I think that the nurses "Patient's Bill of Rights" should be seen for what it is....an honest and sincere attempt at informing the public of what they pay for and deserve, written with as much thought and care as they would like to administer to all in need of medical treatment

Under the (so-called) Liberal gov't. this will never happen unless you are wealthy. What the people of this province and this country have built up over the past hundred years is being systematically destroyed by our two top levels of gov't. It' too bad ( in a way, but I guess not really) that Canadians are so civilized, because if we weren't there would be a lot of empty seats in the legislature and parliament.

Check out what's happening in England...amazing. http://www.nhs.uk/patientsvoice/default.asp We could afford many improvments to our care system if prescription drugs were privately tested for efficacy - rather than everyone believing what the false claims of the manufacturers. As an example, check Tyee's article on flu vaccine - I always knew it didn't do much except making patients sore or sick for a day or so and making the manufacturers rich.

More Unenforced Bill of rights is just what we need.. some of the biggest immoral abusers are the professionals themselves, civil and public servants.. look how many of them steal from work to supply their home personal needs.. at the tax payers expenses.. cops, doctors, nurses, politicians, managers.. what we need is some of these really bad people to firstly be pout in a real jail.. to experience appropriate rewards rather firstly.

The past real personal abuse of my personal legal, human rights by crooked lawyers, crooked cops, inadequate federal and provincial solicitor Generals, Attorney Generals and even crooked pastors anywhere in Canada is not something I or God will overlook still in reality. The very first thing they all do still really need remember is the reality, whether they do believe it or not that even the blood of Jesus still does not cover the consequences of one's personal unrepentant sins, past abuse of others even if one now is a Christian too.. if you do not admit your sin you will still reap the negative consequences till you do.. Any VALID PERSONAL FORGIVNESS still only applies firstly to those who admit their wrong doing too, repent of it and who ask for it, the bad cops AND THEIR BAD SUPERIORS now included. The Police are a necessary service, force in Canada too but I still cannot get over the real shock of my own personal human, legal rights being ravaged, trampled upon more than once too by the too often immoral, pretentious, incompetent police in Canada and thus for anyone to say that I am personal rightfully dissatisfied with the police forces or their past, present supervisors now as well in Canada, the RCMP included would be still a gross rightful understatement. Some persons say it could be a lot worse. but I would reply and say it needs to be a lot better. As simple and as basic as it may seem, it is still very much doubtful whether all of the members of the public can safely rely on this presumption that all of the police officers are even professional still. Not only now should all of the police ranks be trained and properly instructed as to the circumstances when an issuing of fine, or a firearm, an arrest can be used but it is also only those police officers who have clearly demonstrated and can maintain a requisite degree of responsibility they n should be allowed at any time to do this too, but they all still should be under the control of a mature, responsible, competent and experienced supervising rank at all times now too in reality. The quality of the present policemen allowed to do their duties, to do arrests or to carry firearms or still too often leaves much to be desired and it thus also needs to be periodically, regularly reviewed too in reality. The mere fact that a member of the Police Force is allowed to do his or her duties, to issue an ticket, to carry our an arrest, the use a firearm, should always still carry with it the presumption that he is sufficiently responsible to exercise proper discretion as to when he or she can resort to it. The potential for danger of the abuse of an individuals human and legal rights, in order to falsely even promote oneself up the ranks, seems not only to be from those junior police ranks, persons to whom authority, even firearms have been thoughtlessly issued as well as to the other senior officers who in reality are no longer capable of doing their duties effectively. The fact that there may be some misperception by the police now too that the mere application of any "letter of the law" even over the "spirit of the law" is valid by them is disturbing. It is not the application of the letter of the law per se that counts but also the related circumstances in which it has also been applied which determine whether or not the ticket, fine, arrest, incarcerations is lawful. The law itself firstly is built on recognizing the primacy of all person's observed right to their Human or Legal Rights and the Law thus always also speaks to the nature of those rights being physically observed by even the law enforcement officers. While a police person may think he or she may have the lawful authority to apprehend an individual, to maintain law and order this still does not translate into a right to abuse any of their Human and Legal rights. All persons are to also still be treated as innocent unless it is proven by the courts otherwise. All persons do thus have the right to resist unlawful apprehension for any felony. In doing their Jobs the police ought to be adequately guided even from their training, from their superiors by the cardinal doctrine that any acts, force must be the minimum necessary to achieve the objective, and respecting the existing rights of all of the persons now too. Sadly that is not always the case still. The Police always need to understand, respect the observance of all human rights, or it will eventually become necessary to review their own suitability for their continuation now to be a police officer. " Osgoode Hall law professor Dianne Martin suggested Toronto's police services board might want to consider how much of the police budget is used to pay for officers attending police funerals here and in other cities. Councillor Pam McConnell, vice-chair of the police board, also said the weight of tradition associated with such funerals is considerable. "I think that when any officer dies in the line of duty, it is a tragedy" not only for the officer's family and the force, but for the public, she said ." Do the police in Canada now feel the same way when they kill a citizen -sadly clearly not and that is unacceptable still. While it is agreed that no person shall be deprived of his or her Human rights, the right of presumed innocence as well, intentionally or unintentional save in execution of a sentence of a court in respect of an offense under the Laws of which he has been convicted including (a) for the defense of any person from violence or for the defense of property; (b) in order to effect a lawful arrest or to prevent the escape of a person lawfully detained; (c) for the purpose of suppressing a riot, insurrection or mutiny; or (d) In order to prevent the commission by that person of a criminal offense... There must be apparent necessity for any of the killing too; for if the officer were to kill after the resistance had ceased ...or if there were no reasonable necessity for the violence used on the part of the officer, the killing must be and would be manslaughter at the least. The members of the Police Force cannot lawfully use deadly force in the course of arresting felons or suspected felons who have not resisted or have surrendered, or even on those who have resisted but were without posing any danger of physical harm to the arrestor. One must also distinguish between mere resistance and resistance which poses the danger of physical harm. If the resistance does not pose any danger of physical harm, there can be no constructive or implied malice under the felony-murder rule (i.e. an intent to kill or cause serious bodily harm), and the use of even a deadly force is unjustifiable. Immediate valid steps need always to be taken to insure we always do have fully competent police personnel and not a fictional intent or a false assumption that the police are doing their duties. for this is not at all adequate and the steps should always should include * To establish, maintain adequately a dedicated or distinctly identifiable Independent Police review board at all times * To provide these boards with independent investigative resources. * To ensure greater independence in the arrangements for investigating complaints against any of the police. * To make it obligatory to hold an adequate inquest in all cases where police officers were involved in not only a person's death but also in any of their Human and legal rights abuse All this now being done noting firstly the key issue is one of political will but also a legal and moral necessity in all parts of Canada now too. My own personal witness is that this has not always been the case even in major cities and provinces too not even in the last 25 years too. The main issue again this week for me seems to be insuring that we have both adequate federal and provincial solicitor generals insuring that we have an honest, just, fair Police force in Canada, the RCMP included. If only one cop was bad I would still rightfully complain about it and I would still rightfully do something good about it, and how much more now that there are too many bad cops still. (Mat 18:12 KJV) How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. (Mat 18:15 KJV) Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. Any major excuse such as frost, wars, and the price of oil and gas, vegetables, meats shoots up drastically.. but you can have a significant price deduction next by the suppliers and the selling price is generally not directly reflected, passed on to the consumers. The latest best example of this is the price of beef related to the mad Cow crisis in Canada.. so what we still have a mostly pretentious, inadequate, useless, impotent federal consumer affairs minister in Ottawa, Canada too? Since the tax payer's money todate did not benefit the Alberta ranchers DIRECTLY NOW the $800 million in federal and provincial funding handed out to ranchers instead it simply "padded the bottom line of packing houses" then do rightfully demand now all of the tax payers money be returned, all of it. " Now I find it also despicable still and fully so that the RCMP do have this bad practise of giving a ticket to persons going to the airport with a rental car who are too obvious leaving town by plane knowing that the same person will likley not return to contest the ticket.. and this has occurred to me 3 times in Canada, one time to many too. I have also never taken any of my past too many personal abuses of me by the too many bad cops even in Canada now lightly as well, I have detailed it, objected to it even in the courts and to the police enforcement boards, to the premier, news media, MLA, aldermen as well, etc... I still expect rightfully full and proper action on it all too. I still am serious about it now too. Speeding tickets as a revenue generator is immoral too.. go after the people who cause the real accidents as well.. drug users, poor drivers, drunks.. bad cops.

Public exposure and prosecution of the major culprits, not of the citizens, the whistle blowers works best still.. Too many politicians, civil and public servants in Canada still do think cause they work for the government they can order us around and that only they can use the free speech right too. I have often wondered why many other citizens do not take the time, effort to write about their concerns to their elected representatives.. because it really takes plenty of time and effort and it is not merely straightforward.. you have to follow up on the generally poor lack of acknowledgment, acts, replies as well.. it rather becomes almost a part time job.. that the opposition parties even the News media are not always doing effectively now as well.. expressing our personal concerns as citizens, What started this writing of mine was that the absurdity that the governments waste the tax money and the punish rather the innocent poor people for it too.. the new B.C. human resources Stan Minister Hagen now has WANTED TO CUT SOME PERSONS OFF THE WELFARE. There are plenty of places to try to save money but starting with the expense of the poor people is not one way, The Civil and public servants can back on their first class travel, traveling abroad, free lunches for themselves and their friends their long breaks while they do their own business at the tax payer's expenses as well for a start, Abuse the poor people and you will see God cause your finances to dry up in other areas. It has often happened in Alberta and in Ontario now as well who were also known for their false mistreatment, despising of the poor persons Now what about in reality a better and a more detailed account where every tax dollar is now being sent too, how it is being used at the Federal, provincial and municipal levels at all times NOW too.. and what about our elected representatives giving me a really better reply to my letters of concerns to them as well now.. And who is really being now fooled by any of it.. not me for a start. Welfare itself is a provincial jurisdiction, but like many other cuts being made by local municipalities and Ottawa, municipal governments also do seem have to deal with the reality, negative consequences of the past and present indifference, abuse and mismanagement of money by the politicians, civil and public servants even at all of the levels of the federal, municipal, provincial governments. If I was the Human Resources Minister of a province the first three things I would do would be to- a: Verify the exact type of training programs being provided, offered to all, note to all social welfare recipients, also insuring that even language programs are mandatory provided freely for all those persons who still cannot properly speak, read, write as well and including both French and English languages. (Unbelievable that even in Quebec French language programs are not provided to all welfare recipients, not just to the refugees, new immigrants) b: The second thing I would do is I would certainly check and recheck the actual personal educational qualifications of every one of the social workers and all of the superiors as well. I have not yet in my whole life met one really qualified career training competent social worker, most were incompetent friends hired of the street to the rather political positions it seems. Being a competent social worker takes also compassion, aptitudes, and developed skills, education, training knowledge as well. What actual real qualifications do all of the persons who do work in social aid now have? c: The third thing I would do was I would follow the budget money, I would really find out exactly how much was designated and where all of the budget money goes. To see how much of it actually, directly goes to help the social welfare recipients. You see I too have learned long time ago that even city hall itself, and many others do similar things, they do charge items to the budget, that do not belong there, they even do transfer the budget money elsewhere. Yes at city hall as well. And that should be a criminal act prosecuted by law. I mean that as well rightfully. Now has the Human Minister done all of this himself now? Waiting for a report from someone else is sure proof he has not. There are also plenty of places to try to save money but starting to save tax payer's money at the expense of the poor people and their welfare programs is not the best way to do this, not the way to do it! The government firstly should though clearly manage better it's civil and public servants..and the capital expenditures. Why? Well I know from personal experiences that it is also the services to the poor and needy persons, those who can afford it the least, that are wrongfully cut to make up for the past budget mismanagement by Ministers, managers of the civil and public servants too. We all need to care about the unemployed. It also seems even the governments and it's managers are still just for sale ... and it doesn't care who they are involved with or what they are up to or what it looks like as long as they are rewarding their friends, thus they tend not too really look after all of the good ordinary citizens welfare.. this is still never acceptable. The fish stinks from the head but many cut the tail of first.. That seems how the governments wrongfully do respond to money and the poor people too now. The covetous middle class persons who also do want to be rich and despise the poor persons often suddenly too themselves walk in the footsteps of the poor and needy persons next. I have seen it happen more than once too. One more serious reason they too need to be more considerate of helping the poor persons. They may be helping themselves next. " Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.(Galatians 2:10 KJV) " It should be very clear to the honest New Testament Bible scholars that the Church of the New Testament was seriously concerned about the poor persons in their midst and helped them, and so should we all as well today. And many persons wrongfully do think that some other persons do get rich living on social aid now too? Or do the majority of people still get rich by committing tax evasions and stealing and these are the people the government should first go after, all of the too many tax evaders. All of them now. How many people have been arrested for tax evasions last year? Cutting back on the Corporate welfare also is what the government still does also needs to deal with and not firstly the Social welfare. Canada's Prime Minister Paul Martin's shipping company got what 165 million in welfare from the tax payers? and we do not have money for the poor people? or for proper medical care, or for proper Justice, police, consumer protection too? It never surprises me anymore when the superiors, Managers even at City hall as well can also still find money for new furniture, more staff, larger personal expense accounts but not the money to help the ordinary, poor people during the good and bad times now too. Making all of the poor people, social welfare recipients, those who can afford it the least, to pay for the sins of others is an immoral and criminal act still. Furthermore here are thee, 3 things I know for sure in Canada the last 35 years - It is not the poor people who have mismanaged the majority of the tax payer's money... but they do pay for it the most, those who can afford it the least - if the public and civil servants had better managed the tax payer's money there still would not have been likely more money for the poor people cause the rich people would still try to steal it for themselves. I have met even covetous, greedy middle class and rich persons now too. Thirdly if all persons paid their taxes, and did not commit tax evasions, an ongoing major unacceptable sin that still do needs to be prosecuted there would be plenty of money for the poor people assuming it could get to them without being stolen, intercepted again. It costs 8,000 dollars per year to support a high school student, and $110,000 to keep a person in jail for one year.. costs for the jail does not include the police, court costs too. It costs $9,000 per year to support a welfare recipient, and the high costs of civil and public servants are not included here. "Rules for cashing cheques changed Sunday, February 01, 2004 Did you know that you can cash your Government of Canada cheque for free at any bank branch that has teller service in Canada? A government cheque is any cheque written to you on behalf of the federal government and includes such cheques as the GST credit, social assistance, income tax rebate, old age security, employment insurance and child tax benefit. New laws came into effect on September 30, 2003 that require banks to cash your cheque: - even if you aren't a customer of the bank; and it is free of charge THE BANK CAN REFUSE TO CASH YOUR CHEQUE IF: - you don't have proper identification; the bank has reason to believe the cheque is counterfeit or is connected with a crime; the cheque has been altered. If the bank refuses to cash your cheque it has to tell you in writing that it won't cash your cheque. It also has to give you information on how to contact the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada (FCAC). If you have had problems cashing a federal government cheque, or for more information, call FCAC toll-free: 1-866-461-3222 or visit its Web site: www.fcac-acfc.gc.ca" Social welfare recipient had problems cashing cheques because some of the Banks like Royal Bank, Bank of Montreal had refused to open a bank account for them and thus would not cash their cheques. While this move is better late that never I find it hard to comprehend now why it took ten years to do this, I had written about this same issue, problem to the federal cabinet ministers even about ten years ago In the last week unexpectedly as well an elected Member of the legislative of the BC government has been writing to me even claiming that he is a Christian, stating that he is praying for me, stating that he does not consider me a Christian as well. Well I have said that to me one of the first, basic primary evidence of a true Christian in the New Testament was how a person is practically considerate of the poor persons in their midst. The New Testament clearly shows that the true, good believers help their fellow poor believers and the false ones did not and yes this is also unlike many evangelical churches and their pastors today who are rather helping mainly themselves. In my local evangelical church the pastor is also now wrongfully being paid too an astronomical price for his poor services, his poor neglect of the poor people too, and I rightfully also do not agree with this. and say so as well. Jesus himself and the Apostles did not have a fixed salary nor a high paying one >I'll pray for you.. with the fervent hope that you will come to recognize that a true Christian wouldn't make such ridiculously prejudicial statements. he needs to also read, apply these verses (Gal 2:10 KJV) Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do. (Isa 10:1 KJV) Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness which they have prescribed; 2 To turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take away the right from the poor of my people, that widows may be their prey, and that they may rob the fatherless! 3 And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in the desolation which shall come from far? to whom will ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory? 4 Without me they shall bow down under the prisoners, and they shall fall under the slain. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still. (Mat 7:3 KJV) And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. Here is what I find firstly really ironical, hypocritical, the person who condemns me for now judging others is himself judging me, implying that I am not a true Christian too, but they are not practicing what they preach to me even .. dual standard. But thanks though for their prayers for me, they are much appreciated. Yes some of poor people are as corrupt as some of the rich. But a ex Minister of the federal government, who wanted to be a Prime Minister of Canada, from a very poor province, spending millions to buy a home in Toronto to me was, is just as inappropriate as the Pastor who owned a home worth hundreds of thousand of dollars in the Calgary NW estate area.

I think tyee might want to put a character limit on this input field for comments.... Might help distill points from incoherent rants. wow..

You are absolutely right on the character limit. If you can not express yourself clearly in a few short paragraphs you probably dont have anything worthwhile to say. Take a few minutes to collect your thoughts before starting to type.

I diaagree. Once you begin to limit points of view (othere than the obscene and hatefilled) you limit debate. MADD is likely one of many poor people who is sick to death of the open season on poor people in Canwest media, especially the the Slobince and bctv. Quite recently, the province's full pageheadline was about a drug dealer that supposedly owned 3 houses while on welfare, although whether or not he was continously on welfare was poorly documented, and, in any case has very little to do, with the disabled, single mothers and those temporarily in need of assistance, the majority of those on assistance. The ndp, who I support, were very much at fault in this regard in the nineties, allowing local tv media, especially to portray all welfare as drug addicts, as they shot scene after scene of so-called welfare wednesday mardi gras in the back alleys of the downtown eastside. The ndp then reacted, letting the media play them like a violin, by attacking welfare recipients, and thereby greatly encouraging the belief of the poor and the disenfranchised that all governments are the same. These same people and the young helped ensure the cope landslide in the vancouver civic election and could be instrumental in defeating gordon scumbag in may 2005. Madd is probably a disenfranchised poor person overwhelmed at the opportunity to finally get his voice heard. And he is absolutely right: the poor are always the first to be punished, the last to get redress and fairness, and a favorite scapegoat of both the media and the middle class. If the poor have no rights neither does the middle class, except the right to spend all their money on lawyers. You should be more charitable to posters like MADD, the middle class needs the poor much more than it thinks.

Right on Swift. I've read many a pseudo intellectual drone on and on in university teamspeak.Its refreshing to read some real humans in real shit.

I'm with lewis on this one. When people feel most passionate about something is when they will tend to rant. I agree they're sometimes hard to read, but you can't beat them for true honest heartfelt sincerity.

This kind of forum must be about debate, and debate requires the kind of expression each debater uses to be the one he or she chooses. For years there's been noplace for people to engage in this kind of exchange, and now that there is, I begin to have some hope again for participatory democracy.

Obviously, don't neglect to collect your thoughts and distill them, and express yourself coherently and all that, but don't take away the possibility of just jumping up on that soapbox and letting fly with a good old fashioned rant if the spirit moves you. Maybe nobody will read it all, but then again...

A Patients Bill of Rights sounds good doesn,t it? Has a nice motherhood tone to it.Wasn't this idea part of B.C.N.U.,s bargaining platform in their last contract negotiations? Clever thinking ...toss this out as a freebie to make the govt look good and reap the rewards of improved working conditions for nurses if the govt bites.Good thing they didn't bite ! The sysytem is working s poorly that litigation from such a bill of rights would suck even more money from the system.The Canada Health Act should cover us sufficiently.It boils down to what theR.N.s were really saying.....fix the damn system...it has been sucked dry and the people working in it have been treated like shit. You can study it until hell freezes over but the fact of the mattter is that acute and long term care beds have been shut down all over the province.An aging and dispirited workforce cannot continue under the stress much longer.It's crunch time....now.If this continues there will be very few people willing to invest in an education and be willing to provide the heart and soul of whatit takes to be a professional caregiver.

"Transfusion-Alternative Health Care--Meeting Patient Needs and Rights" (RealPlayer video, 3 minutes 10 seconds, excluding loading time) at http://www.watchtower.org/library/vcnr/article_01.htm

we all need rights, and as far as I know WE DON'T HAVE ANY!!!

If the patients are waiting for months and years for surgery, then they don't have any rights as patients. Ethically correct medicine in principle means that treatment should be given propmtly to make sure that that patient's disease or medical complaint will not become worse and will not affect the quality of his/her life. The BC Liberals don't want the Patient's Bill of Rights because they will be forced to maximize the capacity of our hospitals. Less beds means less nurses to pay benefits and wages =longer waiting lists= more money going to private surgical cand diagnostic clinics. The over-all objective is to destroy public health care system o the people of B.C. will be forced to buy their own health care insurance from private insurance carriers. According to Mr. Roy Romanow in his speech in Vancouver, about 30% of medical services in B.C are now privately funded, where the cost of services is tied with the market prices. The doctors who own the private surgical clinics are in a conflict of interest situation because they are also required to do surgical time in public hospitals. So human nature always prevails in this situation because he invested lots of money on his clinic which is considered private business.So his vested interest comes first before the public's interest. This is the reason why we should put an end to the Liberals hidden agenda once and for all. We should stop privitization of health care in this province. Health care reform should not mean implementing market-based health care system. It should mean total expansion of the public health care by increasing the number of beds and nurses based on the number of patients &notletting the private surgical clinics take over.