The Hook

BC Liberals won election lying there would be no HST!

[OFFENSIVE COMMENT DIRECTED AT ANOTHER COMMENTER REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

BC Liberals lied to us & now they want our $ as well.

The BC Liberals have got to be the most corrupt and unscrupulous gov't British Columbia has ever seen.

Why not tax the poor and give the rich?

I think there are better names for this tax and it will harmonize their ideologies. Like the carbon tax (I support the idea of taxing carbon) it will take from lower income people and give it back to large corporations who need to be taxed a lot more. The carbon tax was a good idea, but giving subsidies to the gas producers up north makes this tax pointless, unless it is just to take from those who don't have much anyway. The HST similarly will take from those at the lower end of the income bracket and help large corporations with their bottom line. When is it going to be ok to suggest raising taxes for people who make a lot of money?

The NDP Will Keep The HST...

You can bank on that.

The wonderful Carole James is playing politics for now, but after the HST is introduced on July 1, 2010, that's it folks.

Carole James is already on the record for stating it would be "too complicated" to repeal the HST.

And that's "code language" for "The NDP does not want to pay back the $1.7 billion "bribe" to the federal government. So we are goin' to keep the "bribe" (and that's only if the NDP ever forms government.)

Simply put - The NDP doesn't care what the people think.

And the BC NDP doesn't even care that the new NDP government in Saskatchewan had the HST repealed in 1991.

Heck, even the new NDP government in Nova Scotia is about to announce an increase in their HST rate, which will be heftier than BC's. Lottsa misery in that jurisdiction.

For folks who really hate the HST, the BC Conservatives are your best bet. They have a platform that reduces the 12% HST to 5% with the elimination of the provincial tax component. It's like manna from heaven!

Tax idea

How about a tax on lies, proportional to the size of the lie?

I agree

Why doesn't the NDP campaign on repealing the HST?

Why not repeal?

Because they'd have to give back the $1.6 billion in transition funds from a treasury raided and laid bare by BC Fiberal incompetence. Imagine what the right-wing nutbars would do with that headline. Canvas Goebbels would play that for decades longer than they'd played Clark's deck.

All you right-wing nutbars are merely playing straw man, and it doesn't stand up well on its own. You should find another pastime.

Sigh. St. Luke's right in his headline, at least - the NDP would keep the tax, and so would any other party that came to power - communist, fascist or smarmitarian....

You can safely ignore the rest of whatever it was he said. "Brawling ignorance delivering blind and ignorant judgements etc. etc...." I've quoted it so often in his respect that you all know it by heart now.

Why not call it what it

Why not call it what it is"The latest Tax grab tax by Gordo".The circus is over and the bills are coming in. All the dancing by Hansen isn't going to change a think, the people are against it by a massive percentage, as even the Liberal trolls must understand that Gordo and Co. lied prior to the election. MInd you, he has been lying for years

Unless stopped first, the

Unless stopped first, the B.C. Lieberals, of course, will be locking the HST in for five years and, unlike the current government I do hope a new one won't continue the practice of breaking the contracts of previous governing parties.

There is much the NDP can do in the five years prior to the agreement expiring to ameliorate the worst effects of the Horrible Stupid Tax, and, should it become law, they should do those things, not void contracts signed by the previous party.

Once the mirror has been broken, passing a law to repeal the breakage isn't going to be very effective, and we shouldn't compound the lying by pretending it would.

Confused by NDP tactics

As a disabled man, I can only tell you that this government is the most heartless group of individuals I have ever seen assembled in one place. I can honestly say that the only way to describe the treatment we have recieved by the BC Liberals as incredibly cruel and designed to promote disabled suicide as a means of preventing any government income from being spent on anything except corporate taxation reduction.

However, I simply can not understand the NDP. They spend all their time tring to prove that Gordon Campbell rarely tells the truth. The citizens of British Columbia are very well aware that these guys refuse to act with honour and lie constantly. From the sale of BC Rail to the HST we all know that the LIberals have absolutely no credibilty left in anything they say and apparently the rest of the BC Liberals are O.K. with this as they support these bold face lies with every last bit of their immoral fibre. I have been trying for months to get help as BC Housing has raised my rent from $362 to $510 and that as of October my son and I will be either homeless or moved into a tiny hole of a bachelor suit right in the middle of Prince Georges highest crime neighbourhood. You'd think the NDP would use this story to show the citizens of British Columbia that their leaders are nothing more than thugs with little concern or care for a disabled family. Instead we still get the same old thing about trying to prove that Gordo lied about the HST.

Which situation do you think the opposition should try. The same old Gordo's a liar or the BC Liberals are trying to drive the disabled into such dispair that they take their own lives at an ever increasing rate.

I just don't get it. I think they really do not want to be in power. This is the only thing I can think of as a means of understanding their actions. Meanwhile, the message that a society is judged upon how it treats it's most vulnerable simply floats out of the publics conscience.

put more money in people's pockets

i think hansen's latest attempt to justify the provinces biggest taxgrab to date will only fall flat in his face.
the one thing the government and the business community have failed to discuss from the day they announced the HST is how and who is making this taxgrab possible, when you bite the hand that feeds you you have to expect something like this to happen.
i dont think in the liberals wildest dreams ever expected this much disapproval from the province and its voters over this taxgrab.
theres nothing they can do or say to make this taxgrab look good.
theres one thing the current government has to lose from bringing in this tax, the province.

So why isn't the NDP stating it would repeal?

Interesting comments. But one thing is missing here.

Why isn't the NDP stating that they would repeal the HST should they become government next time?

They seem to be wimping out, and will become hypocritical if they keep it.

Just like the federal Liberals were in regards to the GST.

The Truth

The truth is something no politician will state. Ignatief hints at it be even he won't say it:

That demographic changes are going to mean tax hikes. As the population ages, social costs are sky rocketing. This has to be paid for somehow and a VAT is the easiest way to get it.

As a society, there is a need to reexamine how social programmes are delivered but not one politician has the courage to openly say that.

Of course, the left will get on its high horse and demand that somebody else pays but since 80% of Canadians make within 80% of each other, it is the middle class that will foot most of the bill for new budget growth. The wealthy, and there really aren't that many, are already highly taxed and if you nail them harder, they will simply vote with their feet.

And of course the NDP will not repeal the HST if and when they form a government. They cannot because if one does a dispassionate analysis of what the HST does for the economy, the benefits outweigh the costs.

Thus, as usual, the NDP blows smoke, thinking they will win the next election by default, like they always think. They don't want to be tied down to specific policy initiatives in case they have to back down from then when they are in government. They continue to be a "no" party and then wonder why they sit in opposition.

Can't see it changing, either.

Straw Dog Liberals, BC Boy & W Laurier

Only a true blue BC Liberal could defend our provincial gov't. "Realist" clearly shows how the BC Liberals are destroying this province and forcing our disabled citizens into a corner:

As a disabled man, I can only tell you that this government is the most heartless group of individuals I have ever seen assembled in one place. I can honestly say that the only way to describe the treatment we have recieved by the BC Liberals as incredibly cruel and designed to promote disabled suicide as a means of preventing any government income from being spent on anything except corporate taxation reduction.

Defending the BC Liberals is a DEFENSE OF THE INDEFENSIBLE.

BC Boy and W Laurier are nothing more than BC Liberal collaborators.

Collabrators? Not likey.

Sorry not a BC Liberal collaborator here.

It's rather odd the NDP shills aren't going after the NDP to get them to repeal the HST.

The NDP did not magically resolve everything affecting our disabled citizens, far from it.

I would sugges the left wingers get busy and tell the NDP to repeal the HST as a major reason for voting for them next time, otherwise the NDP will look more hypocritical than the federal Liberals were when they originally said they would get rid of the GST if elected.

Name calling isn't going to resolve anything.

HST Credit?

Only, when you are married, if you're earning less than 43K per year as a family.

Earning 50K together? Nothing.

Single person? No credit for 41K or over.

The personal income tax exemption will net you 100 - 150 a year.

$12 a month. Maybe.

Hansen is a bad liar. So's Gord.

Hey, the "Bad Liars' Additional Tax"

BLAT.

NDP Hypocrisy...

http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Federal-Politics/2009/11/06/NDP-to-vote-against-NST-bribe-funds-Layton/

And Carole James has also been beating the drum against the federal HST "bribe".

Stick to your principles NDP. Oh wait - you don't have any.

The BC NDP will keep the HST and the federal HST "bribe" but will also keep that little secret from the electorate (at least they think that).

And some [EDITED. -MODERATOR.] in BC will fall for the NDP's anti-HST position along the lines of "A Sucker is Born Every Minute".

Don't want HST in BC? Vote BC Conservative - That's why Vander Zalm and BC deputy Conservative Party leader Chris Delaney are leading the Fight HST campaign and the Initiative process.

[OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

[OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

10 yrs from now

it will always be the BC Liberal party known for bringing the provinces biggest taxgrab to date just like it is now.
whether or not the NDP get rid of it is another story but we do know what party fully supports this taxgrab now don't we.
the finance minister cant even get his facts and story straight with getting the word out on this tax.
thank god theres one party who believes in democracy and has been speaking out against this tax from the beginning on the other hand not one single Liberal MLA is willing to go against there party ranks to speak up for there constituents.
this is just a great big taxgrab taking $1.9 billion out of every british columbians pockets. if only the public who's making this taxgrab possible can see past the $1.9 billion thats coming out of there pockets and into big businesses. it no wonder there having such a difficult time trying to sell this taxgrab.

Supporting VanderZalm? Give it a rest

"Don't want HST in BC? Vote BC Conservative - That's why Vander Zalm and BC deputy Conservative Party leader Chris Delaney are leading the Fight HST campaign and the Initiative process."

BC Conservatives are a go no where party unless they come up with something more than just being a party for old tea bags.

VanderZalm is just a publicity hound, nothing more. He was okay to 1987 to early 1988 but then went downhill faster than
a truck with no brakes on the Coquihalla
and caused Social Credit to sail over the edge and nose dive into the canyons.

Amazing that NDP and other left wingers are supporting VanderZalm, when the NDP and left wingers in the late 1980's hated anything that VanderZalm did or touched.

That has to be the most laughable thing about this anti-HST drive.

Best thing to do is just get the NDP to repeal the HST as a major policy foundation (which they won't do).

Tax grab? Might be, just as the GST is a tax grab. The federal Liberals pledged to get rid of the GST in their policy to get elected as government, and once they did,
they did not repeal the GST.

this isnt just about the ndp or the bc liberals

its about right and wrong, expecting the province to fork out $1.9 billion annually with the promise of miracles is a little too much from any government, will the province fall apart without this tax? probably not, will business go elsewhere? i doubt it.
why is this tax so important to the province that they have had to continuously manipulate the public with spin after spin after spin?
can you blame the public for all the mistrust they currently have for the government because of this taxgrab?
you can point the finger all you want at the NDP but thats never going to change the publics anger for the deception of this taxgrab courtesy of the Campbell government. its there deal i cant predict the future bc boy anymore than you can just look at the the bc liberals pre-election deficit number of read my lips $495 million or the HST which wasnt on there radar before and during the last election.
i couldnt care less about the ndp in this issue its not there deal.
i wonder how many liberal MLA's are thanking the the ones who are making this taxgrab possible.

Meanwhile, as we type...

.....a number of new increases have been introduced as of April 1st- BC Hydro rates up, camping fees in parks up, etc., etc.

.Luke. / luke skywalker

Talking about principles - now that is funny.

The NDp does not have any principles.

Funny, but the NDP current does not have any principles. If they did, they would
come out right now and say they would repeal the HST, but they won't.

and GW, the facts are in regards to BC
Rail, it was WAC not Barrett that started the Deas Lake Extension, which pittered out before the NDP came to power.

dot Luke

Up to the same old game of comparing NDP policies of the past with those of Carole James...

Colin Thatcher's dad was a Liberal cabinet minister in Saskatchewan.

Do all Liberals shoot their wives?

Wilf and BC Boy

The NDP isn't in government and you guys say they never will be.

If you were honest you two would direct your worries about the HST to the government that brought in the HST and has almost a full term still to go.

You can worry about the NDP's position when 2013 rolls around.

But then we all know you guys are just faithful BC Liberal party members that back everything Gord does which is why you prefer to attack the Opposition for the crimes of government rather than defend that government you both voted for.

Doesn't seem logical

The NDP isn't in government and you guys say they never will be.

"If you were honest you two would direct your worries about the HST to the government that brought in the HST and has almost a full term still to go."

Why would there be worries on my part about the HST? While there are things that
are going to be taxed that weren't before,
These same worries have already been through when the GST came.

"You can worry about the NDP's position when 2013 rolls around."

I won;t worry about the NDP's position in 2013, because they won't have any.

"But then we all know you guys are just faithful BC Liberal party members that back everything Gord does which is why you prefer to attack the Opposition for the crimes of government rather than defend that government you both voted for."

Well I guess in that instance, the previous poster is too busy attacking the BC Liberals without supporting the NDP's
alleged position on the HST or their leader.

Not very logical. More of the silly
analysis that the left wing likes to get into alot.

The NDP should state exactly if they are going to repeal the HST or not, since they seem to be against the HST now, and are getting into politiking. If they don't repeal the HST, they will look like hypcrites.

Stupid statement

"Up to the same old game of comparing NDP policies of the past with those of Carole James...

Colin Thatcher's dad was a Liberal cabinet minister in Saskatchewan.

Do all Liberals shoot their wives?"

Stupid statement.

Does that mean that all NDPers are embezzlers, skimming off charity funds?

Lets hope that they don't want to get into the boat building business because they obviously can't build a boat that actually
sails without breaking down.

Then there was one NDPer that fondled
a woman. Do all NDPers do that, Frank?

The problem is

Carole James doesn't actually 'play' politics.

She's incompetent as a politician because she still seems to care about at least 'trying' to tell the truth.

Naturally, as a counterpoint to a congenital liar that's going to cause some disconcerting moments.

I'd suggest that's YOUR problem - not Carole James's.

Not all NDPers fondle women - some of them are gay - not that there's anything wrong with that.

When you've reached so low that all you have against an NDP candidate is that he showed an expression of physical attraction for another human being, and acted on it, you're into luke skywalker/dot Luke territory and you're not really part of the conversation at all.

I think that’s a little different than shooting your wife, now don’t you?

Furthermore, your accusation agains David Stupich is both unfair and simply, WRONG.

If you were worth the effort I'd prove it to you - but you're not.

And BC Boy

I wasn't talking about political principles - I was talking about the totally unprincipled person who was making allegations about them.

Which should have been, for anyone with a modicum of intelligence, obvious.

Does James play the game?

"Carole James doesn't actually 'play' politics."

She does, but it's minor league, School trustee league, not the major league. She
tries to be too nice, caters to too many interests. There are others in the NDP Caucus that would show much better leadership than she does.

"She's incompetent as a politician because she still seems to care about at least 'trying' to tell the truth."

Trying isn't what she's doing. She comes
across as someone who just read the book
on leadership, and then wonders what the next step is.

"I'd suggest that's YOUR problem - not Carole James's."

Not my problem, it's the NDP's actually.
She's their leader, and she should be replaced as the NDP isn't going anywhere on their own merits. They will go places
but that's because the BC Liberals have
been given them opportunities to do so.

"Not all NDPers fondle women - some of them are gay - not that there's anything wrong with that."

Never said there was with any one of the them being gay, could careless if an NDP MLA is gay or not, it doesn't affect what is they are supposed to do for the voters who elect them, but Frank came up
with the most ridiculous generic statement.

"When you've reached so low that all you have against an NDP candidate is that he showed an expression of physical attraction for another human being, and acted on it,"

Well that attraction was not apperciated by the woman, and Blencoe should have left her alone, but didn't so it went to court.

you're into luke skywalker/dot Luke territory and you're not really part of the conversation at all."

Same can be applied to Frank with his statments.

"I think that’s a little different than shooting your wife, now don’t you?"

Same silly statement. That wife shooting was one person, not everyone in one party.

"Furthermore, your accusation agains David Stupich is both unfair and simply, WRONG."

No it isn't. He was found guilty and was
sentenced in a court of law.He himself said he was involved with NCHS. End of story.

"If you were worth the effort I'd prove it to you - but you're not."

No need. It was clearly done with in a court of law. There was no appeal of the case. There's nothing more to prove as the case was closed when he was found guilty. There was no subsequent appeal that overturned his sentence or the outcome of the first court proceeding.

Does James play the game?

"Carole James doesn't actually 'play' politics."

She does, but it's minor league, School trustee league, not the major league. She
tries to be too nice, caters to too many interests. There are others in the NDP Caucus that would show much better leadership than she does.

"She's incompetent as a politician because she still seems to care about at least 'trying' to tell the truth."

Trying isn't what she's doing. She comes
across as someone who just read the book
on leadership, and then wonders what the next step is.

"I'd suggest that's YOUR problem - not Carole James's."

Not my problem, it's the NDP's actually.
She's their leader, and she should be replaced as the NDP isn't going anywhere on their own merits. They will go places
but that's because the BC Liberals have
been given them opportunities to do so.

"Not all NDPers fondle women - some of them are gay - not that there's anything wrong with that."

Never said there was with any one of the them being gay, could careless if an NDP MLA is gay or not, it doesn't affect what is they are supposed to do for the voters who elect them, but Frank came up
with the most ridiculous generic statement.

"When you've reached so low that all you have against an NDP candidate is that he showed an expression of physical attraction for another human being, and acted on it,"

Well that attraction was not apperciated by the woman, and Blencoe should have left her alone, but didn't so it went to court.

you're into luke skywalker/dot Luke territory and you're not really part of the conversation at all."

Same can be applied to Frank with his statments.

"I think that’s a little different than shooting your wife, now don’t you?"

Same silly statement. That wife shooting was one person, not everyone in one party.

"Furthermore, your accusation agains David Stupich is both unfair and simply, WRONG."

No it isn't. He was found guilty and was
sentenced in a court of law.He himself said he was involved with NCHS. End of story.

"If you were worth the effort I'd prove it to you - but you're not."

No need. It was clearly done with in a court of law. There was no appeal of the case. There's nothing more to prove as the case was closed when he was found guilty. There was no subsequent appeal that overturned his sentence or the outcome of the first court proceeding.

Unprincipled?

"I wasn't talking about political principles - I was talking about the totally unprincipled person who was making allegations about them."

Agree there. Frank isn't much when it comesto principles.

"Which should have been, for anyone with a modicum of intelligence, obvious."

[OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

Twist in the wind BC Boy

Play dumb if you like - that's the nice thing about this forum - you don't get to erase the things you post - they hang around and everyone gets to make their own judgment about the poster and the things posted.

But then, as someone said before, little boys like to play games. And folks often chose a name, as an avatar, which inadvertently characterizes them in ways they surely never intended.

Not only is Frank one of the most principled posters here - and has been for years - he's also one of the funniest.

Stupich wasn't 'found' guilty, he rolled over to save his family - unable to afford more money to defend himself against the false accusations of Campbell's trolls.

Like I said, there's no point in arguing with some people.

Dave Stupich is responsible for one of the greatest things the NDP ever instituted in this province - the ALR.

He's a hero and he never stole a penny from anyone.

Playing dumb.

"Play dumb if you like - that's the nice thing about this forum - you don't get to erase the things you post - they hang around and everyone gets to make their own judgment about the poster and the things posted."

Sone do, many don't. As for not erasing things, true, but in the real scheme of things, opinions from obscure persons such as myself and the previous poster are hardly useful in good cohesive and functional resarch for political projects.

They are just opinions without much weighted merit when it comes to real research.

"But then, as someone said before, little boys like to play games. And folks often chose a name, as an avatar, which inadvertently characterizes them in ways they surely never intended."

Some read way too deep into those labels
and other spend way too much time worrying about their composition.

"Not only is Frank one of the most principled posters here - and has been for years - he's also one of the funniest."

I wouldn't say that. To categorise any group of political people of also killing their wives isn't very funny.

"Stupich wasn't 'found' guilty, he rolled over to save his family - unable to afford more money to defend himself against the false accusations of Campbell's trolls."

Um, no. he did plead guilty, and was sentenced. Campbell had nothing to do with
it, as it was an NCHS insider working within that society that first
brought the embezzling to attention.

There was never any aspect of that insider being traced back to being one of Campbell's trolls, supporters or any of that sort. He was an NDP riding association
supporter who worked volunteer time at NCHS.

It would be hardly Campbell's Trolls because Nanaimo at the time was heavily NDP in terms of political environment.

Nanaimo was not exactly a riding the same
way as Kerrisdale, or North Vancouver was
at the time (light NDP).

"Like I said, there's no point in arguing with some people."

Agree there.

"Dave Stupich is responsible for one of the greatest things the NDP ever instituted in this province - the ALR."

Partially true, but that ALR has caused
a few problems, I know that from the agricultural end of things, the ALR has protected some farmland which by the geology of the soils is no longer productive to merit profitabilty for the farmowners, but has done a good job in protecting farm land

"He's a hero and he never stole a penny from anyone."

Um, he did lead the NCHS which did embezzle
funds from charities to the NDP's headquarters from which that money made its way to riding association's operating accounts and riding campaign funds. That was all covered during the court proceedings.

End of story, return to HST

Reasons for sentencing, Stupich and NHCS
case:

http://www.llbc.leg.bc.ca/public/pubdocs/bcdocs/377231/s99_2089.txt

Now getting off this silly "Stupich is a hero" blind loyalty and back to the NDP
and why they won't simply just state they will repeal the HST as a major policy
should they become government in 2013..

You're right about that

You are an OBSCURE PERSON; as for my reputation - I'll let others speak fot that.

'Blind' loyalty: Hardly.

Stupich was the biggest bondholder of the NCH society - He'd have to be an idiot to steal from himself.

Furthermore, the Regulations governing the Society were perfectly consistent with the way it was operated.

You clearly don't know anything about the court proceedings, the inquiries, or the people who engineered them.

Why am I not surprised?

The NDP should repeal the HST if the current batch of idiots actually succeed in getting it passed. Another NDP government did the same thing already and the sky didn't fall.

And if you think

Because something was decided in a BC COURT, that it is therefore gospel - then you don't know anything about the courts or the justice system.

BC Rail HST similarities

Denied prior to election.

Bribes paid and accepted.

Control awarded to out of province entity.

Additional costs to BC residents and businesses.

Loss of autonomy.

Same sad sack liberals sacrificing the province for nothing but their own egos or......

NDP won't repeal.

"You are an OBSCURE PERSON; as for my reputation - I'll let others speak fot that."

Sure. Every person has others speaking
for them. Nothing new there.

Not particularly interested in any perceived reputation of other obscure opinion contributors.

'Blind' loyalty: Hardly.

I'll let that speak for itself. I haven't
seen the previous poster's degree of blind loyalty to one person since I was seeing
those who were devoutly loyal to VanderZalm when he was Premier.

"Stupich was the biggest bondholder of the NCH society - He'd have to be an idiot to steal from himself."

Read the court proceding.

"Furthermore, the Regulations governing the Society were perfectly consistent with the way it was operated."

Hence the court action against it, right?

"You clearly don't know anything about the court proceedings, the inquiries, or the people who engineered them."

Well you obviously don't understand the
court system yourself. What you were reading is the Reasons for Sentencing.

"Why am I not surprised?"

Why am I not surprised at the previous poster's blind loyalty to one previous
NDP MLA who ended up in court?

"The NDP should repeal the HST if the current batch of idiots actually succeed in getting it passed."

They won't. What they might do is reduce
the level of HST taxation, but that doesn't
remove the HST entirely so the NDP will
still end up being hypocrites. As getting
it passed, that will happen. The NDP does
not have the numbers to prevent it from
passing.

"Another NDP government did the same thing already and the sky didn't fall."

Then the BC NDP has a precedent to work with. But the BC NDP is too stupid to use that as a base to complete the task here in B.C.

Courts had the last say

"Because something was decided in a BC COURT, that it is therefore gospel - then you don't know anything about the courts or the justice system."

Obviously the previous poster doesn't know anything about the courts or the justice system.

Or is selective in what he will accept or not accept from the courts in BC.

Which isn't unusual.

Hey

If and NDPer like Stupich is found guilty of corruption but a BC court, he was framed, even if an NDP government was in power at the time.

If he was a Socred or Liberal he got what he deserved.

Easy Peasy.

He was.

"If and NDPer like Stupich is found guilty of corruption but a BC court, he was framed, even if an NDP government was in power at the time."

He was found guilty and he wasn't framed.
Someone squeaked. In fact the incident
came apart while the NDP was in power.

If he was a Socred or Liberal he got what he deserved."

Well he did get what he deserved as determined by the sentencing judge so
nothing new there.

The blind loyal displayed by one poster for Stupich is not as equal to the nutty blind loyalty I saw alot from supporters of VanderZalm, thankfully.

HST

Stupich has nothing to do with this issue.
You should research to see if the HST law can be repealed. It may not be able to due to the money the Feds have given BC to help reduce the embarrassment of running a deficit. Do the research before you bring up an issue.

Of coruse Stupich isn't the issue...

"Stupich has nothing to do with this issue.
You should research to see if the HST law can be repealed. "

Of course Stupich isn't the issue. Never was.

It may not be able to due to the money the Feds have given BC to help reduce the embarrassment of running a deficit. Do the research before you bring up an issue."

Tell it to the previous posters, including the one who allegedly has a blind loyalty
to a previous NDP MLA.

The NDP can do what ever it wants should
it become govermment. A previous NDP MLA
Zirnhelt told British Columbians that
when the NDP was in government, remember.

The NDP can repeal the HST if they want to.

All that takes is the will to do it. If there is no agreement that the HST would not ever be repealed, then the NDP can do it within one week of being in the Legislature as government after winning the 2013 election.

Even if they can't, they can reduce the
HST to one tenth of one percent so it is barely visible.

Otherwise they will end up being hypocritical with their current antics
and their political games.

BC Boy

says, "The NDP can do what ever it wants should
it become govermment."
Tell that to the BC Liberals who had their legislation against BC government workers overturned by the Supreme Court of Canada.

Tell them yourself

"Tell that to the BC Liberals who had their legislation against BC government workers overturned by the Supreme Court of Canada."

Tell them yourself. Your nearest BC Liberal MLA can be found at the BC Government website.

Stupich has nothing to do with the issue

Precisely.

Then why did YOU bring up the subject BC BOY?

I'll tell you why, simple deflection and the usual tactics of a dishonest interlocutor.

But, another ruined thread is the result.

What else is new?

What is new in New Democrat?

"Then why did YOU bring up the subject BC BOY?"

Why did you keep going on with it when
I was turning this back to the HST??

"I'll tell you why, simple deflection and the usual tactics of a dishonest interlocutor."

Tell people it is just opinions. Forget the fancy label ("interlocutor") for someone who just gives opinions like everyone else. No different. Labels like that just fancy up tasks or interests and
people do use them to make them look more important than they are in reality.

"But, another ruined thread is the result. "

Thank you. Glad to assist..

With your help of course. The thread was just spinning wheels and becoming an NDP
pamphlet for supporters.

"What else is new?"

Let's see. What can be 'new' in New Democrats..

The NDP actually decides to:

(a) Repeal the HST 100% if they are elected next time, or;

(b) If they can't because of the agreement committments, they rescind the current 12%
HST to just 0.1%?

(c) The NDP goes smart and decide to
replace their current leader with a new
person who actually shows decisive leadership and actauly works to offer
something tangible for the voters.

The point, since you've missed it again

The point, since you've missed it again, is that the province isn't yet one year into another 4 year CAMPBELL TERM. What the NDP can do or say is very little - a promise now to repeal the HST would mean nothing anyway - except to people who aren't really interested in discussing what the effects of the HST will be and are more inclined to dissemble and deflect criticism of the Campbell Government.

Things like who will likely be hurt, who will obviously be assisted and the general economic effects - given what's known about other jurisdictions.'

Again, you bring up irrelevancies.

WHY?

There won't be another election until 2013 - given the current direction, unless Vander Zalm and Co are successful at bringing Campbell to heel on this issue - there will be more poverty, more homelessness, more business failure and more resources sell out to talk about during that campaign.

Governments LOSE elections; oppositions don't WIN them.

Campbell's manure pile is growing and the best his so-called supporters can do is talk about the distant past.

[ABUSIVE COMMENT DIRECTED AT ANOTHER COMMENTER REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

NDP needs to move.

"The point, since you've missed it again, is that the province isn't yet one year into another 4 year CAMPBELL TERM."

Not a point discussed here. But technically that commencement of the year into the term won't happen until the third week of May. Be in a pub and cry in the beer when it happens.

"What the NDP can do or say is very little - a promise now to repeal the HST would mean nothing anyway - except to people who aren't really interested in discussing what the effects of the HST will be and are more inclined to dissemble and deflect criticism of the Campbell Government."

Wrong there. Basic politics here. If the NDP decided that they would either repeal
the HST or rescind to 0.01% (making the
tax barely visible), they could possibly
win over more people in support.

Things like who will likely be hurt, who will obviously be assisted and the general economic effects - given what's known about other jurisdictions.'

Over time, that will be worn out, since
it just generates the same discussion topics over and over again, without any
aspect of a resolution to the problem. It's the old "repeatedly discussion of a problem and not coming up with solutions for those who want them".

"Again, you bring up irrelevancies."

The previous poster has many times.

"There won't be another election until 2013 - given the current direction, unless Vander Zalm and Co are successful at bringing Campbell to heel on this issue - there will be more poverty, more homelessness, more business failure and more resources sell out to talk about during that campaign."

Well, again, all the more reason for the NDP and their supporters to end the spinning of the wheels repeatedly showing there's a problem out there, and get out and actually do something to provide solutions for an alleged NDP government in 2013, in other words prepare now for a future government with boxed solutions ready to go.

Perpetually whining and complaining without providing workable solutions that people wil go for doesn't do much except fill opinion strips in written media.

"Governments LOSE elections; oppositions don't WIN them."

If a government loses an election, the Opposition will WIN. It is a sense of
what direction you're heading. Did the NDP
LOSE the 2001 election? They did, but the BC Liberals WON the election as a recourse.

"Campbell's manure pile is growing and the best his so-called supporters can do is talk about the distant past."

The previous poster has made references to the NDP's past too.

"The one thing Carole James and her party should do, is totally ignore advice from Campbelloid idiots…."

They don't and never did take any advice from Campbelloid idiots and she's aren't very good at taking good advice from within her own party.

There's trouble in Jamestown and there
needs to be sweep on the streets of that place.

I repeat

[I REPEAT: ABUSIVE COMMENT DIRECTED AT ANOTHER COMMENTER REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

she's aren't

Is that a type of cheese?

NDP should get a delivery happening.

"The one thing Carole James and her party should do, is totally ignore advice from Campbelloid idiots….

I think YOU know who I'm referring to"

Great! Knew you were thinking of her!

Write a letter to Carole James
and tell her not to take advice from the Campbelloid idiots and get goin' on workable solutions that can be boxed in time for delivery to the voters during the next provincial election.

Dear Editor

One of things I love about the tyee is the bantering in the comments section.

However, the recent addition of BC Boy is extremely offensive. He, as is any poster, welcome to contirbute to the debate. BC Boy's self appointed role as comment mediator is totaly out of line and distracts from the debate.

I've tried to ignore him, and won't respond to his comments, but he's ruining the discussion with his tatics.

The Tyee is not an NDP facet.

"One of things I love about the tyee is the bantering in the comments section.

However, the recent addition of BC Boy is extremely offensive. He, as is any poster, welcome to contirbute to the debate. BC Boy's self appointed role as comment mediator is totaly out of line and distracts from the debate."

What debate. It's more of a few NDP supporters wanting to get their edge in.

I've tried to ignore him, and won't respond to his comments, but he's ruining the discussion with his tatics."

Oh? and the tactics of a few obvious left wing supporters?

The Tyee isn't the NDP's Democrat paper nor is it an NDP pamphlet. I've not taking a liking to some other commentators here and haven't responded to them.

But others may get a response if they get too far off the left lane on the highway.

and why is the Tyee being a whine festival?

With some of the commentators here, why is the Tyee being not much more than a whine festival featuring the best in BC Whines?

There should be balanced debate, (pro and con), not just a shelf of examples of fine whine that leans to the left.

The Tyee used to be good with constructive balanced debate a few years ago, but is going downhill with poor quality articles
taking up space on subjects that don't have
much meaning such as Ralston's going on about alternative names for the HST Bill,
but there is no mention of what his party would do as an alternative.

[SNIDE COMMENT DIRECTED AT OTHER COMMENTERS REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

So there ya go.

All for balanced debate

Just haven't seen any of it from you, BC Boy.

Now, back to the HST?

Why should anyone accept the BCLiberal explanation for their huge policy change after May 13, 2009?

Has there been an adequate explanation of such an incredible flip-flop?

I don't believe there has been.

Furthermore, the suggestion that one can't disagree with the current administration and NOT BE AN NDP hack is offensive in the extreme.

I belong to no political party and reserve the right to criticize anyone - however, editors, I find the suggestion that I can't be anything but a left-wing whiner because I don't buy BC Boy's definition of 'balance' is overtly offensive in the extreme.

facet?

Please provide a reason why 'that' word makes any sense in the context.

back to the HST.

Now, back to the HST?

Why should anyone accept the BCLiberal explanation for their huge policy change after May 13, 2009?

They shouldn't. They weren't forthcoming,
and should have been. Big mistake from them.

"Has there been an adequate explanation of such an incredible flip-flop?"

Nope. Every party has its flip flops. The
BC Liberals, the federal Liberals, Conservatives, NDP.

"I don't believe there has been."

There hasn't been.

Furthermore, the suggestion that one can't disagree with the current administration and NOT BE AN NDP hack is offensive in the extreme."

Not really. I mentioned "left wing" never
NDP hack. There is oppposition based on
fact, and opposition based on pure politics
and constant hatred for the BC Liberals
which is fine, but few people seperate the two during the heat of debate.

"I belong to no political party and reserve the right to criticize anyone -"

Well so do I. You do not possess any more
reserved rights than the rest of us.

however, editors, I find the suggestion that I can't be anything but a left-wing whiner because I don't buy BC Boy's definition of 'balance' is overtly offensive in the extreme."

Well, I find assertions that somehow I am employed by PAB (which is not true. in fact I am not employed anywhere within the BC Liberal Government. At all. ), and
a devout follower of Gordon Campbell (which I am not) offensive too. I do not
volunteer for the BC Liberal Party, nor at any time have I ever volunteered for Gordon Campbell, ever.

Now then. Back to the HST. If the NDP
does not like the HST, then it is up to them to come up with ways that they would
deal with it should at some future time they win governmment (let's say c. 2013).

Playing politics and coming up with labels for a bill during the taxpayer's time is
not very productive.

The NDP does not want the tax. It will be passed, so the NDP will then have to come up with ways to handle it when they become governmment, to prevent themselves from being hypocrites like the federal Liberals did with the GST.

Not really

The Tyee has only existed since 2003 - remember?

And, you wrote this, which is, mutatis mutandis, pretty much the same thing as calling people NDP hacks.

Would you care to go back to the era of Ron Erwin?

Fact is, ny friend, kootenay has you dead to rights and so does Frank.

If you really wanted better commentary, the best thing you could do is stop your copy and paste hijinks and tell us what YOU think.

So let's get on with it.

"The Tyee has only existed since 2003 - remember?"

Of course I do, but products do go down in quality, and I've seen the Tyee do that once, and it is going like that again.

having alternative opinions doesn't mean it is a rest home or a good environment for
left wingers. Everyone gets to contribute.

and the previous poster should end his concept of trying to "manage" or be a "spokesman" for the contributors. He has
on occaision questioned why some people are
allowed to post, despite him not wanting them to do so.

"And, you wrote this, which is, mutatis mutandis, pretty much the same thing as calling people NDP hacks."

Quote:
BC Boy: The Tyee used to be good with constructive balanced debate a few years ago, but is going downhill with poor quality articles taking up space on subjects that don't have much meaning such as Ralston's going on about alternative names for the HST Bill, but there is no mention of what his party would do as an alternative."

Big difference in being a left winger, and being an NDP Hack. A 'hack' in any party is one who gets paid to do the political work. A left winger is one who adheres to the left side of the political spectrum.
Big difference.

"Would you care to go back to the era of Ron Erwin?"

Who the hell is he?

"Fact is, ny friend, kootenay has you dead to rights and so does Frank."

Well I'm not particularly interested in
what "kootenay" nor "Frank" have in regards
to opinions on rights. The fact remains that no one have any more rights than
anyone else who contributes here. There is
no special privilege, no special treatment, every one is the same when it comes to contributions.

"If you really wanted better commentary, the best thing you could do is stop your copy and paste hijinks and tell us what YOU think."

Why? The premise here is to analyse opinions, and I've already stated my distaste for Ralston's antics as reported
in this article. My thinking?

The NDP should end the silly politiking and
just come up with either repealing the HST
or rescinding it to 0.01%, otherwise they
will end up being hypocrites like the federal Liberals did with the GST.

The NDP has a bad habit of being critical but rarely come up with workable solutions.

The BC Liberals were the same way in Opposition, they were terrible as an Opposition party, much worse than they are
being a governing party, which is bad as it is.

This has been spun around long enough.

The NDP needs to get going on solutions as to how they would correct perceived problems with the HST, since they won't be
able to defeat its passing.

Get on with it.

Quotes

Here are some quotes from a couple of articles.

"And even today he should look and listen, but he won't learn too much now because the Maritime provinces now have the biggest, healthiest, and wealthiest underground economy thriving in Canada. All because of yet another tax." at

http://www2.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/story.html?id=504e24f2-c37a-4f55-926d-d03868f36e94

"Vander Zalm described Quebec as "the smartest province in the country" because it would only adopt the HST under the condition that the province collects the taxes before turning the revenue over to Ottawa."

http://www2.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/news/story.html?id=176917cc-38c1-47c1-b4a5-e10b1c310124

BC Liberals just don't get it

The NDP is NOT in power.

The BC LIBERALS are.

Criticizing the opposition instead of the actual authors of this policy is stupid and a pointless waste of time.

The fact of the matter is that BC Liberal policy with respect to the HST is flawed, poorly planned and hastily adopted. Hansen and Campbell are desperate for cash because they've bled the treasury already – and not just through the Olympic drunk. Instead of enhancing the government's ability to respond to a financial crisis they have surrendered the province's room to maneuver, sacrificed our fiscal framework to the federal government and mortgaged our future - through extensive P3 financing arrangements - to private corporate interests.

Can you imagine what kind of hay W.A.C. Bennett would have made of the actions of this drunken driver Premier?

NDP needs to get movin'.

The NDP is NOT in power.

The BC LIBERALS are. "

No kidding. The NDP will need alot to
get themselves into power even though the opportunity will most likely present itself in 2013. To jsut wait and not really come up with anything for the voters
in 2013 is a dumb way to go.

"Criticizing the opposition instead of the actual authors of this policy is stupid and a pointless waste of time."

Well if the opposition would balance off
their opposition with a workable solution
offered to the public, it isn't a waste of time. It comes down to "not repeatedly
stating what the problem is, but rather
acknowledging the problem, and moving to
come up with a workable solution". Hence
the NDP has two options. Either state
they will repeal the HST 100%, OR state
they will reduce the HST percentage to
a miniscule amount to reduce its affects
on the population that they want additional
votes from.

In simple terms, we know what the potential
problem is. No need to keep spinning that wheel. Need to figure out how to get movin.

"The fact of the matter is that BC Liberal policy with respect to the HST is flawed, poorly planned and hastily adopted. Hansen and Campbell are desperate for cash because they've bled the treasury already – and not just through the Olympic drunk. Instead of enhancing the government's ability to respond to a financial crisis they have surrendered the province's room to maneuver, sacrificed our fiscal framework to the federal government and mortgaged our future - through extensive P3 financing arrangements - to private corporate interests."

No kidding.

Can you imagine what kind of hay W.A.C. Bennett would have made of the actions of this drunken driver Premier?

Does the previous poster have any real need to relate repeatedly to the drunk driver outcome?

It was decided in both 2005 and 2009, that despite Campbell's dumb ass drunk driving that the people awarded him second and third terms respectively.

The NDP did not win those two elections, despite having every opportunity to do so.

What does that tell the previous poster?

Extra, Extra Read All About It...

Nova Scotia NDP government to increase HST from 13% to 15% tomorrow.

Nova Scotia NDP government to permanently slash civil service by 10% tomorrow.

Now there is an NDP guvmint in action!

Here in BC, the NDP calls the $1.6 billion HST funding from Ottawa a "bribe". Well then - have some principle and backbone and repay the "bribe" and rescind the HST - simple as that! (if ya ever form guvmint)

Naw, the BC NDP doesn't wanna either rescind the HST or repay the "bribe". Cool election plank going into 2013. :D

As Sean Holman from PublicEyeOnline stated today:

No kidding.

Again, let's get on with Gordo's resignation in 2011, have him replaced by either Dianne Watts or Carole Taylor and let the BC NDP twist in the wind for another decade until they decide what they actually stand for.

Perhaps Carole James will also be a permanent fixture as BC NDP leader. ;)

More evidence for the prosecution

Some Tyee Posters are not interested in actually debating the record of the government responsible for the HST...even when given the opportunity.

[OFFENSIVE COMMENTS REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

And, yes, it is important to always compare the current leader of the Opposition with the DUI Premier.

What's there to debate? Where's the NDP.

"Some Tyee Posters are not interested in actually debating the record of the government responsible for the HST...even when given the opportunity."

What's there to debate? That has already
happened. Done. The contention now is to
see what the NDP will do in response to
this HST issue.

"And dot Luke (luke skywalker): Why would anyone even read ANYTHING written by a man who appears here (although banned for egregious behavior and rules violations) under yet another alias."

The previous poster did, obviously.

"Still not a single sentence of substantive comment or analysis from either of the Katzenjammer Kids of disinformation."

We're still waiting from the previous poster and his associates.

"And, yes, it is important to always compare the current leader of the Opposition with the DUI Premier."

Only to one previous poster, many (including those who voted in the 2005
and 2009 election) have moved on from that particular issue.

Time to see what the NDP does. Who is the
actual representative to opposition to the HST here? VanderZalm or Carole James?

Seems to me VanderZalm with all of his trademark publicity hounding is doing much better at it than James is.

Let's mention - one more time

A FEW FACTS:

1. The BC Liberals are in power.
2. Criticizing them is NOT A POLITICAL ACT
3. The suggestion that the NDP has anything whatever to do with what anonymous poster write on this news site (which is not a BLOG) is absurd.
4. Campbell is right at the bottom of popularity measures of premiers in this country - the idea that people have moved on relative to his record of criminality is hardly a given. In fact, apart from a few anonymous posters here who seem pretty sanguine about Campbell's history, there's no evidence that anyone has moved on. In fact, quite the contrary.
5. The suggestion that VanderZalm or Tieleman are being pushed or pulled by the Opposition in this province is absurd.

A final time.

"1. The BC Liberals are in power."

No kidding.

"2. Criticizing them is NOT A POLITICAL ACT"

They are political representatives, so
criticizing them regarding their political activities is a political act.

"3. The suggestion that the NDP has anything whatever to do with what anonymous poster write on this news site (which is not a BLOG) is absurd."

Correct.

"4. Campbell is right at the bottom of popularity measures of premiers in this country - the idea that people have moved on relative to his record of criminality is hardly a given."

It is, since he and his party were succesfully elected in last year's election. Every party, every leader goes
through downturns in popularity. People
have moved on from his DUI except for those
who still want to hang on to it.

"In fact, apart from a few anonymous posters here who seem pretty sanguine about Campbell's history, there's no evidence that anyone has moved on.
In fact, quite the contrary."

It hasn't come up in many discussions in
the news for several years, other than those who use it in opinion columns. It
was not a fact during the provincial election last year.

"5. The suggestion that VanderZalm or Tieleman are being pushed or pulled by the Opposition in this province is absurd."

Of course it is. They're actually doing
better at that task than the NDP is.

What's comical is a left wing politico
such as Tieleman teaming up with a right wing politico such as VanderZalm. The
respective parties represented by these two gentleman were at virtually political civil war against each other previously.

This will definately be fun to watch.

Then after this comical excercise is over,and VanderZalm once again disappears,
then we should be able to see what it is exactly the NDP's position on the HST is other than wasting taxpayer money on presenting creative titles to Bills introduced into the House.

Time to move on.

let the liberals get rid of there own tax grab

why dont the liberals get rid of there own tax grab? simply put the bc liberals dont care what the people want or need or think. why did they have the lie about this tax?

bc boy said-"The NDP should end the silly politiking and
just come up with either repealing the HST
or rescinding it to 0.01%, otherwise they
will end up being hypocrites like the federal Liberals" whats does that make the bc liberals who've lied about this tax from the begining. do you think the bc liberals can that fact by the time 2013 rolls around? do you think by that time people are going to go " well the ndp wont repeal it, they have 2 choices-get rid of the tax and have to buy there way out of it from the feds or ride it out and get rid of it 2 yrs later" its obvious who would keep it at that point. seeing as the bc libs will always be remembered for bringing in this tax grab. they lied about it from day one whats to stop them from not only keeping the tax but raising it after 2013? all we have is the bc libs word which i cant see myself trusting anything they tell me these days can you blame me? who's more likely to get rid of this tax during the 2013-2017 the bc libs or the ndp? i dont even have to think twice about that answer. who's more likely to raise it during that time as well? how many bc liberals voted against this tax or have said publicly that they dont support this tax? have the ndp done the same? can the ndp get rid of this tax today if they wanted? can the bc liberals get rid of this today if they wanted to?

The actions of a government in power

The actions of a government in power are LEGAL - not political - they have the force of law when passed in the legislature. Campbell and the BC Liberals are the 'government' of this place - criticizing them is NOT A POLITICAL ACT it is a DEMOCRATIC ACT - the duty and responsibility of every voter in a democracy.

I'm surprised anyone would sell her or his democratic rights and duties so cheaply or think of them in such a facile and pointless way.

The rest of your pathetic response isn't worth the time it would take to refute it apart from saying that Campbell's deep unpopularity is very big news in BC Liberal circles.

Garth...

When elected, will the NDP repeal the HST?

It is politics.

"The actions of a government in power are LEGAL - not political - they have the force of law when passed in the legislature."

In a legal sense, but in the scheme of
things, it is political. They are representatives of a POLITICAL PARTY, and
are POLITICAL PARTY MLAs. All of them.

"Campbell and the BC Liberals are the 'government' of this place - criticizing them is NOT A POLITICAL ACT it is a DEMOCRATIC ACT - the duty and responsibility of every voter in a democracy."

Same can be said with the NDP MLAs too.

Remember it is politics they are in. We're
not talkin' them being at a forestry camp
near Nimpkish Lake.

"I'm surprised anyone would sell her or his democratic rights and duties so cheaply or think of them in such a facile and pointless way."

So why is the previous poster selling?

"The rest of your pathetic response isn't worth the time it would take to refute it apart from saying that Campbell's deep unpopularity is very big news in BC Liberal circles."

So why did the previous poster?

W.Laurier - NDP repeal? That's a new one.

W. Laurier..

Despite what the poster "Garth" will say,

Will the NDP repeal the HST?

They won't. The Nova Scotian NDP didn't,
and don't expect the BC NDPers do to that either.

Don't even expect them to rescind the HST
to 2%, let alone 0.01%.

The actions of an Opposition wanting power

"Campbell and the BC Liberals are the 'government' of this place - criticizing them is NOT A POLITICAL ACT it is a DEMOCRATIC ACT - the duty and responsibility of every voter in a democracy."

James and the NDP are the Opposition. They
are also exposed to the duty and responsibilities of every voter in a democracy when it comes to criticizing them. They are not exempt.

BC Boy/ W Laurier

As I've written too numerous times to mention:
I do not speak for or on behalf of any political party - I do express logical and economic arguments (which you guys simply ignore) about why we are in increasingly bad shape in this province because of the actions and lack of character of the current government.

I suspect your habitual tendency to deflect criticism of the BC Liberal government by referring to ancient history is occasioned by your embarrassment with the performance of a government you're obviously incapable of defending.

If you have questions for the leader of the opposition, you should send them to her office.

If I were a supporter of the Campbell government I think I could do a better job of defending their record than you guys do - what's with that?

But then, it is a bit of a bad deal when the ‘leader’ of your party is a convicted drunk, isn’t it?

After all, even Brian Mulroney's Cabinet ministers knew when it was time to resign.

Come on, Garth

Garth, weren't you working for the NDP last election?

As for the present government's performance, the voters can make their judgement in May of 2013.

Finally, Garth, the whole argument is rather silly since the NDP in this province fully intends to keep the HST if and when it is elected.

Simple answer= NO

More complicated answer, even if I was, it's none of your business and it has nothing whatever to do with this question.

It's your argument - you decide whether it's silly or not - I think it's completely Lame.

If BC got the government it deserved the first thing that would be instituted is a rollback of the tax breaks Campbell gave his rich buddies in 2001.

NDP inaction

As I've written too numerous times to mention:"

So why bother? The above statement seems
to be self-serving. "Written too many times" might indicate there is too much
importance placed on contributing to an on-line news media site.

"I do not speak for or on behalf of any political party - I do express logical and economic arguments (which you guys simply ignore) about why we are in increasingly bad shape in this province because of the actions and lack of character of the current government."

Disagree there. There seems to be a common alignment with the previous poster's contributions. It is far from balanced
(to wit: the repetition of the DUI incident
which is not applicable to the debate on the HST)

As for speaking on bealf of a political
party, I also do not.

"I suspect your habitual tendency to deflect criticism of the BC Liberal government by referring to ancient history is occasioned by your embarrassment with the performance of a government you're obviously incapable of defending."

Incorrect. There's always a balance in critical comment. The NDP has not done an
adequate job of being Opposition, and should be pointed out. As for ancient history, the previous poster has contributed to that aspect and not ending it.

I am not here to defend the BC Liberals, they have people who can do that for them.

"If you have questions for the leader of the opposition, you should send them to her office."

The previous poster can send questions to
the leader of the governing party if he so chooses.

If I were a supporter of the Campbell government I think I could do a better job of defending their record than you guys do - what's with that?"

I am not a support of the Campbell government and never have been. If the previous poster wishes to be a support of
the government, he is more than entitled to, if he so wishes.

"But then, it is a bit of a bad deal when the ‘leader’ of your party is a convicted drunk, isn’t it?"

Again, the previous poster is referring to ancient history, something that is not applicable to the current debate on the HST.

"After all, even Brian Mulroney's Cabinet ministers knew when it was time to resign."

Many did not, in fact a few kept on going.

But Mulroney is not part of the current HST debate.

The apparent inaction of the NDP as an Opposition to the HST is part of the current debate. It has reached the mainstream media. Why not here?

Intriguing

"More complicated answer, even if I was, it's none of your business and it has nothing whatever to do with this question."

Interesting. Thge previous poster accuses
me of being a Liberal supporter yet he has not confessed to his support origins. Of course he does not have to, just as others are not required to.

"If BC got the government it deserved the first thing that would be instituted is a rollback of the tax breaks Campbell gave his rich buddies in 2001."

Sounds like a supporter of the NDP if anything. The Conservatives nor Greens had
any policy in regards to that subject to the degree exhibited here by a previous poster.

The term "rich buddies" is also intriguing.

But again this does come back to the HST
and the NDP's current positioning within the scope of the subject. It appears the forces led by VanderZalm and BT are much better at it than the NDP even though they are Opposition.

Count the words, count the posts - BC Boy

It's pretty obvious who has the verbal diarrhea!

Furthermore, editors

I'll repost what I wrote on another thread, perhaps someone will actually read it.

It's perfectly fine to call anyone who disagrees with the government 'an NDP hack'; one of the 'FAITHFUL' or any one of a long number of derogatory labels...and yet you'd edit someone who replies in kind?

What kind of an enforcement policy of the rules is that? Dot Luke/luke skywalker slanders Rod Smelser and is subsequently banned; he later returns to continue his merry ways under a new alias. I know people have written you privately about this and still nothing is done. In fact, those private letters have not been answered.

Meanwhile W Laurier and BC Boy troll these threads day after day - what gives?

Fuck you Luke!

Yes indeed, Quebec is raising their provincial tax(the pst portion) to 9.5%...

Nova Scotia is raising their Provincial tax to 10%...

So how come the HST provinces are flat broke,isn`t that HST working for them?

Quebec,the poorest province,debt to GDP is over 53%...Number 2..3...4 are the Atlantic Canada provinces..

So how is it the HST Provinces are all broke?

What about the jobs,what about all the corporate head offices locating in those provinces...

The HST is a FRAUD...You hear me Beers,Luke,BC Boy..Whifferd,it`s a fraud..

Jack Mintz is a bold-faced flip-flopper.

Colin Hansen and Gordon Campbell are habitual liars,Carole Taylor ain`t coming back..Dianne Watts,phhh..Good luck with that,I dare Dianne Watts to throw her hat in the ring.

The only thing that none of you have figured out yet is this...

We aren`t getting $1.6 billion dollar federal bribe for adopting the HST...

We have already been paid for the hst bribe in Ottawa picking up Olympic security costs...That and infrastructure money...

Why do think the BC government isn`t taking any money this year?

Just like the $1 billion dollar BC rail sale...the truth is the BC Government gave $560 million in tax breaks related to the sale,add in executive compensation to BC Rail CEOs and the never ending court case and there is no money left....

Harper is broke,Campbell is broke,the HST bribe has been spent,it went to olympic security...Answer that question Colin Hansen..WHERE IS OUR HST BRIBE MONEY?

When will we receive all off it?

How much of the HST bribe went to the Olympic security cost?

When you answer those questions,you will realize that the HST deal with Ottawa was started while negotiating Olympic security costs.

Cheers

EDITORS/MODERATORS

Going through this thread, two posters here continue to play childish antics, which has nothing whatever to do with the thread topic. These two posters are G West and BC Boy. I mean What the Hell? Just look at G West's numerous edited contributions -
[ABUSIVE COMMENT DIRECTED AT ANOTHER COMMENTER REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

[I REPEAT: ABUSIVE COMMENT DIRECTED AT ANOTHER COMMENTER REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

[OFFENSIVE COMMENTS REMOVED. -MODERATOR.]

Same with BC Boy. I am just sick and tired of reading the childish crap of these guys in every thread. GET RID OF BOTH OF THESE GUYS NOW - PRONTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HST bribe not paid?

You see folks,after our last election Colin Hansen stated the BC Government would be grabbing up $750 million in HST bribe money...

But that has been cancelled, Gordon Campbell instead scooped up $750 million from ICBC, yet our debt figure hasn`t changed...

Not taking the $1.6 billion in HST bribe money is costing BC tens and tens of millions in interest,yey the whole Olympic security cost and who pays has never been explained,in other words Did Colin Hansen agree to the HST while negotiating who pays for Olympic security...That friends is when the HST deal went dowm(IMO)...

So now comes the confusion, money going back and forth between Ottawa and BC...

Yet BC should have been paid $1.6 billion dollars but now we are taking only $250 million dollars of the bribe,when theactual fact of the matter is we have already been paid through Olympic security....

There is no $1.6 billion coming....That figure has been dwindled down to nothing.

That is when Campbell went to plan B...Scoop everything out of ICBC...Where was that mentioned after the election,a near billion dollar scoop of cash that wasn`t even mentioned...

And that is the same amount as was reported that we would be receiving this year from the federal HST bribe...

So now we get nothing from the feds and $750 million gets scooped from ICBC...

Show us the money Colin Hansen,show us the MOU as too the HST deal...From first payment from Ottawa to the last payment...

Account for the $1.6 billion dollars...

You will find that there is no paperwork,the HST deal was predicated on Olympic security bill and who pays.

Smoke and mirrors,the money was spent before there was a legislative act...Well Harper,Flaherty...Where is our money?

Matt T

Y'know Matt, funny thing about those edits.

I keep a copy of anything I write here that might be in the least offensive.

However, I didn't keep a copy of either of those originals so I'm mystified to know why they were redacted.

Sorry if I offended you though.

I might, however, suggest you undertake a little test. Copy and paste everything BC Boy has posted on this story into your word processor; then do the same thing with G West's words.

Then, just for fun, do a word count.

Cheers.

G West

From David Beers in another thread and it's about time -

"GWest if you don't agree with the moderating and Tyee rules,,,
then you are asking us to remove you from the threads. The rules are simple. No personal insults, libel, racism, sexism, homophobia. A lot of what causes you to be angry at us are comments that might seem rude, but don't cross those lines. Yours, however, regularly do, by leveling snide and sarcastic insults at various commenters. It's not a question of ideology, it's one of civility, and agreeing to abide by simple rules. If you can't we will block you, I am sorry to say. The patience of myself and other Tyee moderators is wearing very thin, and it's only fair that I should let you know that this is our consensus."

Matt T

I wouldn't start cheering yet. All G West has to do is start a new account called ".G West" and he can continue to post.

Or maybe "G East"?

"G North"?

"G Whillikers"?

BC Boy

You didn't answer the question. Try again.

Concensous?

WTF is that?

.Luke...Cool hand..Luke redux...Luke skywalker...

Where were the moderators when Luke posted Rod Smelsers picture on the Tyee??

Where indeed,where were the moderators when Luke posted my real name on the Tyee?

BC Boy is a troll...Luke isn`t worth the time of day.

Luke and BC boy and others can say nothing but blame other decades,anyone who can defend Gordon Campbell is deranged.

That is not opinion but fact.

Gordon Campbell has blood on his hands,so does his MLAs and cabinet ministers.

At no time in history of BC Politics can you call a premier a habitual liar and get away with it...Why,because it is true.

I would rather listen to G West than see BC Boy cut n paste,or luke obfuscate and try and change the subject.

As for Beers and moderation, Beers is a wannabe intellect, he allows Luke to spew for ratings,and BC Boy and Wilfred,well,Wilfred is a charity case,a harmless slug.

BC Boy can defend drunk driving,defend lying and lump all politicos into one basket...

Personally I ignore BC Boy,there is no intelligence there,luke,well he knows what is coming, ride that gravy train Luke,it`s about to go off the rails.

HST,that is the issue,until someone explains where our bribe money went,until someone explains why the HST provinces are on their backs broke..

Until someone calls Jack Mintz what he is.."A corporate shill for cash"

Until the case has been made and proved, the HST will kill the Liberals for good,so for me,it`s a small price to pay,I look forward to sending my Canadian dollars to the US.....

The long hot summer border line-ups, leave home in raggedy old flip-flops and return home in new Dockers and a clean shirt,and a full gas tank.

As for moderation...Until the site owner shows some class, "welcome to hell"