Vic Journalists Turfed in Alleged Ad Dispute
Dispute centres on car dealership story.
Sean Holman had a doozy of a story Friday that has already begun to ricochet through the web.
Victoria News editor Keith Norbury was fired today, Public Eye has exclusively learned, two days after one of his senior reporters -- Brennan Clarke -- resigned. The firing follows an advertiser complaint about an article published earlier this month by the newspaper. In an interview, Vancouver Island News Group president Mark Warner confirmed Mr. Norbury's forced departure was, in part, connected to the complaint. "There were a number of issues," he said. "But that was certainly one of them."
Read the whole story here.
Two fellow journalists had already sent the story my way by the time I checked my mail Monday. And bloggers from as far away as China were talking about what it means.
If the story sounds familiar, it should. It was just over a year ago that another Victoria paper –- The Times Colonist -- was caught in what looked like similar actions. From Shannon Rupp’s Tyee piece at the time:
The story began July 2 when Vivian Smith, who has written a human-interest column for the daily since September 2003, ran an opinion piece recommending free alternatives to pricey attractions such as high tea at the Empress hotel ($54 per person) and the famous Butchart Gardens ($23 for adults).
...
On July 5 the paper ran a front page correction to a minor factual error in the story... Standard practice at the TC (and many dailies) is to print corrections in a regular spot on page A2, or for columnists to note corrections in their next column.
The same day, Editor-in-Chief Lucinda Chodan met Smith to inform her that both her contracts were cancelled.


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G West
4 years ago
And who was it the other day...
That wrote here at Tyee about the independence of the press and the effective operation of checks and balances to make the news objective and impartial? I believe it was that old Newshound GPL wasn't it?
Now would that be the same Lucinda Chodan who, as I recall, wrote to BCMary (on another issue of press reliability and responsibility) that 'she' would decide what was NEWS and what WASN'T.
Working Memory
4 years ago
Checkbook journalism is rampant
Reporters write for advertisers all the time.
The link below will take you to a current example (August 2007) that the Vancouver public doesn't seem to be too concerned about - yet.
It's about health care and the 2010 Olympics. Basically, it's an "advertorial" published to look like news.
Reporters and their bosses are getting smarter and changing their writing styles in an effort to fool readers.
There is an effective solution. It's called "adopt-a-reporter," as you'll see in this piece on OlyBLOG.com entitled, "Health Care on Life Support"
http://www.olyblog.com/
skeptikool
4 years ago
Unfetterred, it ain't
The whole media is bounded by constraints, some subtle, some less so. We, too. on the Web, but I believe much less so.
With spurious accusations, I have been banned from two message boards. There is abolutely no doubt that, in each case, the moderators were "got at".
There is no shortage of lobbies to offend, and no shortage of shills to run interference on behalf of them. Just one example:
On questioning the efficacy of card-shuffling machines, related to the game of baccarat, I stated that I felt that the machines were capable of delivering other than a random shuffle and that they should be trusted as one might trust electronic voting and tabulating, following a Florida experience.
Along with references to paranoia, one would have thought that I'd been caught sexually violating a nun.
It was shortly thereafter that a large gang of alleged casino frauds was caught after reportedly cheating a Canadian and U.S. casino of millions of dollars. It's alleged that their game was baccarat, and also that they were betting heavily on known outcomes. If true, clearly, the card sequence was known. This would tend to have indicated a false shuffle or "stacked" deck despite electronic shuffling.
If one doubts the temptation, at my local casino a baccarat bet of $4,500 (playing nine spots) may be made and is decided by the value of one hand - incidently, quite an expansion from the $5 maximum bet with which legalized casinos got their feet into B.C.'s door. At that, the same nine-spot bet, would have been $45.
There are a few in this medium who should certainly watch the sanctimony and who would do better, I suggest, looking to their own kangaroo court tactics.
GJW
4 years ago
Checks and balances
G West, I believe I said something to that effect.
But now it looks like the checks are the ones the car dealerships write to the Victoria News and the balances are all the publisher cares about.
I work for this company as a reporter/photographer. This incident makes me sick to my stomach. I am questioning my career choice right now because I can't see it getting any better. I went through this same corporate attitude shift in Alberta and now it's happening here. I don't want to go through it again. I just want to fairly and accurately report on what's happening in my community that people will be interested in. If that means spiking any story that could conceivably offend an advertiser, I think I'm about finished here.
I still think most "citizen journalists" are a bunch of axe grinders and busybodies who have a lot to prove to me before I consider them credible. But if good reporters and editors from my company are fleeing, and being fired, I may consider becoming one myself to escape the pressure of the corporate thumb.
G West
4 years ago
Thanks GJW - sorry I got your handle wrong
And I really appreciate your honest and straightforward take on what is certainly a low point in journalistic ethics.
The only positive thing I can see coming out of this - and that's doubtful at best - is that a lot of consumers who might have bought cars at Dave Wheaton Pontiac Buick here in Victoria will look elsewhere for their vehicles and make it known in no uncertain terms that Black Publishing is a very bad joke. I'm the last person who'd suggest Canadians should shop for vehicles in the US but, if this arrogance and purblind greed on the part of the new car dealers of BC continues...well, one can hardly blame them - these guys need a good woodshedding.
Thanks, and cheers.
GJW
4 years ago
Chill
A follow-up -- chill isn't new in the industry, but it is getting worse. A couple years ago I approached my editor with a story idea comparing the Canadian Tire flyers for our community and for the community 50 km south of here. I had both flyers in hand, and the exact same products were significantly cheaper outside of this community. I deduced that was because the other community has a Wal-Mart, and this one doesn't. The flyer codes proved my deduction.
As a reader, that's something I would find interesting so I thought it would make a good story. But the publisher spiked it.
I'm not surprised at the publisher's reaction, but I am getting sick and tired of being asked to write advertorial copy for "special sections" (does anyone read that shite?) while not being allowed to investigate the business practices of our advertisers.
kootcoot
4 years ago
Ahhhhhhm, our Ms. Chodan,
Ahhhhhhm, our Ms. Chodan, yep, that would be the one Garth!
Oooooooo, the power that drips from her chiefly editorial fingers - the wisdom and...............hogwash!!!
Another disgusting facet of modern "journalism" is the tendency for column inches to be filled with what is basically advertising disguised as editorial content - even "infotainment" is a notch above this, even though it is actually advertising or promotion, itself.
Or how about food reviews that CANNOT be critical or less than rave reviews cause only advertisers get reviewed - that really isn't a review, is it? More of a glorified puff piece posing as opinion/evaluation.
I guess that's why Marketplace on CBC and Consumers Guide (not sure of title) don't have ANY advertising........Mad Magazine never had advertising either, except for it's own publications - thus it was free to impale anybody.
GJW
4 years ago
Complaining
kootcoot,
It's a false ideal to assume that because a news/information source has no advertising it holds to a higher ideal. For example, CBC's Marketplace is ultimately funded by our tax dollars. That's how they get around having to find advertisers.
And it would be nice to exist without advertising. But would you pay $5 for your daily newspaper, or an online access fee for your favourite news source? That's what it would take. But people usually want their news now, and they want it free. Reality dictates otherwise. You get what you pay for.
Some papers and news sources have managed to do well informing readers and making money despite these constraints, but this article proves the atmosphere is changing.
BC Mary
4 years ago
Silence is golden but only for some people.
Journalists getting turfed for failing to bootlick an advertiser is one thing. Bad, yes. But at least it's an easy target.
What's more dangerous in the long run is the deadly deliberate avoidance of the hard news about things which degrade civil society, poison government, erode public safety, threaten just about everything we count on to sustain normal conduct.
There's a glimpse of one such issue surfacing -- no, re-surfacing -- the past week. Check out the story of Powder Mountain Ski Resort (near Whistler) which found itself battling a BC premier and much of his cabinet for their alleged theft of their Powder Mountain/Callaghan Valley proposal.
Because it's connected to VANOC, the story is revisited in the current issue of Business in Vancouver. Google Powder Mountain vs William Vander Zalm etc in B.C. Supreme Court for the awesome details. Old stuff? Never is.
If the original story had been reported accurately at the time -- and not silenced -- the issue might never have fallen into such a tangled mess.
The Basi Virk Basi (BC Rail) case has undergone a lot of the silent treatment. Like, tomorrow - August 21 -- is another turning point in this historic trial. Has anyone seen or heard mention of it in the media?
The August 4 CN train crash in Prince George was almost a case study of evasion and distortion. Never was Citizen Journalism so effective. People stood in the Prince George city park, on the banks of the Fraser River, filming the disaster then used YouTube to effortlessly refute much of what got published in the mainstream media.
So I think the agreed suppression of vital news is the biggest story -- the biggest threat -- of our time.
skeptikool
4 years ago
Unfettered, it is not.
The point re: the ad flyers, was well made.
If not the media, if not government, just who the heck is going to bat for the consumer?
It's always been, "Buyer beware." but that doesn't free those, able to assist in assuring a fair marketplace, from their social responsibility when encountering shady or unconscionable activity.
I'm reminded of an auto writer who, after being sickened by what he was expected to churn out, attempted some legitimate reporting of the industry. He was fired for his efforts.
Even in this medium there are those who will see you as anti-union when airing criticism of particular products.
.
dorothy
4 years ago
now, that's an easy one...
"If not the media, if not government, just who the heck is going to bat for the consumer?"
Oh, don't you get it? buying any big-ticket item is supposed to be an exercise in negotiating such muddy waters that you'll need a guide. You'll probably find, that if you truly can't stomach the idea of getting 'taken' and buying one of these cars/bikes/stoves/you-name-its, which will later be recalled for good reason, then you hire a 'consultant'. I am sure if you look in the right places, you will find that there are all kinds of people willing to shepherd you through the wilderness, for a fee, of course, but you won't be bagging an inferior product and look stupid in front of your friends, not to mention being saddled with repair- or refurbishing bills down the line. The whole thing's just another vesrsion of the usual lowballing: The freebooters will do anything to make it useless for you to try get a handle on anything. They want you stupid and helpless, so they can get more of your money, and they all stick together. When I was a girl scout I learned the most valuable thing ever: Frugality means taking good care of what you have already paid for. Soon as you're out there with your wallet open, you're in danger. don't buy anything you can help buying...
Working Memory
4 years ago
GJW re advertorial
You asked if anyone reads advertorial. It has been our experience that most people don't know what advertorial really means. So yes, they read it, and unfortunately they believe it.
The lines between editorial, investigative journalism and advertorial are so blurry it is virtually impossible for the average person to recognize the difference.
Before anyone takes citizen journalists seriously, cjs have to first educate the public respective of the basics.
Before the public will become even remotely interested in the basics, they have to feel a vested interest.
We've learned that the Olympics provides excellent real time case studies because of the condensed time frame and intense public interest.
We've also tracked for decades major entertainment and sport events, movie and book launches, and major announcements from car companies. For example, for our pharmaceutical clients, we tracked "Sicko" for over a year before the movie was released. Before that it was Omnimedia, and a bit before that it was 9/11.
We teach our clients how to recognize meta patterns in news media, and how to look a year or more down the road for upcoming news stories. If they can predict where it's going, they can leverage it.
It is naive to think that business does not drive the news. The difference today is that small business now has a voice too, and that is what news companies find so disturbing.
We're encroaching on mainstream news media's coveted monopoly and fracturing the market. Small business can set the record straight, and in the near future more and more will shoulder the responsibility to educate their customers. When they do, it will be harder for mainstream news media to pass advertising off as news.
Marketing is quickly evolving from an advertising centric model to one of promotion, which means traditional news models and revenue streams are directly impacted.
A similar upheaval occurred in the music industry and they foolishly resisted instead of reinventing themselves. Now all we're left with is Britney Spears. LOL
kootcoot
4 years ago
Not a Starry Eyed Idealist
GJW
You are being somewhat disingenuous by implicitly accusing me of unattainable idealism based on my previous comment. You seem to have the impression I had no idea where funding for the CBC came from. I will also remind you that CBC TV DOES have lots of advertising - that particular show doesn't, for what should be obvious reasons (likewise Consumer Reports and Mad Magazine).
Being supported by tax dollars, even partly, the CBC should serve the public good/interest. Of course so should the government in Victoria and Ottawa - and we know how much of a joke that is. Unfortunately, governments at all levels today are more interested in serving the interests of their corporate cronies who will provide them with cushy sinecures, down the road, while they are enjoying their gold-plated tax-payer provided pensions.
As to your example of the $5.00 newspaper, the price of most papers have been increasing almost exponentially at the same time as editorial content diminishes in quantity AND quality. The Vancouver Sun was arguably a much better paper with more and better editorial content when it could be purchased for a quarter. Then there is the more insidious aspects of "news management" that BC Mary alludes to in her comment above.
In all we are especially poorly served by the bloated results of corporate mergers and greed that pass for "media" here in British Columbia. I can't imagine the degree to which I would be uninformed and misinformed if I had to rely totally on the so called MSM to know what is happening in what is my province and world .
Working Memory
4 years ago
Sun Takes Generic Swipe
In an effort to inform the community today, August 21, 2007, The Vancouver Sun wasted editorial space by warning readers not to believe everything they read on the internet.
Did someone wake up in a Rip Van Winkle time warp there, or is it the newspaper's best response to what we've been discussing here?
Batgirl
4 years ago
This isn't the first time
This isn't the first time Black Press has shown its terrible editorial judgment. An editor in its chain was allowed to work even after it was proven he made up people and quotes. It was only when he wrote a letter to the editor (to himself, praising himself) that he left the paper. Be very wary about what you read and the pictures you see in these papers.
Here's what UVic thinks of the newspapers' owners. Local journalism is doomed.
Date: February 14, 2007
UVIC HONORS DAVID BLACK WITH DISTINGUISHED ENTREPRENEUR AWARD
David Black, who established Black Press as Canada’s largest privately-owned newspaper company, is the recipient of the 2007 Distinguished Entrepreneur of the Year Award (DEYA), presented by the University of Victoria’s faculty of business board of advisors. The annual award acknowledges an inspirational entrepreneur who has had a significant and positive impact on the global community through his or her business leadership.
“David Black is a respected and well-known entrepreneur and business leader,” says chair of the board of advisors, David Schneider.
Black’s publishing empire began in 1975, with the purchase of his father’s weekly newspaper in Williams Lake. With its headquarters in Victoria, Black Press Ltd. now owns more than 150 papers in Western Canada, the Pacific Northwest, Ohio and Hawaii; 17 printing operations in North America and extensive web publishing operations.
Working Memory
4 years ago
GJW - thanks
Thanks for sharing the Canadian Tire story.
It is unfortunate that you and your colleagues are placed in positions like this, but as you know, almost everyone who works for a paycheck is pressured to set aside their ethics.
Also, as you are painfully aware, the difference with reporters is that your decisions impact a large group of society.
I can't imagine a young person entering a broadcast or journalism course knowing that they would sooner than later be thrust into this position. If most knew this would happen they would pick another career.
Politicians also too often start out with noble goals. It's hard to stay honest, and for many unfortunately, impossible.
What's the solution?
The only way I can see to turn the tide is for reporters to keep pressure on their bosses, because owners of mainstream news media companies will not change without external pressure.
If reporters regularly resist, and even occasionally quit under protest it will impact their company's profits, which will cause publishers to rethink their business model. Unfortunately, the reporter who quits takes the big hit for the team.
My suggestion is to start talking more openly among yourselves. Senior writers especially have to start the conversation.
We used to think it was OK to drink and drive, and smoke, and hit children. Times change.
Thanks again for giving us a glimpse of what reporters have to deal with. Most people don't have a clue what happens on a personal level and behind the scenes.
It's a job, a paycheck, but that's where it should start, not end.
skeptikool
4 years ago
Very much about maintaining control
GJW:
I could not agree more. At first, puzzling to me was the apparent pushing by the mainstream media of a competing medium, even to the extent of columns linking to the blogosphere. Notable, was scant reference to Web message boards.
The reason, I believe, is that in their dialogue on diverse topics, the message board is functioning as the media should. While some blogs may be extremely successful, the vast millions of them, regardless of excellence, receive little or no comment.
Stump
4 years ago
it's a great system
fire one reporter... the rest self-censor for fearing of losing their jobs.
Stump
4 years ago
broadcasters of tomorrow
I can. The aim for many would-be media types these days is simply to get on the tube, or in print, or what have you.
The content they spew is irrelevant to them. Their background knowledge of the world is lacklustre and that lack of context makes them useless as observers of the human condition. Far too many are sad examples of the old saying "if you don't stand for something... you'll fall for anything."
Working Memory
4 years ago
Checkbook Journalism 101
They don't teach "spew" in schools where I come from Stump.
Most have to be coerced into stuff like that on the job.
Most young people are way more globally aware than they were five years ago. Correction, five minutes ago. It's exponential.
GJW
4 years ago
Slugs part 1
Part 1
Kootcoot -- I didn't implicitly accuse you of anything. I said what I thought. Take it as you will. The only point I was trying to make that CBC is not forced to rely exclusively on private advertising revenue to exist, like the rest of the mainstream media. It can afford to step on a few toes now and then.
Batgirl -- there are slugs in every news outfit. It doesn't mean the whole chain is corrupt. As well, the fellow you are referring to is apparently still working as a freelancer in the same community.
skeptikool -- not my quote.
Working Memory -- thanks for the encouragement. But you said:
If I put pressure on my boss I'll be out the door in record time wearing my ass for a hat. I can resist in subtle ways, or try and provide constructive criticism. But at the end of the day, we hold our nose and do the "special" sections and business "features." There's not a lot we can do -- unless we work our way into an editor's chair. Then we have some power, until like Norbury, who was an excellent editor, we get chucked for pushing the envelope a little too much.
But you're partly right -- it will take external pressure, but from readers. Write Mark Warner (mwarner(AT)blackpress.ca) and tell him what a bunch of horse hooey you think this is. Write the advertisers and tell them that if they continue to pressure the newspapers in which they advertise, you will stop frequenting their businesses.
No really, I dare you. Write letters to Canadian Tire, Save-On Foods, London Drugs, Future Shop and every major car dealership in B.C. and tell them that. Can you live without the products and services those businesses provide? Can you make good on your threats? Those businesses don't think so, and that's why they can throw their weight around.
GJW
4 years ago
Slugs part 2
Part 2
Sorry if this next part sounds harsh. But if you want someone like me, a rank-and-file reporter in this company, to take one for the team just so you can feel more confident in the news you consume -- and I use that word deliberately -- think again. I've got a family to support.
Besides, it wouldn't make a difference. This is the information age. You no longer read the news, you consume it, like you consume reality TV shows and Quarter-Pounders. You read an article and say, oh, isn't that a terrible tragedy, or oh, isn't that a great human interest story, or oh, isn't that a great expose, then you turn the page and instantly forget it. You don't really care about the people who work to find the news, report it and present it to you in a way that challenges you to think. We're just fast food clerks to you, serving something you want now and you want cheap. But you demand the highest standards. A few people get turfed -- so what, there's plenty of other news to read.
Does anyone remember the Calgary Herald strike? I doubt it. That whole incident shows me just how much the public supports the people who report the news.
If you want change on a massive scale, the only people who have the power to make it happen is you, the readers. Get writing.
GJW
4 years ago
Slugs part 3
And by you I meant you like the royal "we." Not intended to be personal.
Stump
4 years ago
Spew
Working Memory:
I see the copy that gets written. The newbies can barely spell, let alone put things into context. I really don't think they are that aware of the precariousness of our press freedom, or their duty as journalists to protect it. It's quite depressing.
kootcoot
4 years ago
It's just an attempt at more consolidation!
Skeptitool, you said,
Different media don't compete if you merge them all into a self-reinforcing mega monopoly (like say Canned West/Glowball). They don't care if you watch TV, read print news or go to the internet, but they try to keep you on their ranch, as it were, and rarely send you anywhere online other than their own site (i.e. Canada.com). Other than BBC, PBS, C-Span and CBC, I never go to TV station or network websites for anything other than program/schedule information. The very idea of going to say Faux News' website for an in depth examination of current issues is a way for a bulemic to save a lot of finger poking in the throat.
Say what you will about the CBC, but at least they produce dramatic shows that have Canadian settings and Canadian themes - not like that other great Canadian network that creates shows that take place in say Boston/Cambridge.
Stump
4 years ago
the CBC
If a publicly owned and taxpayer financed media outlet isn't the only insurance we have against media behemoths putting profits ahead of the public interest I don't know what is.
skeptikool
4 years ago
Truth may be dangerous to your wealth
Oops! Apologies to both on that balls-up with my misdirected quote, but the sentiments remain.
Tried to no avail to find the clipping on the fired auto writer - mentioned previously. So Googled: auto writer fired for telling truth
Here is one of several gems:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=4647
excerpt:
Quite a grabber for an opening paragraph - and it continues.
Working Memory
4 years ago
Slugs Part 3B - Self preservation
Exactly my point GJW.
We have to vote with our money.
In order to have impact though, we need a milestone event to generate awareness that has local interest and global reach.
For example, when enough local residents get tired of paying for 2010 they can turn their fury on the sponsors, who, in the past only had to worry about and manage the fallout from local demonstrators. Locals were always easily managed and it amounted to little more than the cost of doing business for the IOC. (For the record, I’m pro-Olympics with a twist - love the sports hate the business model)
Sponsors/advertisers make a killing off the back of the host community. NBC boasts that they sold advertising to almost 4 billion viewers at each of the last two Games while both cities suffered huge deficits.
Local news media refuses to connect the dots because they are the dots.
I agree with you GJW about calling advertisers out. You asked if we can live without their products, but thanks to citizen journalism and crowdsourcing, the shoe is moving to the other foot. Can they live without us, or more accurately can they survive mob rule? In the near future sponsors like HBC, RBC, GM, Rona, and the rest will think differently when citizen journalists in Vancouver start reporting nationally and internationally in real time about our 2010 experience. The IOC will also have a mini stroke when they see local CJ's reporting to people in cities competing to host the next Olympics event.
VANOC and the IOC will use local media to claim that criticism from the community will undermine the event. Bull. It will only make Vancouverites look smarter. If a pedophile is stalking the neighborhood the best thing to do is warn everyone. Don’t protect the abuser.
Olympics organizations create partnerships with local media in an effort to manipulate the host community and conscript volunteers. If news media companies had refused to manipulate the public in partnership with the IOC the Games would have either fizzled out long ago, or they would have developed a better model. One of our short-term goals has been to make it very uncomfortable for local journalists to report anything 2010 that ignores the needs of our community. I use a modified version of the George W Bush admonishment of "Are you with the IOC, or with the community?" It's a yes or no answer.
Pre-internet, residents and small businesses in Olympics host communities had no choice but to put up with local news media abuse. When communities eventually figured out they were being manipulated, their only option was to write a letter, but to whom, and who would pay for the postage? It's like chips, you can't write just one and expect results. The other challenge was that it was always post-event, so no one had any interest or incentive to dump even more money in an investment gone sour.
continued ...
Working Memory
4 years ago
Slugs Part 3B - Self preservation
continuation ...
Even though the crowdsource industry is not yet mature, internet critical mass and social networking are far enough along that Vancouverites will be the first group in history to have an opportunity to leverage Olympic momentum to their advantage. Individuals can now challenge local media at each step. And btw, we haven't seen anything yet respective of 2010 Olympics advertorial. It has barely begun, but when it does communities go ballistic. One U.S. city, tired of the propaganda, made it against the law to utter the word within city limits.
Local protesters who drive GM vehicles, use Visa credit cards, bank at RBC, use Rona lumber to build platforms and signs at Eagleridge, and who also naively look to local news media for help will eventually realize they are sleeping with the enemy. When they figure it out they will be unstoppable, which isn't a good thing because many are extremists. Hopefully though they will find a middle ground. The recent Tibetan/Great Wall protest is a good indication of things to come.
Most people don't understand how the local news media industry works or generates revenue. When they learn the basics they will think and act differently.
It is ludicrous that Olympics organizations partner with local news media companies in host regions. The partnership is rife with conflict of interest and completely unethical, but have you seen even one article in the local mainstream news about it?
So yes GJW, I agree, we should all write and YouTube advertisers.
However, some of us have been writing for a long time, and time is running out. Local news media bosses ignore us when we implicate them in the charade, and so does everyone else who is unfairly generating wealth off the back of our community. All they understand is money. Fair enough, we get it. They've basically said, screw me, screw our community, and screw you - a journalist with a conscience.
Unfortunately, media bosses don’t think twice about placing foot soldiers directly in the line of fire. We should all start emailing advertisers, and the mayor, and citizens, and most of all, write the business associations in cities that think they want to host future Games. They are all online and easy to find. All you have to do is look.
If we do this in Vancouver it will send a message to all news media companies and advertisers around the free world that they are on notice – Olympics related or not.
One of the great things about the Olympics is that it causes billions of people to look in your direction. Anyone can leverage the momentum.
Working Memory
4 years ago
Tech glitch re Slugs Part 3B posts above
I tried to create links containing too many words and it cut off the sentences.
Sorry about that.
Here's what I wrote in the Slugs Part 3B - Self preservation posts above ...
The recent Tibetan/Great Wall protest is a good indication of things to come.
and
It is ludicrous that Olympics organizations partner with local news media companies in host regions.
and
Olympics organizations create partnerships with local media in an effort to manipulate the host community and conscript volunteers.
Working Memory
4 years ago
Spew
I'm not sure what to say Stump.
Both of my sons and their friends seem to be more globally aware than I can ever remember being at their ages.
They all travel the world (hostels and bargain flights), and seem to have no fear of anyone or anything.
Their group all have good young careers, for the most part they put themselves through university, and they seem respectful overall, but you're right about one thing - they ca'nt spal wirth beens.
Not sure what happened, but then again they txt msg lk crzy & it makes cents 2 them.
Stump
4 years ago
Me generation redux?
No offence to you or your boys, but burning up a crap-load of fossil fuels so you can hang out with other back-packers who are only marginally different from you isn't likely to offer much insight into the Realpolitik which runs the world IMO.
zalm
4 years ago
Thanks!
...for a great thread! I was worried about Tyee lately, but this thread restores my faith! Excellent points all, and thank you Maurice for excellent suggestions.
I wrote RONA and VISA and others a few months (years?) ago letting them know I was not impressed with them supporting the Olympics, but it wasn't until you pointed out I had to show them how much it cost them as a customer that I wrote to tell them what they were losing.
Greg MecKenzie of CIBC Visa hasn't written back to tell me what he thinks of losing my $50K a year business to Mastercard, but Robert Dutton of RONA tried to tell me he appreciates my letter and my (former) ($2k-$4K in) business but I am in error..... .... GUFFAWWWWW!!! As if!
You're quite right. See which Olympic partners you still purchase from at http://www.vancouver2010.com/resources/PDFs/sponsor_partner_sheet_sec.pdf
and promise to write to them today! Tell them why you won't purchase from them any more, and the FOLLOW THROUGH!
Thanks all
squishy
4 years ago
The $5 newspaper? Fat chance...
Earlier on someone talked about GJW's example of a $5 newspaper if advertising were given less prominence, complaining that the Sun was a lot better when they were cheaper than it is now. Fact is, the consumer cost of your average newspaper hasn't gone up much more than inflation (not in relation to the original sticker price, but in relation to purchasing power; think of it like a cup of generic coffee, which used to cost around a quarter and now costs over a buck even at 7-11, never mind Starbucks).
And circulation revenue has never been the big dog in revenue -- more like 10 to 15% of total revenue, tops. That $1.25 or $1.50 you pay at the newsstand now represents even less of the newspaper's total revenue than it did when the paper cost two bits.
In short, an ad-free, privately-run newspaper with the same type of editorial content you're used to reading probably wouldn't run you $5 a day -- it might be more like $10, even after you cut out all the costs relating to selling, creating and printing advertising. The most expensive part of the operation is still the news gathering.
Problem is, as has been stated in this comments thread, news is increasingly expected to be provided for free, with little thought by the mainstream consumer that somebody somewhere pays the piper -- and can, if they choose, call the tune.
kootcoot
4 years ago
Profit Ain't the Only Goal!
Squishy, as the one who complained that the Sun was a lot better when it was cheaper, I would like to point out that you didn't really seem to understand my comment. I didn't say that the price of newspapers had outdone inflation, but you didn't even seem to notice or address my main point - the decline in the quality and quantity of editorial content.
As papers (and media in general) have consolidated, thanks to deregulation and more papers, TV stations etc. has become owned by fewer moguls, the number of reporters and editors has declined. We have in BC a media where you can read the Times-Colonist, the Vancouver Stun, the Province or watch various GlowBall outlets, but you will get the same reportage and same "news management" from each. Gone is the day of competing dailies with different points of view in most cities of North America.
And while the media moguls do quite well, thank you, each paper/station doesn't necessarily have to make a profit if it can make a significant contribution to the propaganda effort. A case in point being the rag started by Conrad the Convict, the National (p*ssing) Post, which loses millions annually, but still poses as a flag ship and succeeds in its mission to make Canadians love Stephen Harper and the Americanization of Canadian religion and politics and medicine and...............well actually corporatization, but corporatization or the expansion of the American Empire they are pretty much two faces of the same evil beast.
skeptikool
4 years ago
An amusing aside
While a newspaper's publisher may not be responsible for an ad's content, I should think there would be someone on staff to offer helpful advice.
A full-page ad by Lexus, in today's Vancouver Sun, points out five myths surrounding hybrid vehicles.
Myth #4 is that: You have to plug them in. "You'll never have to plug in your Lexus hybrid,,,"
There are millions of motorists waiting for vehicles that "you have to plug in." and see them as a plus.
Ironically, the picture accomanying the ad shows a wind farm that would help supply the "green" electricity desired if, and when, those plug-in vehicles become available
Working Memory
4 years ago
kootcoot
Much to think about in your last post.
We usually only track "necessary illusion" from a single subsidiary's perspective, but when a parent company subsidizes across the network they could use one as a loss leader, and as a contrarian perspective.
Even though it's a stretch to think it could go this far, and we haven't seen it, we're going to pay a little more attention to see if there is a pattern.
I know of an example where a book was published as a tool of necessary illusion (It was written in Australia and promoted in Britain through a large PR agency for the benefit of international media targeted at the Aussie market - Olympics 2000), but haven't really heard of anyone identifying the process cross platform with daily news. It's hard to think it would be cost effective, but who knows?
It's not hard to spot recycled reporting between The Sun, Province, and GlobalTV, but usually they are in almost total agreement. The Province occasionally offers up a contrarian view, but I usually dismiss it simply as a shock value tactic.
It's unlikely the average person would regularly "read" a variety of daily news publications, but cross platform is common, so maybe there is something to it.
Thanks
GJW
4 years ago
The $5 newspaper
Thanks Squishy.
And you're right, I was low-balling with a $5 figure pulled out of the air. That's about what I figure a media company would try and get away with if they went ad-free. That figure would leave the company bleeding money, unless they made significant cuts in staff and paper size.
But $10 is more like it. As you say, subscription revenue, where it even exists, is small potatoes.
Unless you follow the format of one of my favourite magazines, 2600 Magazine which charges over $7 per issue for a relatively small mag. But no ads.
As for those who think newspapers were better in the past, that's a fairly rosy view of history. They've always had their problems. Is Canwest any worse than the Hearst empire? I don't know. Canwest has a corporate board callling the shots. Hearst's papers had a megalomaniac calling the shots. In both cases, the readers lose out on the chance to read fair and balanced news coverage.
Working Memory
4 years ago
zalm
Brilliant zalm!
Imagine what will happen when more people in Vancouver / Whistler do what you did, and then they Facebook, MySpace, or simply email colleagues, business association and chamber of commerce members, friends and relatives around the world to encourage them to do the same. For example, I'm going to send links to this "comment section," and reference your post zalm, to parties on "both" sides of the fence whom I think might have a vested interest.
Social networking is growing like wildfire, and it is a trend that until recently politicians, news media, Olympics organizations, etc., have never had to deal with.
Lack of transparency means in part that they refuse to sit at the table and negotiate. However, if you interrupt their money stream you will attract their attention.
Corporations don't speak babbling brook, frog, or tree. They speak money. Speak their language and at least they will understand what we're talking about.
An easy way to put this in perspective is to read UBC law prof "Joel Bakan's" book, "The Corporation" - the movie is even easier.
The premise is to put the pressure on the "shareholders" of the sponsors who in turn will convince their board of directors that it makes good business cents to act ethically towards our community.
How do shareholders convince the BoD? They sell at the first sign of trouble. Who are the shareholders - possibly you, or your family members, or friends? Money talks, and when shareholders smell controversy, they walk.
All it will take is for one large company to step forward and say, "yeah, we agree, the model is broken and it has to be fixed," and the parade will start.
Getting the first company to step up won't be easy, but it is more than possible today using viral marketing strategies to spread the message.
Quite literally zalm, you cut out the middleman (media), and went straight to the source. How hard was that?
News media and politicians have conditioned us to believe that the individual does not have a vote. Not so anymore.
Action like this also takes pressure off the journalist stuck in the middle.
Thanks for the sponsor list zalm, I also included a list below that is not a pdf, which might be easier for some people to access.
Sponsor list;
http://www.vancouver2010.com/en/OrganizingCommittee/SponsorsPartners/Sponsors
Maurice Cardinal
Editor: OlyBlog.com
GJW
4 years ago
Anti-Olympics
I am sad to see this thread being hijacked into another anti-Olympics rant.
That is an issue, sure, but the bigger issue is the role of the media and the readers in influencing the way news is reported.
kootcoot
4 years ago
Working Mem and GJW
Working Memory
What's a stretch, are you trying to tell me that the Nat Post doesn't lose money or that all the Canned West outlets in BC don't tell the same biased story and leave out the same "inconvient" news? It isn't a stretch it is reality!!!
And GJW:
Hearst was a megalomaniac, indeed, but he didn't have control of ALL the media voices in any market like we see today. Even though he was able to influence foreign policy in his day ("Remember the Maine" the Tonkin Gulf bogus show of the day). Hearst would be rolling over in in his grave and trying to claw his way to the surface to operate in today's world where the Aspers, Blacks and Rupert Murdoch's of the world make him seem like an amateur.
The fact is most cities of any size had competing dailies, each of which had their own reporters, editors and even more (than today) different wire services to utilize. All this consolidation just leads to ongoing downsizing and having the two dailies in, say Vancouver, owned and operated by the same people with the same agenda and message to massage.
If I were to wander the halls of a Journalism school today, I wouldn't feel hopeful for the students I saw in the halls. Indeed I'd have to keep slapping myself upside the head to stop visualizing sheep being groomed for wool or meat.
GJW
4 years ago
Cynicism
kootcoot, why don't you do that? Walk those halls. I'm sure they would welcome the insights of someone like yourself who so clearly has a handle on the way everything works in the media world. Better yet, get a job as a journalism prof and tell them what's what. Otherwise, if you're not prepared to try and improve the system, being poisonously cynical about it doesn't do anyone any good.
Working Memory
4 years ago
kootcoot
kootcoot - I meant that it's a stretch to think they could coordinate the effort across so many platforms, and get enough managers to agree with it. I'm not doubting your observation as much as I am wondering how they can pull it off.
Like I said, we're going to look at it differently to see if we can recognize a pattern. I deal in facts, not speculation.
If you see a pattern let me know. We'd love to publish the results.
kootcoot
4 years ago
Poisonous Cynicism?
GJW,
I'm sure I would be depressing to the students at J-School. I'm not trying to be poisonously cynical - but I am trying to point out how poorly we are served by what passes for media today. Also I imagine it is very disappointing for J-School students who enter the program with ideals and then find themselves either spouting the Coporate line or unemployed once graduated.
For example, there was 12 0r 14 pages worth of stuff supposedly dealt with re: the BC Rail Trial or HMTQ vs. Basi, Virk and Basi yesterday - and that is just a listing of the various motions, charges etc.
Do you know what happened yesterday? Don't you think a trial involving the possible criminal activity involved in the sale of BC Rail is relevant to the citizens of BC?
Canned West obviously doesn't. Oh yeah and the trains keep falling off the tracks, this time in Quesnel, apparently closing down traffic in Quesnel for hours.....but hey no dangerous cargo, just a switching accident in the yard, nothin' to see here.
Of course if anything is important Ms. Chodan will see to it that we are told about it..........yeah!
Maybe I do sound cynical, but actually I'm just p*ssed off, I don't like living in the dark being fed mushroom food and being told that it is filet mignon..........
kootcoot
4 years ago
Canned West is a Conglomerate
Working Memory, Canned West is a mega-conglomerate corporation that is run from the top down - anybody who doesn't go with the program can find work elsewhere, like the editor and reporter in the original article above. What is speculation about that, and what is speculation about hearing, seeing and reading the SAME story, that proves to not be true, in multiple media, coincidentally owned by the same mega conglomerate.
Much control in the trenches on reporters and editors is done by self editing. Staff learn quickly what is acceptable to the upper reaches of management or they learn how to find a new job or profession.
Working Memory
4 years ago
GJW - Hi-jack?
The post you'r referring to GJW is a good real time example people can easily relate to.
If more journalists stood up to their bosses we wouldn't have to resort to this process and cut you out of the loop.
I'm not sure you're even reading what I post. Anti-Olympics? Where do you get that? I made it very clear that I don't want 2010 to go away. It is more than possible for the entire community to share in the wealth, like a few host cities have in the past, but thanks to local news media in Vancouver, it won't happen unless you folks get more backbone - like Brennan.
The post you claim is hi-jacking this thread describes a specific solution. My specialty is the Olympics, and it would be ridiculous to try to explain a specific solution in generalities. Placing my name on it gives it a point of reference, and what I would hope would give the argument credibility. Plus, by letting readers know where I come from indicates that I've spent considerable time thinking about it - years. David Beers told us a week or so ago that there are 300 new names on the newsletter list. Just because you and the central core know who I am doesn't mean everyone reading does.
Some people here have to remain anonymous for legitimate reasons, and I understand clearly why "you" choose to do so GJW, but I have nothing to hide or to be ashamed of.
Are you suggesting that people with experience and background should not post here?
I want local news media to treat our community with respect, which is precisely the reason Brennan Clarke and Keith Norbury resigned and were fired.
They did.
Take a page from their notes and act on ethical principle. It's good for the soul.
skip
4 years ago
same old saw
Having worked for years in the bowels of Black Press as a copy breeder, the Norbury episode comes as no surprise.
Editorial staff have always been considered expensive clutter. Insightful, informative and occasionally contentious stories can be pulled on a whim by sales staff and management. The reporter or editor who speaks up is fired or harangued into submission.
The social compact that requires the publisher be honest and forthright and report the news in an ethical transparent fashion does not exist at Black Press.
Black Press secures market share not by providing a good read, but by predatory ad pricing, to drive out competition.
However, the joke is on the advertiser: Black Press will be unable to produce the requisite readers due to shoddy editorial standards and their ads will not be viewed.
The bullies that patrol Black Press newsrooms cannot see beyond the tips of their noses. This could have been dealt with much more professionally.
What kind of company drags a 20+ year, award winning, honest, unflinchingly ethical staff member onto the carpet in a very public manner, and then proceeds to shred their character, accomplishments and ability? A mean spirited one.
I hope advertisers and readers realize the type of people they are dealing with. This episode has certainly turned many readers off Black Press publications. This should result in a rate adjustment. Advertisers should demand it.
skeptikool
4 years ago
Got at? Sometimes, but editors know the rules
From previous Tyee thread re: Similar attacking of the messenger:
I see, and welcome, this reporting as consumer advocacy - something the media could give us more of.
I can understand the Tourist Bureau's concern, because perhaps there really WAS gouging.
Despite a newsroom chill that probably remained, it would be good to know that Web discusion of the matter aided, or was even instrumental, in having the reporter reinstated.
Last resort
4 years ago
GJW, Unfortunately you are
GJW,
Unfortunately you are bang on the money. As revolted as we may all be at the thought that the "news" is for sale, the reality is that a week from now the story will be overshadowed by yet another RCMP thwarted "terrorist attack" and will be a distant memory. The reporter who stuck their neck(s) out however will still be unemployed.
You can write to Dave Wheaton and tell him your thoughts and/or you can boycot his 17 dealerships, his private bank and his insurance company whenever you decide to purchase, lease or insure your next vehicle. The fact will remain however that whenever he or one of a few dozen other local businesspeople decide they don't like a story they will still be able to pick up the phone and have the reporter and editor fired or transferred.
Baggerman
4 years ago
Whiners
The sad fact is our business just ain't what it used to be.
The other sad fact, and indeed it is a fact, is as long as corporate mentality rules and stockholders call the shots we reporters are a dime a dozen.
Quit all you like over having your idealism pounded under the hobnailed boot heels of management — you'll be replaced in a heartbeat and none will be the wiser for you having been a dedicated reporter. I know of what I speak — I've been in this biz for about 20 years and have seen the steady decline in true investigative reporting. That is partially due to management bending over for advertisers, but there are several other factors that contribute to the sad situation. Not least among them is the growing fear of lawsuits. It costs a paper an average of 15 grand to launch a defence — just to get it off the ground, never mind if it goes to court.
It is so much easier and makes better business sense to pay off the statement of claim at $5,000 or $10,000 than it does to pursue a case, even if it's a hands-down winner.
If I were a younger man I'd transfer to a more honourable vocation. Perhaps a lawyer, or politician ...
GJW
4 years ago
Olympics
Working Memory -- point taken on your Olympics-related posts. But let me respond to another couple things here.
Not at all.
I've dropped enough hints on this website that it shouldn't be too hard for a sleuthing citizen journalist to figure out in which community I work. If you can solve the puzzle, I believe you'd discover I try and do the same service to my community as Clarke and Norbury did to theirs.
I also have a backbone, although it is sore from hunkering over this computer for hours at a time.
skip -- If you think Black Press is bad, thank your higher power that you never worked for Bowes. I did, and believe me, working for Black Press is a jolly vacation compared to that experience. Working for a family compact of tightwad Frenchmen is something I don't want to do again.
One last thought -- despite all the wonderful group therapy we're accomplishing here, The language some posters are using -- "you people," "give us more," etc. (not to pick on anyone specifically) shows me an "us and them" mentality between readers and the media. The message I am hearing is that I am expected to stick my neck out to entertain you. And when my head gets chopped off, you (the royal "you" again) will cluck your tongues, go "oh, isn't that a shame," maybe e-mail me an "attaboy" and forget about me while I struggle to find a new career since I've been blacklisted from ever working in this industry again.
Last resort
4 years ago
Perspective
Looking at this story from the perspective of the reporter involved, it has an interesting twist that I don't think has been discussed.
The article in question didn't even mention Wheaton or any of the products that Wheaton sells. Although someone might travel to the US to purchase a GM and save a few hundred dollars, the focus was really on luxury vehicles where the price tag and hence the spread are much higher. As far as I can tell, the story would have minimal impact on Wheaton business.
Now what we are saying then is that not only are certain products and people off limits, but now so are certain issues. Dave Wheaton doesn't like the thought of people buying Mercedes convertibles in the US so that topic cannot be discussed. Does that mean that if Alex Campbell Sr doesn't want to discuss global warming because of the impact on produce prices that should be taboo now as well?
How can a reporter know then what they can write about? Chances are any topic is going to offend someone.
skeptikool
4 years ago
On that last thought:
On your last thought, GJW. You seem to be suggesting a shallowness that, I feel, is not evident here.
Along with what some may characterize as crap, the Web community contributes much excellent, unpaid writing and considerable investment in time and effort.
I speak from experience as, elsewhere, my loyalty was rewarded with fascist-like treatment. As we go to bat for others, it's important we maintain vigilance, also, against the rot from within our own medium.
GJW
4 years ago
Hacks and flacks
Before this thread gets buried in the electronic sands of time, I would like to keep in contact with some of you hacks -- current and former -- and flacks (ditto).
If you're interested, e-mail me at greenjaw(AT)gmail.com
G West
4 years ago
Last resort
I think it's a little more transparent than that.
Canadian car dealers - on all new cars - are not passing on the savings to customers which have flowed from the increase in value of the Canadian dollar - in effect they're gouging at best and indulging in a financial fraud at worst.
Clearly Dave Wheaton, who advertises in the Black Press, didn't like the implication and pushed back. Not only is Black press sycophantic, it succumbed to pressure in a clear attempt to allow a major advertiser to continue to shaft Victoria car buyers who had - because of the column - a chance to:
a) save money by going elsewhere, or
b) begin to ask some hard questions of a man who WAS considered a pillar of the business community.
That's what a free and independent press is all about. Not that one expects much from Black - as others have written.
The real questions which need asking now should be addressed to the other media outlets which have not, to this point, stepped up and run with the story. The general case of Canadian car dealers gouging has been covered on the CBC – elsewhere – nada. In British Columbia and Victoria I’m not aware of any traditional media outlets that have touched the story – have you?
That Sean Holman and the Tyee have dealt with it is in their favour of course; that the rest of the media have not puts them, in my view, on pretty much the same compromised plane as Black Publishing.
People have a right to know such things and the media have an obligation to cover them.
Working Memory
4 years ago
Fractured Markets = Consumer Power
A Fractured market is multi-faceted.
Some see it as a bad thing, and others see it as an opportunity.
G West wrote, "David Wheaton pushed back . . ."
Well, that was Wheaton’s right, and although many here think he's wrong because he tried to manipulate their vision or expectations of the system, if Wheaton plays this properly he'll have a group of people lining up to buy his cars who feel exactly like he does. His challenge is to leverage the noise he's created and find those who support him. It happens every day. It's called spin.
That's one facet of a fractured market.
Representing another facet is the Black Press. They also have a choice. They have to choose whether they can survive by partnering with the Wheatons of this world, and many of you might think this a ridiculous notion, but you would be wrong. Look to the recording industry for proof. There are many Wheatons to woo.
You simply find another flock or flocks. The only thing constant is change.
Consumers also have a choice. Retailers often despise the internet because prospective customers use bricks and mortar locations to test product, and then they buy online from the seller who offers the best price, delivery, and after sales support - most of the time though the decision is based solely on price.
If consumers are upset with "Dave Wheaton Pontiac Buick GMC Ltd.," they have a choice of either ignoring the dealership, or ... they can use it as a test drive dealership and then buy somewhere else.
If consumers are "really upset" they can waste his time, buy somewhere else, and then TELL Wheaton's sales staff, and also go online and tell their entire community what they did. (Consumers will feel satisfaction, but if they really want to throw a monkey wrench into Wheaton's business they wouldn't tell him anything and let him try to figure it out on his own.)
When the auto dealership industry, and especially GM, which has slipped to #2, see what is happening to Wheaton they will think carefully about how they do business, but again, he might have supporters within the industry, so don't jump to conclusions. Auto sales people are smart and they can easily turn a disgruntled prospect into a buyer even if you vow on your mother's grave to "test drive only."
"It's not the strongest species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." - Charles Darwin
Wheaton has to change. In which direction he probably doesn't yet know.
News media owners are being forced to change, and based on this comment section, it appears they also don't have a clue.
And journalists have to change because they are stuck in the middle of an angry mob of consumers who now have the capacity to call the shots - directly.
The difference between today and yesterday is that consumers now have direct access to each other. We talk locally and globally to each other, and we don't want or need news media to interpret.
G West
4 years ago
Of course
Well Maurice, here are my thoughts about that.
Wheaton has every right to push his ideology, pretend he's not stealing from his customers by refusing to pass on savings from the currency market and advance the subterfuge that consumers who buy their vehicles legally in the States are risking 'anything' except a smaller hole in their bank accounts. But if, as this case seems to indicate, this is just another action by a member of the British Columbia New Car Dealers association to avoid 'real' competition and stack the deck in their favour (You can find out more about their lobbying activities and their connections to the Campbell Government and the BCLiberal Party at Sean Holman's place too) by building on 'connections' in the "Black" press - that's something else entirely.
Moreover, given the shyness of other media outlets (the ones people still occasionally pay to subscribe to) about covering this story (not to mention what happened last summer between the Times Colonist, Butchart Gardens and the Empress Hotel) I don't have much hesitation saying that the inaction of 'that' press is every bit as irresponsible as Black's hired guns. These guys and their business partners are NOT fans of OPENNESS and TRANSPARENCY. They don’t like the light of day shining on the way they prefer to do business; and they don’t like it because they really don’t want to operate in a real fair and competitive environment.
And don't worry, I've let Wheaton know in most uncertain terms about what I think of his idea of customer service. Suffice to say, I haven't been shy discussing it with everyone else I know who aren't regular Tyee readers.
But, in the end, the majority of Canadians still rely upon an independent press that actually behaves with both independence and integrity - and that's not what we're getting. The internet helps as do ventures like this - but we're a long way from being out of the woods on this one. Consumers and individuals – as you’re fond of pointing out – have to start pushing back a lot harder on such issues.
Working Memory
4 years ago
Not Out of the Woods
I totally agree G West that the internet is just a start. It's not the solution, but it is a catalyst for change.
Companies like Wheaton make it hard for journalists.
Journalists buy cars too, and they don't have to jeopardize their paycheck to voice their opinion. As I indicated above, we have other options.
According to PEW Research, people feel journalists are complicent in the charade.
Journalists have to speak out in any way they can. Anonymous is good, but when a name like Brennan Clarke is attached to the story, that's great!
I do back flips every time I see a journalist state that they are being forced to do something unethical. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I know from personal experience how hard it is to take a stand when it jeopardizes your career and your family, and I think most people recognize the risk.
When you're being abused, do something to rectify it, or get out of the relationship.
Batgirl
4 years ago
Monday's "Black" Day
Victoria's self-appointed, (Black Press-owned) alternative weekly newspaper has succumbed. This week, on Page 2, lo and behold, is a full page ad for Dave Wheaton Pontiac Buick!!! Normally, it's a Telus ad. And of course, the paper that strives to stand up for the little guy has not issued a peep about the matter, which only proves how much of a chill exits. "Black" days indeed.
Working Memory
4 years ago
Business as Usual
Anyone up for a test ride?
G West
4 years ago
Naw, I think I'll go stateside and buy a Prius
Anyone who buys a car in Canada until the prices drop to reflect the currency savings and end windfall unearned profits for the likes of Dave WHEATON Pontiac Buick is, plain and simple, a party to their own loss. Every individual has an obligation to limit their own liability and negotiate the best contract possible - I hope enough people see this story and start acting accordingly.
But:
The problem is that without an active and an activist press what's really needed is, sorry to have to say it, government regulation to prevent this kind of immoral gouging.
I hope someone in consumer affairs and commercial relations - not to mention the Attorney General's Office and the Federal Department of justice is paying attention even as the 'free press' whistles off into the distance with a blank smile on its face.
Working Memory
4 years ago
News Media Inquiry needed
In response to G West's recommendation of having some sort of government regulation to manage news media, I tried in September of 2006 to get our stalwart political opposition to take a look at what I discovered regarding the 2010 Olympics and local mainstream news media.
I laid it out in incredible detail. I even researched a news media watchdog committee in BC (their name escapes me), and discovered their directors were also high ranking members of the real estate development industry, so I decided not to waste any time approaching them.
After hearing nothing from Carol James or Harry Bains except a boilerplate response of "thanks for your message," I posted my findings online and made a public plea through my blog for an inquiry.
Not a peep from anyone official to this day, although I did get considerable support from readers.
I still think an inquiry is needed, and if anyone has suggestions let me know.
If you're interested, here's what I published in September of 2006.
skeptikool
4 years ago
Need for subtlety long gone
The newspapers' need for subtlety has long gone, in my opinion, Batgirl.
It does, however, raise the question of ownership. Consider how much of most papers is devoted to the automobile and to real estate, to name just two - and with little in-depth analysis of both those industries.
As far as consumer advocacy is concerned, it's clear where this media's directors' loyalties lie.
G West
4 years ago
I'm not surprised
That kind of automated response is all I ever get from those individuals too. I wonder who sorts their mail.
The other day, over at Mary's blog, someone posted a report of a conversation with an NDP mla who claimed to know virtually nothing about the Basi/Virk case, the details behind the Prince George CN derailment incident etc., etc.
I'll post the thing in here...just for comedic effect:
I took your advice and started to ask questions about this re-designated track. The first response I got was From my MLA Charlie Wyse and he had forwarded my request to the Opposition Critic for Transportation David Chudnovsky. David said he had not heard this story before and asked if I could point him to the story. He is now aware of this blogspot and the Tyee which are the two main sources I have for the sale of BC Rail.
I think that some of the problems you have had in getting answers are that the opposition may not have known about this blog. I think they do now. And my thanks as well to Nelle for getting this info. I am still following up with more "detective work" as you put it. I want to see if the minister will answer the question of how this track got transferred.
August 10, 2007 3:09 PM
I'm sure Mary won't mind me posting it - it's public information after all - but maybe the fact these guys never 'read' their emails themselves says something about the way they see their jobs too.
I don't think we better hold our collective breaths. We may have to take out some DAVE WHEATON style ads...then write a letter to an 'editor' at Black Press ...before we get any action.
Working Memory
4 years ago
AnonyMEDIA PRO
Considering that so many "news media pros" seem to be reading this thread, you might find the following interesting.
Three months before I proposed the "news media inquiry" that I described in the above post, I offered to provide space on my blog for journalists to share their frustrations respective of the 2010 Olympics. I called it AnonyMEDIA PRO.
A few brave media pros confidentiality responded, but none would give me enough information to run articles because they feared they would lose their jobs. The challenge, as has been demonstrated in this thread, was that they couldn't divulge details without risking giving away their identities, and they were not even remotely willing to do so. And although I was disappointed, I completely understood and appreciated the situation.
My original plan never worked out. It was good on paper, but way more challenging than I envisioned.
However, what did happen was that a number of news media pros started to send me info and give me a heads up regarding specific issues.
My original offer was emailed to about 350 media pros including journalists, editors and publishers. Never heard a peep from the latter two, but news media pros still regularly send me info that makes it easier for us to keep up. So far though, nothing really groundbreaking, but judging from the info we've received in the last six months, I think it's just a matter of time.
However, having said that, about a week ago a news media pro sent me info that is about 4 months old that I knew about, but I glossed over and didn't put in context at the time. I'm going to now sit on it and release it at a more appropriate date, because even though it is no longer timely, it demonstrates perfectly how advertisers in our region work in partnership with local news media.
BTW, a news media pro is anyone who works in "any capacity" in the mainstream news industry, including radio, TV, print or web. I'm an equal opportunity employer. LOL
Here's the link to my original offer.
http://www.olyblog.com/f/06/MediaF06052006.shtml
BTW, I'm not doing this primarily to fish for cooperation from readers here, although it is a side benefit.
More importantly, I want to demonstrate that some of us in the small business community do fully appreciate what journalists are going through, and instead of just shrugging our shoulders and accepting it, we're doing something about it.
I also do not want readers to think that most small business owners operate unethically.
We simply want to be treated fairly.
Hyeena
4 years ago
journalists should know when
journalists should know when they enter their profession that ultimately they are answerable to shareholders. Automobile associations pay handsomely for ad space...so everybody -GROW UP!
Barbara
4 years ago
firing of Keith Norbury
While I understand the concerns raised about editorial freedom and freedom of the press from outside influences, like advertisers, I do wonder if anyone has considered this -- Perhaps the other issues of concern indicated by the Black Press spokesperson about Mr Norbury, who has worked with Black Press for many years, had more to do with his exit than the freedom of the press/editorial freedom issues. I only state this because I worked in the same office as Mr. Norbury, at least 10 years ago. I know I did not appreciate his temper and swearing in the production room, his anger having nothing to do with any of the folks that had to listen to and put up him. Everone else there at the time were quite pleasant to work with. Obviously this is only a comment from an anonymous blogger but I offer it because I think it is relevant. Who knows, maybe they were looking for an 'excuse' to fire him...
skip
4 years ago
re Olympics
GJW -- I have friends who have toiled for Bowes. One recently told that while unpleasant and prickly, most of the time, there is a sense of belonging and being part of a shared effort and endeavor.
At Black Press, editorial members are told by administrative bullies "don't plan on building a career at Black Press." And to ensure this, reporters make $24k a year, managing editors between $36k and $40k.
Meanwhile, it is driven into every editorial persons' head that they hold no value and are immediately expendable.
The long term goal has been to fill the newsroom with student, work-term reporters writing for by-lines, with one editor handling at least two papers each (65 hr work week) with duties that include photography, pagination, editing, reporting and at Christmas time and holidays, so as no bonuses are paid carriers, editors and reporters are expected to deliver the papers.
Even Bowes wouldn't aspire to such a ridiculous model.
Batgirl
4 years ago
RIght on Skip!
Skip has nailed it.
I too worked for Black Press and this is the same company that allowed an editor to consistently fabricate and plagiarize material. But the editor did what the publisher wanted, didn't offend advertisers, worked probably 60 hours per week, for yes, a chintzy salary, Black Press's management knew about the gutless, deceitful editor but did nothing. What does that tell you?
Innocent Bystander
4 years ago
Its all about power
Dave Wheaton and his dealer friends represent "old money" in Victoria. They are the guys who grew up here and have had family real estate and business for 75 years passed on down through a couple of generations. They hang out at the Union Club, Uplands or the Royal Vic and discuss how important they are and how much of the city and its influence they "own".
In the last 10 years "old money" has come under attack. Young guys like Jeff Mallet, Owen Matthews, Len Barrie, and a dozen others not only have generated more money in far less time, but also refuse to play the establishment game.
I was at a charity auction a while back when "old money" and his friends were making a show of bidding up some bobble when "new money" simply came along and doubled him up. The crowd was stunned not only by the amount paid but also at the sudden realization of how irrelevant "old money" had just become.
The point then is that Dave Wheaton doesn't call his buddy Dave Black because he is concerned that someone saved money buying a car he doesn't even sell, it is to prove that he still matters and that he still has power.
G West
4 years ago
I see there's a 'denial'
I notice Holman has posted a pro-forma denial from Dave Wheaton that he did anything the slightest untoward and that Norbury's firing had 'nothing' to do with him. The Black 'person' is on side too apparently and, from the sounds of it, very well-rehearsed.
Seems as if some of Davey's customers and friends must have gotten to him. Here's the quote from Holman's place:
"...in a subsequent email interview with Public Eye over the weekend, Dave Wheaton Pontiac Buick GMC Ltd. dealer principal Dave Wheaton added, "I never did complain about the article until I was asked (about it by a news group representative) and it was several days after it had run. My opinion was solicited and I gave it to them in an honest, straight-forward manner, in a meeting, at their request, in my office. They phoned me. I never called them.” Asked for comment, news group vice-president Kirk Freeman said Mr. Norbury's firing "is an internal personnel issue. And what has transpired had nothing to do with Dave Wheaton." In an earlier interview, Mr. Wheaton also stated he hadn't and wouldn't pull any advertising with the news group as a result of the story."
Nice to see everyone's getting along swimmingly again and that nothing's changed.
Until I see an announcement from the New Car Dealers of BC (and DAVE WHEATON) that dealers are and have been immediately passing on the savings from currency escalation to their customers ...well, I'll take everything Mr Wheaton says and Mr Black does with a grain of salt.
I wish some members of the MSM (who are constantly talking about how public minded qne concerned with the reader and consume they are) had enough jam to step up and cover this story.
Pathetic. [full disclosure: bold emphasis is mine]
Working Memory
4 years ago
Hyeena
You wrote above;
"... journalists should know when they enter their profession that
ultimately they are answerable to shareholders. Automobile associations pay
handsomely for ad space ..."
My question Hyeena is; Why, and as importantly, how would a newbie journalist know this?
As far as I know, unethical behaviour is not taught in school, at least not directly to be used as an acceptable process.
I might be misunderstanding you, but, are you saying that if I buy ad space, then I am entitled to preferential editorial treatment?
If this is what you are saying then you should go back to the top and read this entire article and thread again.
In one sentence you summed up what is wrong with local mainstream news media - they are biased.
You should also read this article;
http://www.olyblog.com/f/06/ShawLeeF09282006.shtml#MEDIASOLUTION
skip
4 years ago
forest for the trees
Hyeena wrote:
You are trying to put a spin on this that just does not work.
The story is about a vindictive, mean-spirited company and a group of managers who were faced with individuals with strong professional and ethical standards who refused to kowtow or boot lick.
Given the resources of Black Press, these managers - which include a former furniture salesman; a person who's editorial pedigree is found at an 8-page weekly Gulf Island "newspaper"; and a former TC ad boy - did what Black Press managers have always done to staff: denigrate, demean and dismiss.
Yes, a car dealer is involved and the goal has always been to compromise integrity and fool readers for dollars.
However, this is an episode seized upon by certain managers to apply their foot more firmly to the throat of employees.
Working Memory
4 years ago
Nothing Has Changed? Don't Blink ...
Great perspective in your "Denial" post G West, but when you stated "nothing has changed," and even though you meant it rhetorically, something has changed.
I'm going to use this article and the great work done by Sean Hollman at PublicEyeOnline.com to keep the ball rolling. The resulting COMMENTS here and in the PEO send a strong message to average business owners and news consumers.
The comment threads on both sites demonstrate clearly how corrupt the mainstream news industry really is.
I'm not saying that checkbook journalism actually occurred respective of this specific issue, but when two parties are involved in any type of illegal activity it is virtually impossible to identify what transpires unless someone rolls over. No one wants to turn in their crack dealer and vice verse. So for starters, just knowing the practice exists in your backyard is a great change.
No one should underestimate how important this is. When you can see how it impacts you directly, it makes a huge difference respective of how much people care. Now it's personal.
On the "long tail" no one is going to remember or care how the Black Press or Wheaton's GM dealership figure into all of this, but these two companies will be a catalyst for further inspection and change, which could be coming faster than they envision.
Secondly, no one should think for a second that the news industry isn't lurking and holding secret meetings about this specific issue (I'll make sure they hear about it in Gander and NYC - you can count on it). Everyone here should do the same. (Hint: Email is free)
I saw, and managed very similar issues respective of the music industry in the late 90's. Music industry executives pretended that they too were impervious and not paying attention until consumers decimated their profits worldwide.
The comments here are a BIG step in that right direction. Granted, the NEWS industry road is still long and more complex, but I know through experience how to give this puppy legs. Checkbook journalism happens everywhere, and once people know they are not alone they network.
Average consumers respective of the NEWS industry are currently ALMOST as naive as MUSIC consumers were in the mid 90's. All it takes are a few stories like this to spawn viral momentum. The trick is having it reach the right ears and markets.
As long as The Tyee and PEO keep their respective comment sections active, we have a powerful tool. That is also what has changed.
One last point; If anyone thinks this issue is important today respective of a local car dealership and news publisher, what do you think will happen when it is extrapolated to global proportions respective of the 2010 Olympics? This is but a thin leading edge compared to what is currently happening in the Olympics market. It gives my perspective regarding the Olympics exponential credibility and momentum.
Change is always only one viral step away.