IntThe third story in the Times' series

Is up today. Here's a link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/us/06civil.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

The other stories in the series can also be accessed at this link.

At the pleasure of the CROWN

Stop trying to rewrite our laws in the US's image.

We already have a law on the books that is blanket coverage for these, and other, such criminals.

He may be held at the pleasure of the crown.

This can be for both his safety (from vigilante actions) and the public calming.

The only problem with such action is that it can be 'habit forming'.

I dunno murdock

I've never been highly complementary about the way the US Justice system actually works - and it wasn't the only thing discussed in the 3-part Times Series referenced above anyway; but, it does, at least sometimes, manage to get their political and commercial miscreants into a court and they are, at least sometimes, found guilty of something.

Just learned about the verdict in the Scooter Libby case.

You can catch up here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/washington/06cnd-libby.html?hp

errata

that should be 'complimentary' above, my apologies.

Canada should and will feel shame.

The Judiciary here in B.C. showed us how the law thinks and functions by their incarceration of 78-year-old Betty Krawczyk.You can hit and run with a vehicle, rob, sell dope, grow dope, commit an assault during a robbery, teachers can screw little girls Stick a hand gun in some ones face and the BC courts will send you home to carry out your sentence, possibly, but unlikely an actual sentence. Does this have to be requested ? It must be, the last time I recall a criminal getting time was at his request. In order to incarcerate the repeat sex offender he will have to be convinced, to attend a protest or road blockage at a logging site, ski hill devolvement, etc, Have him ignore the courts injunction to not block , protest , or disrupt in any way. Take him on another protest, repeat the previous procedure, The violent sex offender is now a bonafide criminal. Only one problem the courts won’t act on him until he is 78 years old.. We must defend the honor of these two ladies Harriet Nahanee and Betty Krawczyk We should step back, take a second breath, then organize, or join an organization already set up. I did notice there are quite a few organizations on various sites.
Before the 2010 Olympics the world must be told of the astrocytes that have occurred here in B.C. with the jailing of these elderly ladies and The death of 71 year old Harriet Nahanee. The homelessness in our cities must be told, all the environmental damage must be told of, tell the world they will not be welcomed here, contrary , they will receive a cold reception, before and during this big farce called the Olympics. I have never , in all of my life felt so disgusted, what has occurred to these two elderly ladies here in Canada, is not only disgusting, its inhumane, Canada should and will feel shame. We can start the British Columbia, Canada “ Road To Shame’ today, now, with the use of our computers . Do let the world know what has transpired here, be relentless ,don’t quit or give up.
Make all those heavy real estate investors, the politicians, the lawyers, the judges, the bankers, that don’t give a sh!t pay and suffer losses, and they will, if we act collectively.

Lost in space?

That should have read,

?????

Who are you, and what have you done with woody?

zalmboni Im going to post a little treat for you

zalmboni some time tomorrow Im going to post a little treat for you and your alter ego Garf. Give ya little hint, it concerns the far east, no dummy not that far east, our east. Only thing , where to post it, and making the situation more difficult. Ive started coming down with the bloody flu. Guess it got around my flu shot. Anyhow I’ve been sitting on this little comment all day, but as you took on a serious note on the ‘Will BC Rail Bomb Explode’. I thought, why distract the two of you. Gotta go,Im sick, And no gossiping about me while Im off the thread. Good night all.

woody

Get well soon my friend

Frank

Psst, I heard that "woody" is from the Maritimes and speaks perfect Newfie.

Castration?

OK, this will outrage some!
Back in the thirties a rapist would have had the choice of 25 years in jail or voluntary removal of "the family jewels"!
Testosterone is the main cause of aggressive behaviour (ask the horse breeders).
A neutered male winds up being a useful member of society, while a released offender still poses a threat, so why not give them the choice?

DEROGATORY TOWARDS A PEOPLE

FRANK
Psst, I heard that "woody" is from the

Maritimes and speaks perfect --------
THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN DELETED FOR BEING DEROGATORY TOWARDS A PEOPLE. Frank, YOU ARE ON NOTICE TO KEEP YOUR COMMENTS SUBSTANTIVE AND FREE FROM SUCH DEROGATORY REMARKS. -- TYEE EDITOR

BEING DEROGATORY TOWARDS A PEOPLE

FRANK
Psst, I heard that "woody" is from the
--------- and speaks perfect ---------

THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN DELETED FOR DEROGATORY TOWARDS A PEOPLE. Frank, YOU ARE ON NOTICE TO KEEP YOUR COMMENTS SUBSTANTIVE AND FREE FROM SUCH DEROGATORY REMARKS. -- TYEE EDITOR

aaah sh!t, screwed my joke up

aaah sh!t,screwed my joke up, should never attempt a joke on the computer, when one is sick with the flu.

'what do you do with rapists

'what do you do with rapists who have served their time?' release them and watch them carefully, just as is being done now. if he violates his recognizance you bust him again, if not you allow him to try to integrate into society. what's the big deal?

8th wonder of the world

I agree with Elliot!

And woody, no problem, you had me going there for a minute :-)

is that a first frank?

is that a first frank?

Frank

I think that's a second Elliot, I dimly remember it happening before

Castration was not meant as a joke

Frank & Elliot. Frank & Elliot. Frank & Elliot. back and forth with silly jokes!
really funny!
I offered a suggestion, a possible solution. But that is obviously not what you guys are looking for.
Go back to kindergarten you guys

alive

The thing is alive, castration of offenders is beyond the pale.

As for me and Elliot my people are talking to his people about getting our own show.

hey alive; go jam yourself.

hey alive; go jam yourself.

oh really?

why pray tell? because you did not think of it perhaps?
Put yourself in the shoes of a man who cannot control his impulses, and consider if he perhaps would not prefer to get rid of his personal hell.....and avoid lengthy jailtime to boot?
for society it would be a win/ win.
but simple solutions are never appreciated are they?

chemical castration is used

chemical castration is used in some states. they use novo-profen to dry up the testicles. it's not always successful b/c, as you should know, these offenders are not always driven by sexual desire alone. often it is a need to dominate and be violent. the experiments have met with limited success. in canada this would never occur b/c castration would not pass the charter test of 'being subjected to cruel and unusual treatment or punishment', which is guaranteed in section 12. the lefties would go nuts, if you'll pardon the pun.

thanks for getting back to the topic!

Perhaps the charter needs to be rewritten?
an excess of testosterone is not that much different from any other abnormal function in a human body, and as such could and should be treated.
On offenders who ravage other people because they have too much aggression (or sexual desire, as you put it), it does not seem out of proportion to alter their chemical makeup, so that they are fit to live in our society.....and that is what this discussion is supposed to be all about!
Indeed what are we to do with people who are predicted to re-offend?
Taking away the driving force seem a good way to me.
I have met people who were castrated and seen that their lives became radically different, and allowed them to learn to love and care for people instead of abusing them.
We do alter the chemical composition of millions of people with other malfunctioning organs, and it is considered a good thing!
Why not face it that most violent offenders also happen to have excess testosterone in their bodies?
Why not treat this instead of waiting to punish them when they fail to control their personal hell?

Ya that's it

Ya that's it, its because I didn't think of castrating them. Come to think of it I didn't think of sterilizing the mentally challenged either. Wasn't that another great thing they did back in the 30's? And we can bring back capital punishment and the strap in school too.

are we smarter now?

.

It is all very well and good to be so "humanitarian", but the way we are heading is not the answer either!

It is considered smart for people with not enough hormones to get hormone replacement, and it helps! (for males and females).
So why is it so dumb to treat those with too many hormones?
why not think of it as one of natures little mistakes that can be corrected?
and, yes in extreme cases do a castration.

We as a society need to protect ourselves from people who do not control themselves for whatever reason, and prison is not the only solution!

Alive

Some things:
1. There is little evidence that castration, chemical or otherwise, will necessarily have the desired effect; check the research.
2. Would a system that compelled offenders who have already done their time be unduly coercive; I think it would.
3. Could you design a system whereby people voluntarily chose this option? I can't imagine how and...
4. Refer back to 1: It might not work anyway.

So, we're stuck with what we have. I'd like to know what the actual statistics are for fully discharged offenders (who are still on parole for the rest of their lives and must remain in contact with their parole officer) to re-offend.

One thing for sure, the current media-hyped atmosphere isn't helping these guys. I can imagine that such harassment would, over a period of time, even have a tendency to get some of these guys to submit to voluntary castration of their own accord. If they could find a doctor to do the procedure.

I understand your frustration - just don't agree with your solution.

But, if you can show me that this kind of recidivism is a huge problem, I'll consider it again.

For the moment, I'm just not that concerned - except for some of the media people who are making it an issue - they may pop a blood vessel over it.

Castration WORKS !

As I said I have seen the results with my own eyes!
Maybe you should do the research?

People who realize they have such a problem, are often considering suicide as a cure; castration in whatever form would be easier to accept, don't you think?

I agree that the current problem is directly caused by the media, but there is a problem nevertheless!
Whether you are concerned or not, is of no importance, G West.
At the moment society is concerned, and what I am suggesting is a possible solution, so do not dismiss it off hand.

If medical science took an interest they could create a theraphy by injection or pills , possibly female hormones that would counteract the excess testosterone.

It is all a matter of being able to approach one of these dirty little secrets that everyone is scared of bringing up!
In our society it is still not proper to question a mans masculinity, so everybody skirts the issue.

Alive

That attitude, if that’s the way you wish to approach it, pretty much applies – mutatis mutandis – to my feelings about your concerns.

So, let's see some evidence.

I'm not the slightest bit afraid of looking at whatever data you have - as long as you give me a chance to evaluate it and discover if there is any scientific and medical efficacy to what you're saying.

You're the first person who mentioned masculinity by the way.

It's pretty nearly a sure thing that somebody in the field of penology has done research on it.

I'd really like, though, before you spend a lot of trouble gathering up the information, if you'd check and see if recidivism is a big problem for serious or serial sexual offenders who have served ALL of their sentence - and that's usually the case for anyone considered a risk to re-offend.

They almost never get out early - as I'm sure you know from your study of these matters.

You show me that it's a huge problem - and not just something being hyped by the media and I'll look at whatever scientific and medical evidence you can muster up.

Otherwise, I'm just not interested. So, if there's any research to be done - it's up to you. This is your issue. Pursue it with vigor.

pee, or get off the pot!

I can see where other posters get frustrated with you: G west!

You contributed nothing to this tread, admit that you have not researched it, and still you set yourself up as the authority that I should try to convince!

Get real! If you wish to challenge my personal experiences, then at least bother to read up on it, OK?

To make this more clear: a male member of my extended family was in court for repeated, sexual misconduct, and violence, he had previous records of similar incidents as well as other criminal activities.

He admitted in court that he could not stop himself from committing violent crimes!

The judge sentenced him to castration, commenting that regular prison sentences had not helped matters.

Yes, this is way back, before bleeding hearts figured they knew better than judges.

The result was that this young man settled down, married and adopted kids.
He turned out to be a model husband and father, held a regular job and participated in community activities.

I have no idea how you would like me to document this incident?

I am acquainted with the stories about castrates, eunuchs etc. and generally these people are well liked in society. Are considered very trustworthy and easy going.

I do not have a scheme worked out, on how the penal system could or should reform, I offered my experiences here on Tyee and if some interested person wish to pick it up and go with the ball, be my guest!

As I stated before: I have a life!

a life is definitely

a life is definitely something that g does not have. he's here 24/7 and seems to feel that he garners some status through this website by arguing incessantly with people he doesn't know, so he's WRITING A BOOK ABOUT IT!!! i've never laughed so hard when i read that one. of course it will include his little EXPERIMENT, which he has somehow conned mr. beers into falling for. what a bloody joke.

Alive

So you think policy ought to be made and set upon the basis of how YOU feel?

I had a kind of a sense that was the case.

You might actually want to turn on CBC AM 690 this afternoon - they've been discussing this subject for the past two hours.

Too bad you missed it.

And you should think about getting that anger looked into.

Might lead you react a little violently at the wrong time. Something you might regret later.

Kind of like hockey players with a propensity for stick work, eh El!

Cheers.

red herrings

Did anyone ever call you a pompous ass?
Forever dropping hints and accusations to get off the subject, eh?
Anything but realizing that you are but one of many people on this site!
Your opinion is not that important, try to grasp that!
Now, get back to the subject or drop off

I'll stand on my record

You?

in that case you're lying

in that case you're lying down. and still making a fool of yourself. (and the editor, i might add)

it is a record allright

You stand on your record, do you have a choice?My record speaks for itself: I read the serious articles and scan the posts for the various reactions.
Frankly I skip the long ones, as I detest anyone who cannot come to the point in a few sentences.
I realize that you enjoy writing and must spend endless time searching for obscure sites to “verify” your opinions; just excuse me for not caring about pedantic ravings.
Should anything I come across, inspire me to comment I do so, (as briefly as possible.)
I try hard to make myself clear the first time out, but find that I may have to elaborate depending on the reactions.
My time is limited and I get upset when individuals waste my time with silly patter or insults going back and forth.
Basically we have agreed on most issues, but your overbearing attitude has turned me off before.
I use strong language to make it obvious that you cannot bully me around with your superior attitude, but I do not write in anger, despite your claim.
Now can you please address the issues at hand?

Why treat him different?

I don't see me treating anyone any different. They served their time, did what they needed to do to get straightened around. Needless to say, being as young as I am, no way in hell am I staying in a room, car, anything else alone with the person. I would still treat them with respect, considering he'd most likely learned his lesson. Deep counseling would do him justice for the most part. But then again, I was raped at the young age, so I guess I'd become to deal with the problems it brings along, but the better part of me has forgiven the asshole who did it. I understand what the one who was raped may have went through.

Arguing?

Over a suggestion of someone being castrated. Wow. Verge of topic on that. Anyway - I can agree with both points. Castration being a way to solve it. Or we could better learn in the manner Elliot has brought, that it is more of a guy getting off with violent ways. But what castrating a guy could do, maybe using him a test subject would do more justice? See what makes him tick, then put him in counseling for it. It's all kind of more along who is vouching for the behavior. He has to live with knowing he is a rapist. Why do any further destruction to him?

Arguing?

Over a suggestion of someone being castrated. Wow. Verge of topic on that. Anyway - I can agree with both points. Castration being a way to solve it. Or we could better learn in the manner Elliot has brought, that it is more of a guy getting off with violent ways. But what castrating a guy could do, maybe using him a test subject would do more justice? See what makes him tick, then put him in counseling for it. It's all kind of more along who is vouching for the behavior. He has to live with knowing he is a rapist. Why do any further destruction to him?

Where did I ever try to bully anyone?

As a matter of fact, re-reading what you've written, it's clear that is YOUR tactic.

I appreciate the fact you've underlined it so clearly. I've been observing it for quite a while.

It's nice that you and Elliot can share notes about how effective it is as a debate tactic. Have a seminar if you like.

Listening to cross-country check up yesterday afternoon would have been a better approach if you actually cared about this complex and fraught issue and weren't just interested in striking steel on flint and creating some very short-lived sparks.

I'll watch for your germane contributions the next time too.

One of the people they interviewed

Was a woman from Toronto who was the JANE DOE in one of the cases for which this current fellow was sent to jail for 20-odd years.

She had a very interesting take on the whole situation - and not once did she say that castration, chemical or otherwise, was a possible 'solution' to this problem.

Numerous commenters, and several of the experts interviewed, did mention the media frenzy that these cases generate.

Among other things.

But, since you're the expert, lets hear your take on the issue. If you're through yelling, that is.

Public debate is good

Since you supposedly read my previous posts, you already know my "take" on this issue!

It is not surprising that castration is not mentioned, it is off the radar for most people.

My point was to bring it to attention as a possible solution, but if you are the only person to read it, then I am wasting my time here.

I have nothing to add, if you have any more question, then re-read my posts

all he is attempting to do is goad you

alive said to GW,

Good reply alive, all he is attempting to do is goad you into saying more. All he is after is to build onto his novel. The dialogue itself means squat to him.

Sorry Alive, Did you miss this?

So, we're stuck with what we have. I'd like to know what the actual statistics are for fully discharged offenders (who are still on parole for the rest of their lives and must remain in contact with their parole officer) to re-offend.

One thing for sure, the current media-hyped atmosphere isn't helping these guys. I can imagine that such harassment would, over a period of time, even have a tendency to get some of these guys to submit to voluntary castration of their own accord. If they could find a doctor to do the procedure.

I understand your frustration - just don't agree with your solution.

But, if you can show me that this kind of recidivism is a huge problem, I'll consider it again.

Because I don't think you responded to it with anything other than a poignant personal anecdote. Which is fine, as far as it goes; but I don't think it's at all accurate to accuse me of dodging the issue.

DODGING!

This is typical of your posts, all you did was ask a bunch of questions; presenting them as if they had any validity!
That my friend is indeed dodging!
Good luck with your book,let us hope it keeps you too busy to waste everybody's time here.

about windbags goading anyone

Thanks Woody!

Do not worry that windbag is no match for me!

Anyone can write page after page saying nothing, as G does.
I pride myself on picking on subjects I happen to have some experience with, and then pass on my accumulated thought for all to peruse and consider.

There is virtue in knowing one's strenghts, or as the saying goes: avoid spreading yourself too thin!

alive

Is that what you call fair comment?

I think that advice about being spread a bit too thin may well be something you should pay a bit more attention to, my friend.

Simple Solution to Serial Rapist:

If the victims can be "unraped", the rapist is free to go.

But, like DUI, rape is entirely voluntary. So.....no mercy, if the above condition cannot be met.

Why is it that the legal system has no sympathy for the victims?

Rick W

That was the point that Jane Doe made on the CBC on Sunday. She says that in all the kafuffle about Callow and guys like him that the actual circumstances of the issue of violence against women is forgotten.

She feels, although I hate to speak for her, that the character of the crime is such that sexual assault is very often not even reported and that, as a result, there are 10s of thousands of victimized women out there just living with pain and shame and for whom the justice system is just a joke.

I don't know if that's true, but in her case, the Toronto police knew that a suspect was operating in the area where she lived and consciously failed to notify women in the area to be on guard – hoping he’d strike again and be caught. How cynical of women and their role can one be? It was after this failure on the part of the police that Jane Doe was sexually assaulted. She eventually sued the police for negligence.

In so many cases, sexual assault is just another one of many examples of a certain attitude of mind that some men still seem to accept is appropriate about women in general.

Last week there was an interesting illustration of this in the sports news.
Jason Spezza (Ottawa hockey player) managed to injure himself while he was doing some shopping for his personal needs.

Because this meant he'd miss a game or two with the Senators, the subject came up in the coach's next news conference.

The coach laughed about the circumstances and said that they'd been urging Spezza to 'get hooked up' so he wouldn't have to do his own shopping any more.

Pretty much sums up certain elements of the typical 'male' attitude towards women as a class and an object, don't you think?

As I wrote above, it's a very complex subject and there are no easy answers.

about violence and a cure

OK, let me pitch in here:
Violence is violence! no matter who the victim happens to be.
Aggressive behaviour is not acceptable in our society.
The victims are usually women, sometimes it has sexual overtones, sometimes it is simply aggression/violence.
What causes aggression?
a hormonal imbalance; too much testosterone happens in both sexes, and in either case it makes the subject likely to spontaneously "explode" into a violent act, (or lengthy profanity).
That was my reasoning for posting the suggestion that castration could solve the problem of what to do with people who cannot stop behaving in a violent manner.
How that might be implemented is not my business!
I hand out a suggestion, please take it at face value.
And by the way be thankful, if you do not suffer from a hormonal problem! It is worse that any addiction and it is not recognized as such.

Google

Since it seem too much effort for G West, i did a simple Google on: prisoners and testosterone.
No evidence eh?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1997/09/970927110900.htm

http://www.springerlink.com/content/k761j1u1418616q7/

http://www.springerlink.com/content/n2663754k0226718/

Alive

Oh but it is! And it is found in the sentences imposed on transgressors. The collective attitude of the legal system is that those who are raped "were asking for it". And DUI drivers who kill or maim are just "the boys blowin' off a little stream".

It's the "body language" of sentences that count in assessing the ethicality of the so-called "justice" system. Not the words found on the paper.

The "justice" system in this country has itself been judged -- and found wanting. Judges are merely lawyers who found their sinecures.

we cannot hang them all

Could not agree more!
We do not send a strong message to criminals, no argument there.
The USA fills it jails to overcapacity, and crime is worse than ever, so what to do?
I would suggest that decent jobs and training would keep many from "having" to steal.
For the violent crimes, refer to my previous posts

Alive

This is a large part of the problem. We are into our 3rd "lost generation" since WWII, what with this 'best of all worlds'. Kids today are -- ready for it? -- bored! The reason? Because they no longer serve a purpose. And they get plenty of 'body language' that tells them exactly that.

Kids need to be wanted
AND
want to be needed

We are all too rapidly providing them neither........

surplus generation?

Again we agree!
Going back to the offenders thing: just as we parents learned that some rules are not enforceable, so should society learn that putting people in jail for smoking pot, for instance, is self-defeating.
Let us concentrate on serious crimes!
and once again: if we can agree that hormonal imbalance causes violent behaviour, perhaps we ought to work on that aspect?
Merely saying that anything that is from 1930 is outdated is not sensible.
They solved a problem, and with todays technology there may be more humane methods to achieve the same result?
Guess that Geee West is searching for an opposing website?

Not at all alive

This is actually a useful discussion. Moreover, despite what you might think of me and my arrogance or the fact you think I'm spread too thin, I think the actual discussion of the sources of rage and violence - and the objectifying attitude of many men towards women is something that I had a role in initiating. Remember?

If you'd actually taken the time to read what I was posting and avoided your usual knee-jerk reaction to anyone who questions what you write, we might have arrived at this point a lot sooner. This isn’t the first time I’ve observed this behavior either. Seems a bit violent to me – at least that’s the vibe I took from your writing. You might want to go back and reconsider some of the things you wrote a little more carefully.

I still don't think hormonal treatment is going to have any appreciable effect on the magnitude and breadth of this pathology.

We need, as they have in Scandinavia and in Holland (among other countries) a completely new approach to penology.

The chances, however, of getting that from the law 'n order folks who brought us Stephen Harper are next to none, sadly.

an apology yet?

Geee thanks

This is about as close to an apology as anyone ever could expect from you!

Yes, eventually we can arrive at much the same conclusion.
Perhaps it is my fault for assuming all the ordinary rhetoric was not needed amongst people on this site?
I tend to see straight to the kernel of a problem, sort of go for the outside-the-box thinking.

When everybody declares a situation as unsolvable, that is how to approach it.

My suggestion, as I stated at the beginning will ruffle a lot of feathers; but it solves the dilemma of what to do, to give the habitual criminals a chance to fit into a regular life routine.............and is that not the purpose of this exchange?

Once more I am sorry if my style upsets anyone.
To be honest I have difficulties wasting my time on just repeating stock phrases to please those who need to be “stroked.”

And once more, how to implement such a “cure” is another problem and outside my so-called expertise, and that perhaps is we ought to discuss?

It wasn't meant to be an apology

You'll notice I direct my comments for you, to you, and not to someone else. I don't think your ideas are outside the box thinking at all but I do agree that the current analysis of the situation is a mess.

Finding ways to keep 'criminals' (by whatever definition one uses) in jail longer - especially jails funded to save money rather than address 'real' problems is absurd and will take this society even deeper into a morass none of us wants.

In the Maritimes, as an example, female offenders convicted of summary offences (and thereby sentenced to less than 2 years in Provincial gaols) are trading up for sentences of more than 2 years in the Federal system in order to get the help that's available there and not in provincial institutions.

We need a lot more serious research in these areas. I don't even have a problem with voluntary chemical or surgical treatment to help the kinds of people you're talking about. But, that being said, I think the nature of the problem (as pointed out above) is far more systemic, and runs a lot deeper in our culture than anything a few snips of a scalpel or some hormone treatment will remediate.

There we differ.

Good bye I've had enough

How fitting of this stories Title "A Problem From Hell" One could feel that this title was designed specifically for Gwest. It would appear that Gwest has influence or a strangle hold on this site .Not wanting to read, and or be drawn in by him or his other many Ad Hominem. Im removing myself from this site in all respects, it has been fun and enjoyable ,that is until, Garf the jerk came onto the scene. Please do log on to the following site, which has my favorite all time melody contrary to what GWest may think or say.

http://www.niehs.nih.gov/kids/lyrics/alouette.htm

good bye indeed

Tomorrow this tread will go into the archives, and Gee West can breathe a sigh of relief that his embarrasment will be hidden.

It is too bad that a positive comment had to be ridiculed, by those who do not take time to consider its possible merits!

Seems that a few here are so square that anything not "in" at the moment, must be old and useless.

At one time we listened to our elders and took advice from their experiences; now we make fun of our elders, if we even bother to recognize them as humans.

What positive comment was that

I see you still prefer to talk behind my back rather than address me directly.

As to elders, I have no idea how old you are and you have no idea of my age either.

I'd say that whole comment was nothing but a futher attempt to try and make your own good self feel better about being a hopeless curmudgeon.

If you can show me any time I've been 'personal' or abusive with you, I'll apologize. Otherwise, forget it. Because I can cite several examples of the opposite.

If you have nothing worthwhile to say and are more interested in criticizing your imaginary idea of who you are debating with, then I guess I'd have to say I'm just not interested.

On the basis of many of your other comments on other threads I probably agree with much of what you believe; but the way you express yourself, frankly, sucks. At any age.

Eye For An Eye, I Say!

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/03/14/death-penalty.html

alive

But.....what about the victims??!! The victims must be given a chance before the criminals!

Help

Rick W.
You are missing the point of this tread!
Certainly the victims represent another terrible situation.
However the article was about what to do with Rapist etc. so they can be trusted to live amongst us , and that is what I have tried to get across........ a possible solution!
and all I get is static!

tired of repeating myself G

Poor G. did I neglect you, by addressing others than you?
My age is of no importance at this instance, The "elders' comment has to do with the fact that the castration process referred to was happening a long time ago, and it was our elders who made that decision.
To spell it out: maybe we should listen to what our elders did in their time, because they did not screw up the planet the way we do!
I do not believe you have been abusive, my complaint about you has been spelled out several times by me, and a host of other posters; if you are too arrogant to recognize that there must be a reason why people despise you, then there is no hope, my friend.

Talk to whom you please

I thought this was somewhat scummy:

Considering I'm not the least embarrassed.

However, I think that anyone who resorts to that kind of thing as an ego boost might have a bit of a self-image problem.

But – I could be wrong. Hope we’ll see more eye-to-eye next time.