The Hook

Harper's dumb move

The threat to cut off the gov't funding for Parties will be remembered as one of the great political blunders in Canadian politics.

As calculating as Harper is held to be, it shows he is as capable of miscalculation as anyone else.

That threat provided the impetus to make the other Parties consider a coalition, and it is of no consequence now that he has withdrawn it, for the damage has been done, since they are now seriously considering the previously unthinkable.

Don't have a clue

I have read here a lot of speculative and down right abusive comments regarding Mr Harper. It's easy to call people names from a distance. To judge someone's thoughts and feelings . It's also very wrong and shameful behavior for grown adults. How many of you have met Mr Harper . How many have seen him with his wife and kids who he loves just as you do your family . He's just a man trying to do a job nothing more or less. To spread hatred toward and individual based on rhetoric and slander is just not acceptable behavior in a civilized society . Please everyone consider walking in the shoes of those you choose to hurt with your words and come up with ides and solutions rather than fanning the flames of hatred.

Regardless of the issue,

Regardless of the issue, whether it is campaign financing or any other self-serving Tory initiative, it is about time Harper is put in his place. And it is about time that the majority of those of us Canadians who voted (against conservative rule)in the past two elections can now be vindicated.

Stephen Harper thought he could carry on playing the same game as he had been during the two years leading up to this past election. Put forth a series of idelogically-tainted and highly politicized bills and policy initiatives that could only be defeated by virtue of a confidence vote. The Liberals, who were always the wild card (with no stomach to force Canadians with an election and strained finances) were left with no other option than to sit on their hands and allow whatever Harper wished to inflict on the country.

Well, whether or not the opposition actually follows through with the threat of forming a coalition government in place of Tory rule, the fact that they can play this card at all has indeed humbled Mr. Harper.

Had he lived up to his promise to be more conciliatory in working with the opposition parties in order to bring about good and effective government, Mr. Harper would not be in the pickle he now is in. He has only himself to blame. As for the majority of Canadians, there is now cause for optimism regarding federal politics.

Prime Minister Layton and Proportional Representation

ME2, the impetus was weeks ago as backroom talks were happening by the second week of the election campaign.

But I agree that this was a massive blunder rooted in his hatred of the Liberal party.

But more on that at Prime Minister Layton and Proportional Representation.

PoliticsReSpun.org.

Defence

Art Eggleton, I guess.
After all, he sent us in to the quagmire.

Energy, Mines & Resources:
Mark Holland. He on the Alberta Oil Sands, "I think what you are going to see is we're [the Liberals] going to say you cannot exploit that resource...".
Help broaden the love of the coalition in Alberta.

Intergovernmental Affairs:
Justin Trudeau.
Should go down well in Québec and Alberta.

Foreign Affairs:
Ujjal Dosanjh, someone who understands that current dangerous region.

Finance:
Marc Garneau. Going to need a space cadet there!

More Party Subsidies, we must presume

Since this tempest is about taxpayers being obliged to finance political parties, rather than relying on individual donations, we can now expect that this will be extended to other elections and parties. Such as provincial parties and, why not, municipal ones too. Taxpayers will have to pay for all of them.

I wonder how those that chose to not vote feel about this.

It's about considerably more than that

Perhaps you missed Jeff Simpson - someone you normally never hesitate to quote approvingly.

Perhaps others would care to read what the Sage of Front Street has to say about Mr Harper and his 'understanding' of Canada and its constitutional arrangements.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081128.wcosimp29/BNStory/politics/home

I especially liked this:

This week, he created a completely unnecessary crisis that now threatens his government's very survival. And they call Mr. Harper a great strategist and superior tactician?
Thursday's economic statement was an economic lame duck and a political boner. It revealed, among other things, the kind of Conservative Party that all but its core supporters suspected would eventually be outed: a group of ideologues, led by a Prime Minister who discarded his campaign sweater to reveal an economist with a tin heart and a politician who looks everywhere for political advantage.
Instead of trying to grow Conservative support, he appealed only to his party's core. Instead of acting in a statesmanlike fashion at a time of crisis, he opted to play politics, proposing to cancel public subsidies for parties, a move that would disproportionately benefit his.
Instead of reaching out, as leader of a minority government and as president-elect Barack Obama is doing by talking to moderate Republicans, he smacked his opponents in the chops. Instead of heeding the advice of economists everywhere that the economy needs stimulus, he got his Minister of Finance to present a budget that offered cutbacks and tiny surpluses that absolutely no one believes will be realized.

In fact, though Mr Simpson and I seldom see eye to eye, I may actually take the time and send him a short note of congratulations.
(bolding is mine)

I think Pee Wee is going to have to back off - the old Tories, what few of them are left, may yet dump him for this boneheaded bs.

Interesting to keep hearing

Interesting to keep hearing these comments on "individual donations" to Parties.

The Socred/Reform/CRAPP/Alliance/Conservatives are paid and owned by huge donations from, many of them, multinational corporations various governments have permitted to buy up Canada and receive "national treatment", the minute they set their crooked feet into the country, under NAFTA and WTO rules.

Here in BC the same gang rules, falsely operating the BC Liberal tag, again bought for them by the corporations who own them lock stock and barrel.

Look at the numbers how much these agents are paid by their owners to lead the province and the country into colonization under a corporate dictatorship, and then the strings of directorships they're awarded with, like Mulroney, for having sold out.

Like the "Proto Parliament of the North American Competiveness Council" now governing and leading the three NAFTA countries into a depression, forcing people to beg for their dictatorship.

As their predecessors have done in Germany in 1933.

Ed Deak.

Taxpayer's obligations

Really realisticman, I'm surprised at you.

Has somebody been forcing you to vote Liberal or NDP?

Because if that isn't the case your $1.95 is going to make its way, inexorably, into the coffers of the party of your choice.

This is a per vote allocation. If you don't like the concept, I have a perfect solution for you: Stay home on election day.

Then take the $1.95 off to your local Starbucks, with a few more coins you can pick up a nice Latte and enjoy it - firm in the knowledge that no political party has had any 'subsidy' from you.

The folks who don't vote will simply get whatever government they deserve....or, in the case of BC - they'll likely get the bought and paid for variety exactly like the one they have now.

The problem isn't the per vote contribution - it's the other ones and the tax credits that go with them.

Had Pee Wee proposed a system that got entirely away from free enterprise big business and wealthy folks welfare type political financing he wouldn't be scrambling to put Humpty Dumpty back together today.

'Prime Minister Layton and

'Prime Minister Layton and Proportional Representation'.
good to dream, i guess, but these clowns will never pull this off. in fact i doubt if they'll agree on who pays the cab fare to government house. as if michaelle jean will go down in history as the gg who allowed layton or davies anywhere near cabinet.

Ed Deak your in Left field

So Ed where are these huge corporate donations to political you speak of ?
Do you any real evidence of this or are just foaming at the mouth. Just to reiterate . Chretian brought in Legislation in 2002 restricting Corporate and Union donations to 5K. Individual donations were restricted as well. This was a time bomb to screw Paul Martin. The per capita funding was brought about to make up for the shortfall principally in the Liberal party who's donations dropped to roughly 1/4 of what they were as Bay Street Big Business could no longer fund the liberals . The NDP lost big because unions were shut out, The big corporations funded the Liberals and Unions the NDP. Con were not affected much as their funding is grass roots. Get your facts straight.. The funding records are public domain.

for a realistic Energy policy ...

... Peter Lougheed representing the majority in Alberta

http://www.albertaoilmagazine.com/?p=365&year=

Tory farm teams

The Cdn Taxpayer's Federation, the National Citizens Coalition, the Fraser Institute etc exist so that corporations have their own political vehicles, pushing their right-wing ideology 365 days a year with none of the worries that would come if they instead tried to give their money directly to the Tories.

And I think its nice to suddenly see so many right-wing voices here doing the bidding of their employer and fanning out across talk radio and the web to spread the same disinformation as Harper's chief of staff commanded them.

realisticman and Atomicrayco

Funny that I don't see you guys or Harper demanding we get rid of the tax credit for making a donation to a political party. Why would that be?

Seems as though you guys think elections should be decided by a burger poll at the West Van Yacht Club.

Speaking of which, if Flaherty wants to save money how about he gets rid of business write-offs for entertainment such as Canucks tickets and company yachts?

Harper is receiving millions

Harper is receiving millions with the unpaid propaganda in the controlled media, university economics departments, blackmail by major corporations, as happened in Asia, plus the promise of corporate directorships to the leading characters, etc. etc.

How much is Mulroney making now ? About 10 or 15 times of a PM's salary ? What can Harper hope for? Or even Campbell? Perhaps not as much as he would have received with a majority selling off the country, but he would definitely not end up in the foodbank lines.

Nothing could be more ridiculous than the present Marx Bros. imitation CRAPP government.

I'm expecting the resignation of Flaherty any time now.

Harper made another big blunder, on top of the first one, by postponing the confidence vote, giving time to the opposition to organize, following hourly increasing public demands and pressure to form a coalition.

If a coalition is successful, the GG has no other chance but to kick Harper out. In which case his resignation becomes a 50/50 chance. What a beautiful dream. The CRAPP could finally get a good leader, even somebody like Stockwell Day ? Wow !!!!!

With the numbers behind him, Layton obviously has no chance for becoming PM, but he would, as some of the PQ, definitely get some kind of a cabinet post.
That's what coalitions are about.

My best hope would be to see Peter Julian in position to reveal and kill the presently ongoing, secret SPP and NAU
negotiations for the sale of the country.

But would even a coalition be brave enough to do this, after all, it was Martin who originally set Canada's ball rolling downhill with this fraudulent gimmick.

Ed Deak.

RE :Harper is receiving millions

Show me one bit of proof Ed.

Just a little

Just an unqualified rat Hey Ed,

Be constructive not destructive and come up with solid solutions rather then unfounded rhetoric

RE :Harper is receiving millions

Sorry Ed I meant unqualified rant not rat

speaking Frankly

good point about tax credits for political donations ; they should be - at the most - the same as charitable donations.

RE:realisticman and Atomicrayco

Frank there are no write off's for corporate yachts that has long since been eliminated. As for Canucks tickets the way they are playing those tickets are more of a liability.
I agree Harper made a foolish blunder in removing the per-capita funding to quickly. The Liberals admit they are in a funding crisis brought about by Chretian's legislation restricting corporate donations and internal bickering . Their historic dependence on Bay Street funding left them with little grass roots support. The weaning off the public trough should have been done over years to allow all parties to revamp their donation policies. As for removing the tax credit why would anyone do that it encourages people to participate in the electoral process. It allows individuals to contribute where they see fit and the credit is an incentive to becoming involved. The Bloc gets 84% of it's budget from the trough so it has a lot of work to do

RBC

The Royal Bank lists the Fraser Institute as one of its "charities". Either Michael Walker is one step from a bread line or the RBC is simply using tax breaks meant for real charities to funnel money into an organisation that exists to get right-wingers like Harper and Campbell elected.

But of course Flaherty thinks tax breaks for the Fraser Institute is a worthy cause (which it is, for him) so he won't be getting rid of that.

Atom... The lists of the

Atom... The lists of the open donations to parties are on the Net. under the Elections BC, or Canada headings and there are also a lot of comments and articles on the subject.
Just have to look for them.

The control of information has always been the strongest weapon in the hands of ruling classes, and I've lived under all of them, but the Net is the first time in history when ordinary people can exchange and get uncensored information, breaking this disgusting power of the "betters" I grew up under and with.

I was one of the thousands who was working to break down the MAI treaty, between the OECD countries, in 1997, and it was the first time in history, when an already negotiated treaty was killed by public pressure, when the French backed out, fearing a revolution. But it is back now, under the tables, as the EU governments are attempting to force the MAI inspired EU Constitution, setting up a continent wide corporate dictatorship on their peoples, without permitting them to vote on it.

As we now had the NAFTA and have the TILMA and the SPP being forced down our throats in true fascist fashion.

Which still don't come anywhere near of what is going on underground, among the international mafia of corporate VIPs .

The National Post, the Vancouver papers and all the media controlled by the Aspers are donating millions worth of PR to the CRAPP every day. So, where is the accounting of such donations ?

Ed Deak.

Talking points

You might care to look at the end of this article from yesterday's Globe:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081129.wtories_message1129/BNStory/politics/

It includes most of an email from Pee Wee's sidekick and chief of staff Guy Giorno: I see you got the email.

Having just checked The Toronto Star's comment board on the story that Flaherty has climed down off his ridiculous $1.95/vote hobby horse (it runs to 30 pages and has only been up since 4:30am this morning) it's pretty clear the faithful have been busy.

Funny thing though, by my rough counte I'd say the tide is running about 9:5 against Pee Wee and for a 'real' government.

Better watch your inbox for the next set of instructions...Interesting though to see that the word 'separatist' is showing up quite a lot. But not a single reference to Pee Wee's own courting of the Bloc.

"As for Canucks tickets the

"As for Canucks tickets the way they are playing those tickets are more of a liability."

There's a waiting list of 6,000 people for season's tickets. I'm fine with corporations buying seats, but none of it should be a write-off, it should come strictly out of their own pockets.

And donations to political parties should not be tax-deductible at all.

And arms of the Conservative Party should not be given charity status. People like Michael Walker can find a job instead.

Patrons of the Arts and Crafts

It's not wrong for businesses to spend money on the services and goods of artisans for private benefit - that's largely how the Renaissance was financed (in addition to the 'public' patronage in churches) - but the write-downs provide insufficient public benefit for the cost.

Business entertainment tax write-down is deplorable (and tediously boring) - it warps the market for restaurants and (mostly sports) entertainment leading to artificial price inflation.

[ suggestions: along the lines of a lease-lend system of these tax-payer supported art works (through public art galleries) ,,, or an explicit link with tax breaks ; ie …for every dollar tax claimed 50 cents to public art ... ]

Are all parties crazy? Coalition government idea is ridiculous

Are all the political parties in Ottawa crazy? Because the idea of a coalition government certainly is.

I won't make all the arguments here but visit my blog for that and comments pro and con.

http://billtieleman.blogspot.com/2008/11/mexican-standoff-in-ottawa-are-they-all.html

Bill Tieleman

RE: Talking points

Here we go again referring to PM Harper as "Pee Wee" is just immature , If you want to be taken seriously quit name calling and offer some solutions and be constructive. We are all looking for the same the a better Canada.

Bill T

Crises like this calls for a coming together of different parties just like in wartime.

The Cons are the only party that doesn't want to be part of a Coalition because cooperation is a word they have trouble even uttering as it might be mistaken for sympathy to communism.

RE:"As for Canucks tickets the

I totally agree there should be no entertainment write-off's at all.
The tax break for political contributions I could live without but just try and remove that and watch the fireworks

Flaherty's flatulant F.U.

If the Hon Minister of Finance was truly interested in leading by example, his Financial Update would have been presented before the election. He lied. Harper lied.

Pry the power from their cold deadbeat grasping fingers.

RE:Bill T

Frank why would the Con's join a coalition they won the election. That just makes no sense at all . No one voted for a coalition government as I recall, This still is somewhat a democracy in Canada but I believe it is better described as elected dictatorship. The whole system needs to change.
This is not wartime we have the best economy in the G8. There is a lot of fear mongering going on that has no substance.
It's time for a step back and a deep breath

How about toning it down

Frank,
OilbertaRedTory
I don't care which side of the debate uses inflamatory language they are all acting like children. It reminds me of watching the antics in the house during question period , Everyone should grow up and rise above petty name calling

Atom

Because they didn't win the election, what they were is the closest party to winning it.

They do not have a majority in either seats or popular vote.

Which means they have no mandate to force through legislation without some agreement from other parties.

Y'see, it's not just the right wing

That gets to try those kinds of tactics atomicrayon.

Being poked in the eye by a bully repeatedly and called all sorts of names by people who support programs that keep kids in poverty and old folks in hovels while Michael Walker sells the 'virtues' of private schools over publicly funded ones has a tendency to toughen one up a bit.

Pee Wee, our small pink slightly over-weight leader is discovering, to his peril, that you can only poke people so long. Eventually the folks who've turned the other cheek at what has happened to working people for the last 30 years while the wealthy have been clipping coupons and buying another SUV for their yearly trip to Mexico were bound to wake up.

Now he's going to try and ride the hurricane and I don't think Pee Wee has the beans.

Oilberta.. I have no

Oilberta..

I have no problem with businesses spending for personal benefits, but they shouldn't be accounted fraudulently as tax deductible business expenses.

The Fraser Inst. was part of about 100 of such PR businesses set up in the '70s, to promote continental takeover by corporations under the fraudulent "neoclassical market economic" theory, and registered as "non profit, charitable" organizations and "think tanks". Another fraud.

The Renaissance was financed mostly from the gold and goods stolen from other continents, also used by the nobility to suppress their own peoples, who lived in squalor, while their palaces and cathedrals were being built by starving people in rags.

My ancestors "owned" several villages, together with their peoples. One of the villages was "Alsodraskocz", now in Slovakia, under another name. It was one of three given to one of my forefathers by the Empress Maria Theresia for something he had done in one of her wars against the Prussians.

Just for the record.

I have no idea how they've treated their peasants and servants, but have been fighting against all ruling classes all my adult life, and will continue to fight till I drop.

Ed Deak.

Britain was governed through

Britain was governed through WW 2 by a coalition government, with cabinet posts for all parties and it worked. It is known that it was Churchill's wish that if anything had happened to him, his place would be taken by Labour's Aneurin Bevan.

This may not be wartime, but the situation could develop into very bad conditions for millions.

There's absolutely no reason, why various politicians couldn't work for a logical, common cause, just as they would, when employed by any business.

In any case, the majority voted against Harper, therefore there's nothing "undemocratic" in the majority's demands

Ed Deak.

Let's Play!

This lust for blood at the tiny sniff wrapped in campaign-funding is revealing and amusing. Bringing in the Bloc to the DIPLIB fest is classic "The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend". Pure tribalism.

There is no crisis in the country except in the minds of those yelping wolves who are running around trying to co-opt more mongrels into their camp so as to launch their attack. The LIB faction of the gang is in total disarray with a lame-duck leader who's already planning a different career. Within this party are three potentates plotting as to how to take over their own party, with the full knowledge that dirty tricks are recent history within this very same party.

The NDP know that their chances of ever forming the government are extremely slim and are therefore positively swooning over their chance to sit in a really big chair.

I wonder if either really have stopped to think of the fire they're with in Québec. You may not like the separatists but don't imagine that they're anything but very smart and calculate carefully.

The USA is Canada's bread and butter and responsible for most of the wealth in this Country. Millions of jobs rely on the US market and more wealth comes to Canada from the huge exports of energy. The US has just elected a very different President than before and they will have a completely new administration with an eagerly anticipated agenda.

There can be no question that our Ambassador and other diplomats are in contact with the Obama administration but it would be inappropriate for them to disclose in any detail their plans. It is therefore absolutely correct for the Canadian government to delay any radical economic plan until after the Obama administration is in place in January. Particularly since a gigantic part of the financial crisis involves vehicle construction that straddles the border!

Quite correctly the Conservatives have given themselves a week after the inauguration as the date of their budget announcement.

There is no threat to Canada and the economy is performing better than any other G8 country - and we're not running a budget deficit.

Jobs are being lost in some sectors but social safety systems are fully funded for those eligible and in need.

Screams of panic are the bloodthirsty yelps of the coup planners. The constitution and parliamentary rules may be in their favour but their own disarray and fundamental ideological differences disqualify them from being a viable alternative, when te situation is in fact calm.

If the cabal do prevail it will be an absolute bonanza for us political junkies while we watch them scheme and roil and when the dust settles by next summer there will be some seriously wounded politicos to gloat over.

From the PM's office to the faithful

Saturday, November 29, 2008

Presented by

-------------- next part --------------
Text of the PMO e-mail to Tory MPs
Canwest News Service Published: Saturday, November 29, 2008

The text of the PMO e-mail to Conservative MPs containing the party's
key talking points in the run-up to a series of confidence votes.

---

Note to all Conservative members of Parliament

As you are aware, the Opposition parties are currently discussing a
plan to topple our government and replace it with a Liberal-NDP-Bloc
coalition.

While we believe such an arrangement would be an affront to the
democratic will of Canadians when they afforded us a strengthened
mandate on October 14th, we must nonetheless take this threat very
seriously.

It is therefore absolutely essential, that we use every single tool
and medium at our disposal to clearly communicate to Canadians the
crass political opportunism that actually underlies this attempt to
seize an unelected mandate and the threats this poses to our Canada's
economy in a time of looming recession.

Starting this weekend, a concerted communication effort from all
Conservative party members and activists can still shift this debate
prior to the vote.

To that end, please find attached a package of draft communications
product for you and your supporters to use in your local media markets.

? Our key messages

? Talking points for use with the local media

? Talk radio scripts for your local activists

? A letter to the editor for submission to local media

? And two "Just the Facts" documents referencing the inconsistencies
in the opposition's position.

While our preference would be for the opposition to respect our clear
mandate and allow speedy passage of the legislation accompanying the
fiscal update, we are nonetheless prepared to return to the polls over
this issue. The Conservative party is on high-alert for a return to
campaign mode.

We are asking that you use every tool at your disposal to communicate
these messages in the coming days.

Guy Giorno

Chief of Staff

Office of the Prime Minister of Canada

Copyright ? 2007 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks
Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved.
-------------- next part --------------

to the streets....

Harper has created the "perfect storm" for the creation of a a coalition government. Did he really think the opposition parties would take his economic update sitting down?

Did he really think he could take away the right to strike from thousands of people?

He does not have majority support in the votes or in Parliament but that didn't stop him.
A wiser politician and better leader would have taken that into account but Harper is neither.

We are probably witnessing Canada's biggest political blunder in recent history.

I say to the streets next weekend to support the formation of a coalition government.

what a typical bunch of

what a typical bunch of blather coming from the left here. the cpc won the election fair and square and can introduce any legislatin they want. if the opposition parties don't agree they can vote against it. harper should stick to his guns and let them go ahead. if the libs and the ndp think they're in dire straits now, let's see what canadians think of them after running a coalition gov't for a year or so. perhaps duceppe could me minister for intergovernmental affairs.

Running a minority gov't

The Conservatives have been unwilling to allow the 165 non-Conservative MPs be engaged in the governing of the country. Instead they think those 165 should just shut up and rubber-stamp what the Conservative 143 MPs put forward regardless of whether its an attack on human rights or democracy itself.

As Scott Reid in the Globe said, the Cons have declared war on their opponents and its now them or us.