The Hook

Pro-rep does not equal democracy.

After another election like we just had, all of the pro-rep folks come marching out because they feel they have been again marginalized by the fact that their extreme agendas cannot get past the voters.

Perhaps this is once again an opportune time to suggest that rather than keep bleating about pro-rep, why don't we simply bring Canada into a democracy.

Canadians are not unreasonable people. We are not against many of the things the environmental folks want to see. And on an individual, per item basis, I am certain that the people would approve them.

But the political parties in Canada ALL lust for power to dominate and ram through an unpopular agenda.

What if canada was a democratic nation, and unpopular legislation could be killed by an alert electorate?

What if every piece of legislation had a cooling off period where voters could decide if they dislike it enough to force a referendum to undo what the politicians did.

What if the voters wanted something that the politicians would not introduce for legislation? What if voters could force politician's hands on a binding initiative?

If these things were in place, it wouldn't matter who was the 'governing' party. Politicians would no longer govern, but they would in fact only administer.

The BC Refederation Party is already to give people this in BC.

Pro-rep, BC-STV, MMP and all of it's variants are only decoys to distract voters from the real issue of politicians being out of control after the election.

And the biggest stroke against BC-STV? Gordon Campbell likes it. If HE likes it, it must be suspect.

PR not necessarily the answer

"Political scientists are divided on whether proportional representation systems increase voter turnout" so says a Wikipedia entry but what would anyone know who wrote for that.

In Malta, they get a 95% turnout. There, they use a proportional system but the population has settled into voting for two parties. Because Malta uses STV people used the fact that they choose to have only two parties to "prove" STV wasn't a proportional system.

There isn't much you can say for sure about what would happen in a given place if you implemented a given system. And when a system is changed, people don't get what they expect, and in some cases are very unhappy. But this is just what people who spend their entire working lives studying electoral systems, and what would they know.

Ireland, another place with the only PR system about to come up on our agenda, i.e. STV, has had a steadily declining voter turnout since the 1970s. There is a general decline in voter turnout in Europe for all elections, and I think all countries except the UK have some form of PR.

Why sell a system saying it will do something it likely will not do, i.e. increase voter turnout?

Sell STV. That's the one that's on the ballot next election here. What's good about that? Why is it so good that we'll get rid of what we have?

What I learned as I studied STV (I haven't lived and voted anywhere they had it) was it would encourage factions, to the point of making independents electable in certain cases.

Instead of all the losers being totally choked after the election because everyone got in everyone else's way in a system that is winner take all, everyone will be totally choked at each other as all the factions that were elected jockey for position and power in the coalition government as it forms. But at least the voters get to decide how large and influential each faction is, instead of the issue being decided in some big tent party's back room prior to the election.

Each voter gets to vote their choice as they feel like it and the complex, "unspeakeably obtuse" counting system ensures your vote goes to implement your wishes. You can give one of your votes to someone but if they can get elected without your vote you have listed a second choice you'd like it applied to in that case, and on and on. Its perfect for the I want the planet killed, so vote Conservative, but if he can't use it vote Layton, he's sure to kill it making sure the average Canadian doesn't have to pay a dime to help out, after that go Liberal, they've told lies before maybe they're lying now that they care no one cares, and just leave the Greens off your list. STV will serve up those votes very efficiently for you. If there's enough people like you the planet will die.

The barrier to getting elected isn't as high as some seem to think. The key to understanding what the barrier to getting elected means, i.e. it looks like something around you need 20% of the voters in one of the large 5 member districts to vote for you, is to understand that STV gives each voter the ability to split their vote between parties.

A voter in a 5 member riding can think, I'd like to see one Green in the Legislature even though I'm a diehard (insert tyrannical right wing carbon taxer or defender of poor average canadian carbon tax killer here) so I'll give one of my 5 votes to this Green, and the other 4 to those other clowns. I don't think the Greens saw this aspect when they rejected STV last time. It enables the Irish Greens to elect members even though they have less than 5% of the vote.

The reason STV appealed to the Citizen's Assembly, just my guess now, is it is the only PR system that requires all MLAs to have been elected directly by voters. The rest of the PR systems involve some list the parties prepare, the voters vote for parties and depending on what % comes in for each party, if your name is high on the list you get in.

No zombie MLAs is one thing the scientists say is appreciated by voters in STV systems. If your party slides you in high enough on the list, the voters could be really wanting to drive a stake through your heart but still want to support your party and in that case they have no choice and if enough of them vote for your party you appear, like a zombie, elected to the Legislature, nothing can kill you, even if every voter voted thinking I hope you don't win.

David Lewis

Just one thing, even in a 5 member riding, you still get only one vote although you could certainly list a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th choice.

S.Yee

"Your 2nd, 3rd, 4th ranked candidates will NOT get your vote. Only if your 1st choice ISN'T elected."

Not exactly. If your 1st candidate got more votes than he needed then only a percentage of your vote would be needed to elect him. The remainder would go to your 2nd choice.

Also, if we elect our PM directly then he would no no longer be responsible to parliament, he'd get his mandate directly from the people. Would he then get a veto over legislation passed by parliament like a US president?

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