a bar, the cops will take you home to the wrath of your wife. They will then call you down to the police station to write an apology letter.
However, if you consume drugs of any sort, you will get one year in jail. If sell drugs, you'll get ten years and if you import, you'll get life. People know it, too. The authorities are precient enough that if they let the problem start it will quickly get out of control. Property crime is practically non-existant.
Here if you do drugs, there are practically no consequences other than the fact you will eventually kill yourself doing it. You can steal, rob and threaten with practical impunity and then complain about the free food you are getting. You can also count on do gooders making it even easier for you do poision yourself and keeping you from o/d-ing because you are trying to get the best buzz just short of killing yourself.
Stump
4 years ago
There are drugs and then there are drugs
Alcohol is a drug too, so there goes your "of any sort' comment.
If you want a cost-effective way to save human lives, you'll never be satisfied. Would you deny the stranded mountain climber, or sinking yacht owner (there of his/her own choice) a rescue mission because it's too expensive?
What about the infant in need of a new heart? After all, they haven't contributed anything to society.
To crib someone else's aphorism, if you don't like the cost of compassion, you should consider the alternative. If you refuse to treat drug addicts to the same interventions as others suffering from sickness don't be surprised when they act in a barbarous fashion. Monkey see, monkey do.
Working Memory
4 years ago
Addiction is mental illness
Many types of addiction are forms of temporary mental illness.
Most addicts are not lost causes, although some people will never be able to manage their affairs on their own. These people are truly mentally ill.
Addicts never want to admit they have a mental illness because of the stigma attached to it. Instead it is easier and more socially acceptable for them to think that they have a disease caused by someone else, i.e. the alcohol or drug manufacturer, or the casino.
If you can relate to addicts as children, in some respects, it will be easier for you to have compassion, and then the next step is wanting to know what went wrong and when, and finally, how to help them.
Addiction doesn't manifest itself overnight. It takes years, and the reasons are complex, as are the solutions. Throwing money at it is a band aid solution. Compassion is the real secret.
It's really not that hard to help an addict, but first you have to "want" to help.
You don't cure addictions. You cure people.
Stump
4 years ago
"sauce" for the gander
Since your behaviour may well have brought it on, if your liver packs it in down the road can we assume you'll take a pass on a transplant then?
G West
4 years ago
And this
Resorting to Reductio ad absurdum now, are you? I realize you're scraping the bottom of the tank but that is just ridiculous. Bobby the P a realist? Heaven forefend.
I can recall the same sort of attitude being expressed, in the same egotistical and bigoted way, toward First Nations Canadians...exactly the same sort of thing - from the same selfish and narcissistic sort of personal. And always with the blame that it's somehow the lefties fault.
Well, I've got news for you; the lefties haven't been in power for more than 10% of the time in the last 110 years so the actual blame for not coming up with solutions is, conservatively, 90% on the righty’s plate. So suck it up fellas, without Nazi concentration camps, what IS YOUR SOLUTION? Because for all the time you guys and your heroes like Campbell have been in power nothing has changed...but it has gotten worse.
How long before you finally clue in?
Working Memory
4 years ago
DTES exponential
The challenge in Vancouver is that at some point, the volume and concentration of addicts in the downtown east side began to grow at an exponential rate, which to some makes it seem hopeless to fix except through eradication.
Gentrification is a nasty word, but real estate marketers like Bob Rennie make it sound like a glorious thing.
Are you concerned now because the secret is out, and the world is starting to learn that Vancouver ignored thousands of mentally ill people in our city who desperately needed help?
It's embarrassing to have to now face the rest of Canada and admit that we're not even close to being as humane as we've led the world to believe. In one breath we've leapt from gloating to ashamed.
Local news media played you, but you allowed it because it fed your ego.
If 2010 embarrassment is what it takes for politicians and local mainstream media to start to act responsibly, I'll take it.
What I won't except though is that at one turn they use their positions for personal gain, and when the spotlight is shone in an unflattering manner on the city they switch gears to become preening saviours.
It's like pushing a child in front of a train and snatching them back at the last minute so they can stand in the spotlight like a hero.
Coddling citizens is criminal.
How many of you felt a warm rush as your property value obscenely increased over the last few years during Olympic frenzy?
Surely you didn't think the astronomical increase was a result of something good our bumbling politicians did?
If you want to blame someone for the heartache in the DTES look in the mirror. Your greed is also to blame because you let opportunists destroy your city by creating a deeper divide. You were snookered.
It happens like this in every Olympic region, but the big problem here is that we can't simply sweep it under the rug because it would be impossible to find one big enough.
Now that it's out of control, what will you do to make it right?
Running away or ignoring the 800lb gorilla is no longer an option.
I have a plan. I hope you do too.
Working Man
4 years ago
Ad Homenium
"Since your behaviour may well have brought it on, if your liver packs it in down the road can we assume you'll take a pass on a transplant then?"
This is an ad homenium attack. I was also 100% responsible for every drink I ever took and I was 100% responsible for stopping and in my life I have happily paid more taxes to the system than I will ever use. Luckily for me, I stopped before it permanently damaged me.
"And always with the blame that it's somehow the lefties fault."
Show me where I said that however it does seem that more enabling is part of your agenda.
"Surely you didn't think the astronomical increase was a result of something good our bumbling politicians did?"
The increase in the problems in the DTES is a direct result of politicians NOT doing anything except enabling addicts to score more easily, shoot up with a bigger load and provide them with more charity.
The "four pillar" strategy was a good one but so far we have only had one pillar. The fact also remains that although the DTES has great voyeuristic appeal it is ultimately up the the individual to stop doing drugs.
I also agree that addiction is a form of mental illness which, by the way, is central to Bill W's writings. Thus we need to use the mental health act to help solve the problem, not the criminal courts. This would require a significant investment on society's part, even to the point of allowing mental health centres in YOUR neighbourhood.
Education is also key. In the 1970s governments realised that although they were reaping billions in tobacco taxes, the cost to society was higher. Thus, they embarked on an education campaign that has been highly successful. Everybody knows someone who was killed by smoking and fewer and fewer do it.
But do we really have any education in the schools on the danger of hard drugs? Hardly. Why not take a bus load of grade 7 students to the DTES and show them what hard drugs will do to them? I will tell you why: it is big business in selling them and then treating the users.
Same with booze which is by FAR the most abused drug of them all. Governments reap huge fortunes off of it and they know the average drunk will be dead before he/she collects the OAP, making it a net gainer.
I am not a huge fan of AA but there are parts of their programme that opened my eyes. It is Anonymous for a reason because its treament programme is so individually centred.
Stump
4 years ago
Quote:"Since your behaviour
EDITED FOR TIRESOME BICKERING.
raingirl
4 years ago
From Riverview to the DTES
I’ve been following this thread with interest …
I wholeheartedly agree with Working Man’s comment that “we need to use the mental health act to help solve the problem, not the criminal courts. This would require a significant investment on society's part, even to the point of allowing mental health centres in YOUR neighbourhood”.
The dismantling of Riverview has, I’m sure, thrown a fair share of ex-patients into the DTES.
Which brings me back to an earlier comment by Josephine that “The NDP's Mike Farnsworth is busy attacking the Liberal government's plan to actually provide some affordable, appropriate housing for people living with mental illness in an effort to win his party votes from the NIMBY-ites in the Riverview riding”.
This is so completely untrue that I must question where she gets her information from. The people of the Tri-City areas have always valued Riverview, and not just for its trees and jobs. The petitions for saving the Riverview lands include, first & foremost, a demand that the grounds be preserved for mental health and wellness services. The Campbell government is desperately trying to override Coquitlam’s wishes to keep the Riverview lands out of developers’ hands. The housing proposed by the Liberal government is primarily market value, with minimal amounts of affordable housing … and we know how that balance usually changes once construction is underway … Oops, we can no longer afford to build the low-income portion. So while I can see how 7000 new homes on the Riverview grounds will help the developers I can’t see how it will benefit the mentally ill (and potential addicts) for whom it was originally intended.
For those who are interested, here is the link to the petition to preserve the Riverview lands:
http://www.petitiononline.com/rview/petition.html
Jane Doe
4 years ago
Rehab services
The problems facing the rehabilitation of drug addicts, or persons with dual diagnosis are huge. I do not understand why planners of rehab facilities would add to their burden and even attempt to set up shop on some of the Lower Mainlands most expensive real estate.
Why not keep the cost of capital expenditure down and flow that money into operations, like counseling or medical services.
Why would anyone in their right mind propose a drug rehab clinic in British Properties or Shaughnessy - just for the fun of poking at the wealthy. Might be mildly amusing for a moment; then the expense statement comes in.
Perhaps we need to start a triage approach, and frankly people that are currently sleeping in the streets might be quite happy being looked after in specially designed - small- spaces that are clean and secure and well away from "the street".
Drastic situations sometimes require drastic measures to correct, and providing quality treatment, in volume, seems more important than providing treatment to a lesser volume in a fancy location.
And quite frankly if some sector of that addicted population has serious criminal tendencies then I think the first stage of rehab should be in a thinly populated area.
I have volunteered at Riverview for a number of years and quite frankly not a single person has commented on the view or the hundred year old trees.
Going through a rehab program is one small aspect of a redirected life style. Perhaps we need a more holistic approach where clients pass not from rehab to the street, but through a series of programs designed to rebuild that person's self esteem once the basic chemical dependency is showing signs of waning.
If we focus our attention on pushing services into high priced neighborhoods, then the whole debate will quickly get bogged down in debates about nimbyism.
If the less wealthy want to poke at the rich they should choose a area that doesn't require such an urgent resolution.
Stump
4 years ago
tiresome bickering
Whatever editor. Getting a little heavy-handed when a few lines of rebuttal gets the axe.
I imagine this message will suffer the same fate.
Stump
4 years ago
Shaugnessy and Kerrisdale
Doesn't have to be expensive. The City owns land all over the city. Once people commit to getting clean it may be helpful to be a few kilometres away from old stomping grounds.
Jane Doe
4 years ago
old stomping grounds
I can appreciate the sentiment Stump, and that sounds great for for a couple of guys coming back into Vancouver after years away, and visiting the old stomping ground for a couple of beers.
For seriously chemically dependent individuals that visit to the "old stomping grounds" it sounds like the kiss of death.
Anyway let Vancouver sell its rich local real estate and buy acreage somewhere far from the problem area. When we are talking about hundreds, perhaps a couple of thousand people in need of rehab then we are in the volume business.
Stump
4 years ago
crossed wires
a slight misunderstanding Jane. I don't mean being a few km away from the "old stomping grounds" is a good thing because one can return, but rather having rehab centres in the midst of it all (putting facilities in the heart of the DTES) makes it too easy to backslide in a moment of weakness.
zalm
4 years ago
too bad...
...flattax is gone. His point of view was shared by many balding middle-aged white males on CKNW's phone-in lines. It's always useful to be able to answer them succinctly, which is not as easy to do as you might think. We all need the practice.
W/man and R/man, you'll have to step in to fill the shoes. Big ones they are, too.
Incidentally, CMAJ noted a few years ago the average cost of a liver transplant was $121,000 including the lifetime of followup care. Actually, they said that uncomplicated cases for older people with short lifespans was around $66,000 while for younger adults with severe complications, the total was more like $690,000.
Since the global health budget comprises 11% of total government spending in Canada, and since income tax comprises about 35% of total government revenues, one would have had to pay taxes of $385,000 over the last ten years in order to be able to say "I happily paid more taxes to the system than I would ever use."
Such a rich audience we have here.... in irony.
zalm
4 years ago
We've strayed a long way...
...from the article.
Whatever you may think of druggies etc., Judy Graves is one of the few people in the city that I know who can help me get a handle on what moves my crazed friend John.
John was a well-off West Van kid, hyperactive, undisciplined, intelligent, but not too motivated to do anything but what he wanted to do. 'A's in auto shop, computer science, chemistry and math, failures for non-attendance in nearly everything else. Didn't graduate. Parents divorced.
Daddy gave him a job in his parts store downtown, John drifted from that job to others, from one apartment and girlfriend to another, then onto UI several times, then finally welfare a few times, all before he was 23. Minor drug use, marijuana and alcohol.
Then mental illness hit big-time. Then Mom and Dad both died within two years of each other. Some friends hung on, or tried to, most didn't. There's no courses in school for how to deal with this kind of thing when it happens to your best friend. And by 28 he was into serious usage. Then serious criminality.
Yet somehow, almost twenty years later he's still HIV-free.
My stories about running with him and trying to support him are legion. We still meet periodically, but on my schedule, not his. And that is precisely what Judy Graves called meeting his need for compassion, but not meeting his need for assistance or therapy.
It's all I can do, and it costs me a lot of time and money. I've also met some of the so-called "poverty pimps" who help John live where he does. Their stories about him are Edvard Munch meets Monty Python. Every one of them has a heart big enough to care where John lays his head at night or make sure he showers periodically.
Not me. Sigh.
Yes, John behaved badly, though not criminally, when he was young. He made few attempts to develop the tools to help him resist adversity, which he had to do unaided when his parents died and his friends (me) were unable. But he got kicked in the head with a circumstance that few of us suffer - mental illness so prevalent and persistent that delusions await around every corner, and the best medications barely counter them while the second tier merely confuse reality with thought.
Judy understands this life of John's better than I do. She speaks about it as potently as possible. Yet, still few understand.
What hope do I have, with such poetry and prose as I own at my command?
zalm
4 years ago
John Donne tried
...No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main....
...Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee....
Meditation XVII