Movie stars and athletes have been using single transferable vote to elect movie nominations and MVPs, yet critics of the electoral system say it's too complicated for B.C.
As debate continues over whether British Columbia should stay with its current first past the post voting system or move to a single transferable vote, ballot systems similar to BC-STV are already being used outside the political realm.
Although critics of BC-STV argue it’s too difficult to understand, nominees for various movie awards as well as winners of NBA and NHL awards are chosen using ballots similar to that of BC-STV.
BC-STV ballots would list all candidates who have chosen to run in a particular riding. The voter could either stop at indicating their preference for one candidate or they could continue to rank as many of the remaining candidate as they want. This would mean the candidate they prefer second to their first choice would be marked as “2,” their third preferred candidate as “3” and so on, numbering as many of the candidates on the ballot as they wish.
The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences also uses STV, or preferential voting, to choose five nominees for each category in the Academy Awards. Members of the Academy are mailed an award nomination ballot in which they must list the five individuals they would like to be considered for nomination within a particular category in declining order of preference.
This would mean the individual they prefer the most within a particular category would be listed first on the ballot. The Academy member would then continue to list their remaining choices for award nomination in declining order of preference as “2,” “3,” “4,” and “5.”
This voting system results in the five nominees for each category within the Academy Awards.
Preferential ballots are also used to select nominees for Gemini and Grammy awards.
Ballots similar to that which would exist with BC-STV are used in a number of non-political locations including the selection of winners for a number of top player awards within the NHL and NBA.
Preferential voting systems are also already used by the traditional political variety to elect party leaders and local candidates including the Conservative Party of Canada, the Liberal Party of Canada, the B.C. Liberal Party and both the provincial and federal Green parties. Many provincial parties also use systems similar to BC-STV.
To learn more about BC-STV, check out The Tyee series: STV or No..
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Skywalker
3 years ago
What?
A bunch of actors or movie industry types like it so I should as well. Give me a break!
Tom Hawthorn
3 years ago
Where to begin?
Let's take the NHL awards.
The balloting by the Professional Hockey Writers' Association is indeed done on a preferential basis, but there's no transferring of excess votes. As well, only a single Hart Memorial Trophy (for player most valuable to his team) is awarded.
Alex Ovechkin was a runaway winner for the award last year. He had way more points than he needed to get the trophy. His excess points weren't then distributed (on a weighted basis) to Evgeny Malkin and so on until we had two (or seven) Hart winners for 2008.
el
3 years ago
The BC-STV count
The easiest way to access the Citizens' Assembly rules for the count is at nostv.org. (The page numbers in the sidebar of the CA Technical Report, from which the rules were copied, disagree with the page numbers of the Report.)
The best example of the vote count I’ve come across--with columns of numbers, arrows showing what is being transferred from whom to whom, and a step-by-step explanation—is at bc-stv.ca. Click on BC-STV Counting Demystified and then on Vote Counting at 2.b) Vancouver Sun Example – Vote Counting.
Note: The fourth and fifth sentences of the last paragraph on page seven should read “Jones needs only 26/30th (0.87) of the 19/45ths (0.42) that he received. So 4/30ths of the 29/45ths is transferred.” See how easy it is to get mixed up?
Tip: Copy the pages. Transfers are easier to follow if you can see several tabulations at once.
gamedev
3 years ago
What do the majority of game shows use?
What do the majority of game shows use? Perhaps we should have a big wheel that a pretty girl spins, to elect our government. Sorry for the sarcasm, but "we should use STV because TV award shows use something similar" is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
I have a few problems with STV.
1. The count will be done by computers with very little chance any recount would be possible "by hand". Any computer can be hacked so the outcome would come down to "the winner is whoever you are told it is" no watching the count by the various partys, no way to know when the vote has been manipulated. I don't know about you, but with the Public Affairs Bureau constantly monitoring our posts to alert staff to write opposing/Liberal views, I don't trust the Campbell Liberals. Do you?
2. STV will possibly help elect party's that do not have large representation. I know, this is one of the points used to sell STV. When people think of these "grassroots" partys, they think of the Green Party, or a party that thinks schools and hospitals should be improved, which is great, but, the other side of that are extreme partys that no normal person wants to see represented in our Legislature, like racism based groups.
Trying to make individuals support BC-STV by involking how "easy it is to understand, a child can do it" does not aid the debate. The point is that the system is complex and can be manipulated. By the way, care to describe how the count would occur in a riding with 8 representatives, with 4 partys running candidates, in a few sentences? Yeah, gets to be a pretty long and convoluted explanation doesn't it?
Others may disagree, but i'm a life long supporter of the NDP and i'll be voting no to stv.
WHAT
3 years ago
Facts please: Skywalker
STV is a good idea overall, it will be a way for a third party to get seats especially if there hold a significant amount of votes. This is only a bad thing for the other more entrenched parties, might also keep them in check. To stay the same and expect different results is not common sense.
Even Yoda would have voted for this...Can you relate now? You spend a lot of time on a so-called leftist forum....Somebody getting paid or volunteering to do this. Why isn't STV a good choice? facts, experiences...anything. I will read it. I may not agree with it! But at least I will read it.
slim
3 years ago
Party insiders Bill Tieleman and David Schreck like FPTP
NDP insiders Bill Tieleman and David Schreck support the antiquated voting system because they have a vested interest in keeping First-Past-the-Post. If the NDP wins the election, expect to see these two anti-proportionalists working in the premier's office.
If I could vote in the election, I would rather vote for the BC Liberals or Greens than the NDP. This is because of Tieleman and Schreck's participation against STV.
I thought the NDP represented the interests of the "socially disadvantaged" in BC. By pretending to be neutral in the referendum and not making any comments about Tieleman and Schreck participating against STV, the NDP shows its true colours as representing some elitist group which pretends to represent the average voter.
However people vote in the election, vote for the Single Transferable Vote in the referendum.
If you are unsure about STV, at least give it a try. If you like it, great! If you don't, after a couple of elections, you can suggest to your MLAs to change to another voting system or switch back to the current but antiquated voting system.
Vote for STV on Tuesday!
Skywalker
3 years ago
Yoda? What?
Where did that come from. No I don't get paid and I'm not working for any particular group. That does not mean I don't have an opinion. I have said before that if there was a transferable ballot and we kept one-member constituencies as they are now, there might be some merit. As it is the whole thing is an abortion. You like it because it is the only way a few fringe groups could ever elect a member and they do this by polling 1% of the vote from a bunch of merged constituencies. Just because it is easier for them does not make it right. There are many better ways to improve the principle that every voter has equal political Influence than this abortion.. We don't want to try those but we want to elect one Green candidate and we think that will change the world? Really?
WHAT
3 years ago
slim
Why can't you vote in this election..
Are you too young, can't make it to the polls, too sick, what exactly?
STV is on it's own ballet, it is non-partisan....why are you mentioning any specific party names here! Are you getting paid to do this? Legitimate question. Hobby? Passion?
WHAT
3 years ago
Skywalker: "I didn't vote Green"
Skywalker:
What does Skywalker mean to you? Just a question?
you said "there are many better ways to improve the principle that every voter has equal political Influence than this abortion.."
What are they? and who is using them currently? And do you know how long it took to get to this referendum?...Vote it in, tweak it when needed. Or are you afraid to try something that makes sense?
You said that I liked it "because it is the only way a few fringe groups could ever elect a member and they do this by polling 1% of the vote from a bunch of merged constituencies."
I didn't vote green, but they did get a good chuck of the popular vote in the last couple of elections both federal and provincial. If we had STV, I would we would have more alternatives, fringe will always be fringe going forward. I would rather be aware of these fringe parties and have many votes they are getting... then to have them hide behind the banners of just two parties.
"We don't want to try those but we want to elect one Green candidate and we think that will change the world? Really?"
What other systems? Nothing will change the world more then trying...
Skywalker
3 years ago
Slim you advice to the uncertain
You said "If you are unsure about STV, at least give it a try. If you like it, great! If you don't, after a couple of elections, you can suggest to your MLAs to change to another voting system or switch back to the current but antiquated voting system."
That is really self-serving advice to give. Once you have it in place and people don't like it are you sure you are not going to fight tooth and nail to keep it and put the disadvantage on the other side? Don't you think it would be foolish to vote for something you don't understand.
Nah I think I'l stay with the imperfect system I know to the imperfect system which has the potential for being worse.
Skywalker
3 years ago
... and Slim
If Hallsor of Gary Lunn fame is promoting yes to STV I think I'll pass.
morechatter
3 years ago
Its Just Another Problem
I'm certain as the problem is more about accountable government because at present we don't have that despite promises of the contrary.
It dosen't stop dictators like Campbell from wheeling and dealing with the public treasury. So why bother.
As crime is going up, more will die along with increased job loses as small business goes under while you have someone who smells like a toilet serve you lunch. Only in BC.
http://www.forbes.com/2007/04/24/corporate-layoffs-costs-oped-cx_jot_0425jobs.html
morechatter
3 years ago
And of course Campbell is onboard
So thats a given that it isn't all that it could be for BC but rather Campbell because its the way it works around here.
Frank
3 years ago
gamedev
"I have a few problems with STV.
1. The count will be done by computers with very little chance any recount would be possible "by hand". Any computer can be hacked so the outcome would come down to "the winner is whoever you are told it is" no watching the count by the various partys, no way to know when the vote has been manipulated."
Computers are not black boxes where we can't understand what's going on inside. Code is easy to read and it would be obvious that counting votes is not something we would contract out. Elections BC would do it using open source software.
We should use computers only because the results will be given out faster but in the weeks following the election an official hand count would be done to make sure everything is on the up and up.
"but, the other side of that are extreme partys that no normal person wants to see represented in our Legislature, like racism based groups."
Yes, I'm sure there will be racist parties electing at least 1 MLA somewhere in BC. But as we saw in Yugoslavia under Tito, just because you don't allow those voices to be represented doesn't mean they go away.