During my most heady and hedonistic years of absurdly high testosterone levels, of course, I, along with most of my delinquent peers, moved to the "beat of procreation" that is the really "inner" essential of what "was" rock 'n roll, of course. There were other, "deep message" elements, to be sure, especially in the likes of the young Bob Dylan, but the "fucking" beat was the essential tie that bound. Which is probably as it should be, and as "nature" intended, especially if you are young, a potential heterosexual breeder, (as opposed to sexually conflicted or confused, lodging your seed into hostile environments for reproduction) and in the prime of your preoccupation with the needs and pleasures of the flesh. Which I certainly was. Though I was actually a prewar baby, pushed kicking and screaming into the world towards the end of the '30s depression, just as Hitler was consolidating his power in Germany, and eyeing "Lebensraum" in the rest of Europe and the world. But even early in my life and during the great rock and roll years, but pushed to the sidelines, I always had an inexplicable, out of character for my working class roots, fondness for "art music", or what is variously called, reflecting its different periods, classical, Baroque, romantic, or even "serious" music. As the rough edges of my character have softened over the years since however, and with the gradual decline of those earlier "ridiculously high" testosterone levels, such as all men go through, I find that this is the music I have in parallel returned to more and more. Some of the "old" rock music still shines of course, such as the driving sensuality of Elvis, and the deep "end of civilization as we know it" themes of Dylan, whom I still consider the best of that era-, but most of it sounds more like escapist, mindless trivia today-, to me: The Mommas and Poppas, and though she was a talented sctress in my view, the bubble-headed female musical drivel of such as Cher, as immediate off the top of my head examples. And nearly all the so-called rock 'n roll greats, sooner or later, succumbed to the steady drip, drip seduction and corruption of the capitalist marketplace, that is the "music biz." It was a great and fun music for its time, especially to get high with and fuck to, but certainly the great bulk of it will not stand up well over the next one hundred years, I suspect, with a few exceptions-, at least not nearly so well as did the great "art" or "classical" music of the much earlier time. There is a certain "pretentiousness" to some of this "art" music, of course, as one would expect coming from its "aristocratic" ruling class associations, though it was typically drawn or transposed from the great well of European peasant or folk music actually. "Most" rock, however, again in my view, falls much more into the even lesser realm of hype, its own kind of bad boy and girl pretentiousness, light trivia, and cultural "fluff", so I think today. But then, how much of that is just the changed perspective of the years and the "chemistry" changes associated with same, or an actual and accurate assessment of the music of my youth, I am a little uncertain.

My apology for the lack of paragraphing above, but I have been writing on U.S. sites, where all of them format automatically.

Here it is, if you'd prefer it so formatted into paragraphs. This doesn't seem a popular thread in any case, so it's not as if I am stealing anybody's space.

During my most heady and hedonistic years of absurdly high testosterone levels, of course, I, along with most of my delinquent peers, moved to the "beat of procreation" that is the really "inner" essential of what "was" rock 'n roll, of course. There were other, "deep message" elements, to be sure, especially in the likes of the young Bob Dylan, but the "fucking" beat was the essential tie that bound.

Which is probably as it should be, and as "nature" intended, especially if you are young, a potential heterosexual breeder, (as opposed to sexually conflicted or confused, lodging your seed into hostile environments for reproduction) and in the prime of your preoccupation with the needs and pleasures of the flesh. Which I certainly was. Though I was actually a prewar baby, pushed kicking and screaming into the world towards the end of the '30s depression, just as Hitler was consolidating his power in Germany, and eyeing "Lebensraum" in the rest of Europe and the world.

But even early in my life and during the great rock and roll years, but pushed to the sidelines, I always had an inexplicable, out of character for my working class roots, fondness for "art music", or what is variously called, reflecting its different periods, classical, Baroque, romantic, or even "serious" music. As the rough edges of my character have softened over the years since however, and with the gradual decline of those earlier "ridiculously high" testosterone levels, such as all men go through, I find that this is the music I have in parallel returned to more and more.

Some of the "old" rock music still shines of course, such as the driving sensuality of Elvis, and the deep "end of civilization as we know it" themes of Dylan, whom I still consider the best of that era-, but most of it sounds more like escapist, mindless trivia today-, to me: The Mommas and Poppas, and though she was a talented sctress in my view, the bubble-headed female musical drivel of such as Cher, as immediate off the top of my head examples. And nearly all the so-called rock 'n roll greats, sooner or later, succumbed to the steady drip, drip seduction and corruption of the capitalist marketplace, that is the "music biz."

It was a great and fun music for its time, especially to get high with and fuck to, but certainly the great bulk of it will not stand up well over the next one hundred years, I suspect, with a few exceptions-, at least not nearly so well as did the great "art" or "classical" music of the much earlier time. There is a certain "pretentiousness" to some of this "art" music, of course, as one would expect coming from its "aristocratic" ruling class associations, though it was typically drawn or transposed from the great well of European peasant or folk music actually. "Most" rock, however, again in my view, falls much more into the even lesser realm of hype, its own kind of bad boy and girl pretentiousness, light trivia, and cultural "fluff", so I think today.

But then, how much of that is just the changed perspective of the years and the "chemistry" changes associated with same, or an actual and accurate assessment of the music of my youth, I am a little uncertain.

Hey Coyote...an interesting older guy's take on the music we all moved to. I think "Blood on the Tracks" was Bob's tribute to the "Beat Generation" that preceded the "Rock & Roll" generation. "Simple Twist of Fate" evokes visions of Jack Kerouac wandering along the Pawtucket canal of olde industrial Lowell, mass. & the "Idiot Wind" could well be about the many road trips of Neal C. & Jack. The next album brought us the protest anger of "Hurricane" Carter and the sad tragedy of Joey Gallo. I, myself, am partial to Bruce Springsteen as someone who picked up the mantle of half-arse rock poet laurete to the masses and put my feelings about that in a responce to Brain Fawcett's introspective piece on John Lennon. As for "Coyote"...that was a fine Joni Michell song if I remember right. Ya Trickster Ya.

Enjoyed your comments, Andy. I didn't mention him, but Bruce Springsteen was of course right up there alongside Dylan, in my view as well. And the softer, subtler complexity of Joni's lyrical twists grew on me, and I actually enjoy more today than I did then. There were others, of course, whom I would certainly not want to belittle. Though Dylan, still stands separate and apart in my sensitivities, All Along The Watchtower, as well as the material you indicate.

Some of it will wear well for a long time, no doubt. Much of it though will fall by the historical wayside, which is probably what happens to most "cultural products" eventually, pop or otherwise. Regards.

Brian Wilson, a rock 'n roller? And here I thought all these years the Beach Boys were the epitome of middle-class teenaged Californians in love with muscle cars, blondes, surfing and their ability to ignore the real shit happening around them. As they were flitting around trying to draw wide-eyed teeny-boppers into their angst-filled confusion, a revolution was taking place across the U.S. that hardly got a musical note dedicated to it. The only revolution these guys joined was the push to a middle-class consumer culture as far removed from rock 'n roll as you could get. Bob Dylan was a great balladeer as was Joni Michell. Both sang the odd rock 'n roller penned by others before them, but it is still a big step to suggest they represent Rock 'n Roll. Popular music? Yes, but it wasn't Rock 'n Roll. Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry did Rock 'n Roll. The Stones continue as the only great Rock 'n Roll band that learned from the originals and continue to stay true to the form. Bruce Springstein runs true to that form as well as did groups like the Stray Cats who made a brief appearance in the '80s. If you want to refer to popular 20th century music as rock, that's ok with me momma, but please don't call it Rock 'n Roll. I fear soon we'll be getting a retrospective on other ``great'' Rock 'n Rollers like Pat Boone, the Partridge Family and then someone will suggest that Johnny Horton's North to Alaska, which got much airtime on rock stations was a Rock 'n Roll classic. If it doesn't rock 'n roll it ain't Rock 'n Roll.

I have to agree with Allan about the Beach Boys/Brian Wilson. 'Pet Sounds" being named one of those quintessential recordings of rock n roll history has baffled me endlessly. Over produced, self-indulgent, whining, faux-trippy tripe if you ask me. Rock n roll isn't a life of 9-5, day hours with an hour break and 15 minutes of fame, errr, I mean a break. The nocturnal hours, the artist temperment, the expectations, the juggling of egos and balancing your 'other life', possibly including friends, loved ones and likely a day job to boot can invariably lead to excess and/or the need for a crutch of escapism. Excuse me if it sounds preachy, but it seems fairly obvious to me. It has been witnessed, recounted, documented and spread over the world shamelessly for decades. 'Cocksucker Blues' is only one example, and not so very shocking in my eyes, of what a rock n roll lifestyle can represent. But nothing is absolute and there's many other facets to it that don't have such titillating media appeal.

Why are these Tyee posts so wordy? Three chords, 12 bars, Rockaday Johnny singin' Tell your ma, tell your pa, our love's a-gonna grow, oo-wah oo-wah ... Say no more.

Because. Clear enough?

i really enjoy rock 'n' roll music and i find your website very interesting and intrigueing! i hope to hear more from you some time, from Mary