Tough guys...

Third review in a row about movies with "tough guys" in lead.
...so boring.

Right, Patrick...

...the Jews in Nazi-occupied Europe did indeed have the "mindset" that they were being exterminated. Why couldn't they, like, get over it?

Steve

My point was really to begin to get at the mentality of the victim, to get us to appreciate that those we are encouraged to simply hate (and not understand) believe themselves to be righteously striking back against intolerable oppression. I was trying to go non-Hollywood.

In my opinion, propagating just this sort of understanding may be useful to get people who would (rightly) stop Israel from attacking the defenseless, to do so without positioning militant jews so that they seem worthy of our hate, of our punishment, to do so without further encouraging them to see themselves as all alone 'midst hostile territory.

Steve's very regrettable statement.

Steve Burgess's statement:
" ..the Jews in Nazi-occupied Europe did indeed have the "mindset" that they were being exterminated. Why couldn't they, like, get over it?"
is so shocking.
This is 'blaming the victims' on a mass scale.
It is also racist.

Hopefully this will be the last we will hear of Steve Burgess in "The Tyee".

Southdeltawalker: Burgess is being sarcastic

...though sarcasm doesn't always announce itself perfectly clearly in comment forums where tone of voice can't be assessed. However, I know for a fact Burgess holds the opposite belief, and was being ironic.

Thanks David

I appreciate your quick response. However as I've designed and managed anti racism programs I can tell you that "sarcasm" like Steve's does find an audience... kind of like "rape jokes".

It all contributes to a "culture" where racism and sexism finds those who perpetuate the hate.

Southdeltawalker

I don't see any room for rape jokes. On the other hand, I believe Steve was ridiculing the 'blame the victim' message he thought he was hearing. A rape joke is different from that, isn't it? It is an attempt to make light of someone's victimization, -- not ridicule those who would make light of someone's victimization.

What I'm sure we can both agree on is that irony and sarcasm doesn't always come through in typed comments. Intention can be misconstrued.

Knowing Steve as I do, I still firmly believe Steve was trying to shut down any attempt, even someone's unconscious seeming attempt to, as you put it, 'perpetuate the hate.'

Thanks for the exchange.

I blame Dave Beers.

All my offensive statements and hypothetical rape jokes are down to Dave, since he provides the forum for my vileness.

Plus he has failed to install the latest version of "Like, Really (tm)" software, which places sarcastic little emoticons on either side of perceived sarcastic statements.

I hope this is the last we'll see of Steve Burgess in The Tyee. (Did you catch that?)

Non-Hollywood

Guys, if we're going to go off-Hollywood and explore new horizons and all, we're going to have to work against the current strong inclination to shut-down anything which varies strangely from approved formula--especially in such prescribed fashions. We need to find ourselves more irritatingly dissatisfied with the rush we (are allowed to, encouraged to) get from demonstrating ourselves good boys and girls--there are better pleasures we can get from conversations.

I'm also beginning to wonder if exploring masochism is off limits these days, for exploring this mental state could readily be argued as an activity which works to blame the victim.

Israelis, the new, anti semetic Barbarians

Yes I think the world is tired of these endless movies about the Jewish problems. They have to take a lesson from Mandella and start on their path of healing or forever be lost in mean, bitter, self destroying hate and vengeance. Look at what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. Are they the new Nazis? They are at least the new anti-semetic Barbarians (yes Palestinians are semetic peoples). They think that they can leave illegal cluster bombs in Lebanon, use illegal phosphorus tip bombs in Gaza and slaugher, helpless Palestinians caught in a fish bowl of that concentration camp called Gaza that the Isralis have forced fellow semetic peoples to attempt living in - this is anti semetic (yes Palestinians are semites!), barbarian and heartless. I have little pity for the Israelis after their destuction of Lebanon and now Gaza. I will not aid or buy or go see anything to do with Israel - they are the new Barabarians. God help them.