"We’ve clearly determined we need to do more on the environment." This quote from our Prime Minster is laughable, given the Conservatives recent environmental policies. How does one reconcile "clearly determined" with global warming policies that take effect in 2050?
It's all smoke and mirrors folks, whether Conservative or Liberal, the planet will burn before industry supported politicos do anything of meaning.

Environment issues before health, education or economy? Those institutions have massive public and private resources and infrastructures. At best the environmental issues would be fluff for votes. Kyoto addresses the symptoms of a much bigger problem. A made in Canada carbon reduction plan is even further down the food chain. How about the stress to society and individuals when we're told that job security doesn't exist anymore. How does that help community over individual. More planting the seeds of fear and that the individual is on his own in this world. Correct me if I'm wrong but that sounds like a recipe for collapse of society as we know it. Those able to insulate themselves in their gated communities, make laws to protect their stolen wealth, and the fear is perpetuated downward to keep the economic wheels turning. No, we have a few other issues to investigate before any environmental issues turn an election. When individuals remain in isolation, favouring their needs over the community we have a fundamental flaw. This flaw will need to addressed before sustainability can even be brought to the table. Everything else is knee jerk reaction to the disasters in the making. Buckle up and put your helmets on.

sorry folks, people do not vote on issues!
If they did we would not have the laughable governments we have been saddled with.
All that Harpo is doing is pretending that a new face will make a difference, while deep down his agenda is carved in stone.
Two faced is a mild description of such politicos.

Looked to me as if Ambrose was set up from the start. The PMO had already decided to give the oil patch what it wanted (just let us make a buck a decade more....two decades...then we can do something about climate...) so she couldn't say much in defence of the gvt's actions. When announcements were made Harper made them with Ambrose having to stand there like the women's auxiliary. So now she carries the can for the PMO's misreading of the whole issue, and Johnnie steps in.

It's almost as if Harper and company's thinking is that if it is an important issue and ministry, then better get a man in there.

Generally I've leaned toward the International Panel on Climate Change on this. I've long thought that if anyone thought that the tobacco industry was hard to deal with, wait till we try to take on the oil/auto/asphalt industry.

That's not an industry, it's a cartel.

Today is a great day for the Tories - from canada.com:

This is why Harper will win. I have always said that most Canadians do not align with Dion. While we are sympathetic to the environment and social issues, we are not socialists. The Liberals managed to win enough seats in the last election because they captured the centre-right urban/suburban vote. Many fiscal conservatives voted for the Liberals.

However, the Liberals made the choice to move to the left, and Mr. Dion's election confirmed this. Mr. Kahn is right - the Liberals do not represent free-enterprising, family oriented Canadians. In fact, he'd reduce our international presense to zilch. Tyee readers can argue with me all they want.

The Liberals represent urban dwellers and socially conscious voters. However, I believe the fear card will prove meaningless. People are no longer scared of Harper. There was no Boogie man behind the Conservative party. He has been honest, diligent, pragmatic and relatively responsible - whether you like his politics or not....

Today, I am very encouraged!!

macsasquatch:

we can't attack the oil patch. it would destroy the national unity of this country. we must be more creative. attacking the energy patch would be far more destructive than the NEP...

You see how deep the unawareness is? Socially conscious voters? So many are so deep into "what's in it for me" they can't even see a problem with what they have accepted as truth. You're right, there is no sense in Tyee readers debating you, they might as well ask you to breath underwater.

"the Liberals do not represent free-enterprising, family oriented Canadians."
So according to Capitalism we have family oriented Canadians not being represented by the Liberals. This would imply that the Liberals cater to non-family oriented Canadians. So who are these non-family oriented Canadians, people who dislike their Moms?

Clubofrome, how does one join the Dolphin Party?

I think the neoCons approach to the environment is perfectly mirrored in that little TV ad about the Boreal Forest. You know the one where the young lady in the red jacket stands in front of a back drop of Eastern Pine forest and says on the one hand this; on the other hand that...Blah. Blah, Blah and ends up saying 'It's all about Balance'

That's what pee wee and his clones believe and it's gonna ruin this country if he gets a majority government in the upcoming election.

The sad part is that Dion's not much better - we truly are in trouble.

From Dec.19/06:
http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/2006/200612/20061219.html

Environment Canada is forecasting mild temperatures for the week, meaning most Canadians east of Alberta will likely NOT experience a white Christmas.

Currently, the Conservative government sees this as an opportunity to re-brand its much-criticized inaction on climate change as environmentally progressive. They'll be the party to promise a "Green Christmas".

Sounds like a line from REAL Women
http://www.realwomenca.com/
and right out of the 19th century.

Suggestion:

Re -name the Federal LIEberals "The -sky -is- falling -Chicken -Little- meets -Chicken- sh!t party.

They always have been and show no indications of changing from being power hungry opportunists with no compasses. Whatever it takes!!!...they stand for everything and yet in the end absolutely nothing.

LIEberals = simply Glorified waffling NDP ers who will use the the pen of legislation as snake oil to cure what ails enough LIEberal cult believer/voters so the inmates can run the Natural Governing Parties Ottawa asylum again.

Wheat prices will be way down next year!
The arid wheat growing areas in the usa got a whole lot of snow and wheat futures are right down! So harper wont be waiting till after the harvest for sure!
Because farmers will be selling on the open market. the one where the price depends on how much rain fell in australia and the usa. the same market where buyer cartel can waitfor 6 months if need be (starving them out) to buy grain.
The NDP should seriously concider an environmental pact with the liberals and greens.
Drop a few candidates in areas where environmental liberals can win and in areas where the greens might do well but the ndp cannot win anyway.
Doesnt even need to be a pact. It can be unilateral.
But it will focus real attention on the issues.
Sea levels are rising half an inch every 4 years now.
what with tides and everything, it is pretty hard to measure rise in sea level but it was done in science magazine. Thats for the last 20 years or so and it is definitely way up from what went on before.
(They cannot give a year on year rise because 3 to 4 mm per year in something that changes by several meters twice a day is pretty hard to evaluate.
It is supposed to get much more dry in central canada so harper supporters are going to be hit pretty bad.
Hence the new (prince of waffle) spokesman on the environment

LIEberal/Green/ NDP coalition;

Best summarized as " we will add a fee/tax to this(and THAT..and THAT..and THAT too)"...and spend the accumulated funds W-I-S-E-L-Y ... ie cost effectively, target- directed, and in the Public's Best Interests.

Then in a nanosecond after the ink is dry stickhandle the $$$$'s into General Revenue...stir and re-direct into more special interest groups...ie Votes.

Why change a tried and true Canadian formula ?

This Kyoto/environment etc. issue is simply NEP II, a re -camoulflaged attack by EASTern power whores on the WEST's prosperity...if they can't own it..then tax it...or legislate it,.... etc. etc.

PS Question of the day...how would this all change if major amounts of OIL etc. were discovered in Quebec and Ontario ?

Hmmm.

BrianWhite
Where've ya bin Brian? The suggestion of a formal coalition between liberal Liberals, the NDP and the green Greens (not the conservative ones who should follow their former leader to where they all really belong) has been around here for some time.

But it has to be public, written down and binding - it can't be some nudge-nudge wink wink kind of thing like Elizabeth May was suggesting playfully in her little tête Ã* tête with Peter Mansbridge - and it has to happen soon before Jack realizes that he now has the hammer on Harper all on his lonesome. Those are strange bedfellows and that marriage of convenience won't last.

The Liberals would have to disavow their connections to dirty pols from BC and ethnic special interests (the same people who got the leadership for Dion) as well; and you can be sure Bay Street would have a cow and decide they really really really love Stephen Harper - despite his Income Trusts thing.

One other condition: First item of biz when they come to power is electoral reform (Proportional - that is).

I think your musing about wheat production and prices is interesting. But a little premature btw. The conjuction between winter conditions (up till the first week of January) and crop outcomes in the grain belt is a little too tentative for anyone who knows a lot about the prairies and the weather.

If you use the figures provided by the eco-frauds, Canada produces 2% of man made carbon dioxide. Total man made carbon dioxide represents only 3% of the carbon dioxide produced naturally.
So if Canada totally eliminated all of our man made carbon dioxide, the reduction to the total carbon dioxide produced on earth would only be reduced by 6/1000th of one percent.
Is it worth killing our economy for that?
If the environment is such a hot item to the Canadian electorate, then I guess Harper has to appear to be concerned, but once explained to Canadians in a thoughtful way, I am sure he can score points with voters.

http://www.oism.org/pproject/review.pdf

How about having a look at this document Ron and then telling us there's nothing to worry about. Pay particular attention to Figure 1.

And when you've looked at that - from a group which says it CO2 doesn't matter - but certainly acknowledges that it is increasing, you might be ready to look at this:

http://www.jri.org.uk/brief/climatechange.htm

And when you're done that Ronnie, let me know and I'll provide some more suggestions for your weekend reading. SO nice to deal with an open-minded expert!

hmmmm...let's translate that. This means a so-called "new" "improved" Harperized Clean Air Act. Visualize every bogus detergent ad you have ever seen. (After all, we are not dealing with a government here but with a public relations agency that uses our democratic system for the benefit of the small elitist private clientele they represent.)

And when Harper says "we need to do more on the environment"...let's see...what that really means (according to Harperspeak) is that it will take even lonnnnnger for his agency to cut greenhouse gases...hmmmm...let's see...how about around 2075 or so? "Course, he'll explain all the significant details after the election.

Just buy what he is selling now...(and mark your Con(servative) X on the ballot - that's, after all, what this is really all about)...and pay later.

What a deal! Especially for your children and grandchildren to inherit.

G; why send me to links that are only theories that support ( I think ) the eco-frauds contention that the sky is falling.
Recent proven experiments have proven that it's the sun the causes these variations in climate.
History tells us that when the Norsemen originally settled Greenland, they did so because it was a green land. They were able to grow crops and live well. Eventually it became covered with a larger ice cap and they left Greenland.
Now this same ice cap is receding, and yet the Antarctic ice cap is thickening.
Climate science has been politicised, by the liberal left, in order to advance their determined effort to ruin our standard of living. I am not buying the BS.

You didn't read them Ron. Check again. The first link is from guys who say it's no big deal - you can read, can't you?

The Ross Ice shelf is in imminent danger of separating from the Antarctic continent. You can look it up. More snow is perfectly consistent with current models by the way - but nice to see that you acknowledge the Greenland Glacier, the Icelandic Glacier and every other glacial system in the world is under threat.
I take it you're completely cognizant of the effects of increased fresh water melt and the mechanism that drives the Gulf Stream - you can read about it here - in a very conservative Rupert Murdock paper
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1602579,00.html
- the Times of London.
Quite simply Ron, and I don't mean this meanly - you don't know what you're talking about and neither does Stephen Harper. This is quite a shame, but not a big surprise.

I dunno....

I seem to recall Air Care will eventually be phased out. How come???...has it done its so-called enviro-job ie Local "Clean or Cleaner Air" ?

Simply read into this " environment " issue as some sort of same-old " keep the masses distracted " by the Politicians and Bureaucrats .

Where are the CURRENT enviro - taxes ....errr ECO- fees we already pay for Batteries, Tires, Paints etc...ACTUALLY going ? Let me guess...

The Federal LIEberals are using up all their horseshoes... lucky they got defeated last election...as if they had ACTUALLY retained power they would have to put up OR shut up on this faux -enviro facade.

Did they pick Dion as some "Teflon Dion" = environment saviour as a short attention span "can't loose" Vote - getter ?

If some enviro-initiative like Kyoto is not (i)a Global initiative with (ii) 100 % compliance THEN FORGET IT .

PS We don't need any more bogus Leftie religions...we all have ENOUGH and have HAD enough already...SVP.

I also suggest we begin our own language of protest...and use the same wily semantic facility to represent our interests as those in power often do for the elite few they represent eg. Harper's insistence that "the government of Canada" be referred to in governmental correspondence as "the new government" of Canada....and then firing the scientist who refused to do so.

From now on I will refer to our provincial and federal governments as agencies. You can decide for yourself what that makes Harper and Campbell.

I will continue to do so until the actions of government parallel the true meaning of governance...and thus do its true meaning justice by representing and honouring the interests of those who elected them... the citizens of this province... and of this country.

G West:

Thanks for the link/s ( usual TYEE " manners" )

However, seems to me the "oism"/pproject link is contradicting your views...if one reads the Abstract at the start and the Discussion at the end.

Not at all. Haven't you read what I posted for Ronnie? I purposely sent one reference that he couldn't just slam as being from a bunch of 'lefties' - just so he'd see that even the skeptics aren't arguing the point about increased CO2. That paper is 'marginal' science of course and exactly the kind of thing Ronnie would like to use to support his blinkered views. But one simply can't support the contention that CO2 concentrations are increasing at an extraordinary rate. Of course his attitude that nothing else matters except what the consequences are for his own little crap game aren't worth even countering.

Anyway, you'll figure it out.

Excellent point Lynn. It makes the connection between the government in both Victoria and Ottawa and whom they are actually working for. I like to think of them as eunuchs who guard the treasury of the palace and make sure normal mortals don't get too close to the real stuff - they sure aren't OUR servants.
Eunuch agents of the Plutocracy.

Two steps back should read: But one simply can't support the contention that CO2 concentrations are not increasing at an extraordinary rate.

-apologies to the Spelling & Grammar Police.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa

G West:

Again, the point is this is a Ping Pong ball of "theories" on either side...

IF ....and I repeat " IF" there was a global consensus and a global initiative to reduce those so-called man - made causes that contribute to global warming...then a big qualified " maybe ".

I mentioned this in a past TYEE post a few months back....weather is a very unpredictable " event " , and I saw a documentary whereby two scientists applied a mathematical theory to predict weather based on a chaos model...changing all sorts of variables and concluded a minor "this" can create a major" that" and bypass what OTHER models may have suggested.

I myself maintain a healthy skepticism re the so-called Experts...they can create all sorts of fear-mongering and get nervous Politicians to cut cheques for grants and all sorts of future studies etc. etc. That is its' own form of big business, along with the enviro-lobby groups.

Yeah..... any High School science student can be shown that burning "X" fossil fuel can create Carbon Dioxide...so ???

"If you use the figures provided by the eco-frauds, Canada produces 2% of man made carbon dioxide."
IMAC, are you referring to the Exxon sponsored front groups, such as the Fraser Institute, that pay scientists to write reports that try to convince the public that climate change is the natural course of our planet?
They may have suckered you, however the majority of us have woken up to their BS. Rather then create a new sustainable economy, you want to carry on with the status quo and let the planet burn. I hope Exxon gives you a well deserved noogie.

That description works for me as well, G. ;-)

It further delineates those who out of sheer weakness of character are flattered by the mere proximity to power, and having no innate or genuine source within themselves... they devotedly flit about its false gods, drawn like moths to a flame, into unquestioning service for the plutocracy.

The story asks the question re: will the environment be an election issue?

With Elizabeth entering the fray in a very considerable way, and if she is allowed into the Campaign Debate, I think it will.

Will Harper and Layton come up with a credible plan? Or will it be more Liberal all talk and no action?

Can hardly wait!

I'd just like to see anyone (except Tim Ball) rebut Al Gore.............

PS
And Jared Diamond's "Collapse"

RickW - who is Jared Diamond. I know that name from somewhere..

Okay, so you want to keep up the pretense that something is actually happening here...that change is afoot?

A better question:

Will the environment be an actual "governing" issue?

For any of the parties?

( BTW, Elizabeth May voted for Mulroney as our most environmental prime minister. What does that tell you? She is the leader of an environmental party at the direst, most critical of environmental times. And she voted for Mulroney. A PM who subversively co-opted and neutralized the environmental movement into the service of his corporate friends.

May fell for it. Despite what she now says, the fact that she overlooked so much and ignored so much speaks volumes.)

I dunno, but I'm tired of "the pretend game" going on by all parties at all levels.

I think she knows the Mulroney vote for that Corporate Knights bun toss was a big mistake Lynn. She was backing and filling pretty rapidly when Mansbridge talked to her recently. I don't think you can ignore mistakes like that.

One of the things that constantly amazes me in the discussion of climate change is the absence of any discussion of the role that high altitude dispersal of particulate matter aka chemtrails plays in both weather changes and increasing rates of resipratory illness.

All governments are complicit in the cover up of what is being done to the atmosphere. I advise watching all three parts of the Clifford Carnicom video called "Aerosol Crimes" which includes the tie in with HAARP.

How much you and I drive is beside the point with this military operation going on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fOv0vvGGbM&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjo1iiw2Ntg&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZhLUDpgV1U&mode=related&search=

With all the talk of a left wing enviro coalition between the NDP, Liberals and Greens, in order to defeat the scary Conservatives, I see an opportunity for my Cons to win, again. The environment issue is a softball for us to use as a divisive factor that will help us to a majority, by splitting the opposition, whereas they find this enviro thing as their only hope of staving off the evil, scary conservative agenda, when in fact the enviro subject is so F'ed up, that any fool could drive a truck through the rhetoric.
So, bring it on eco-frauds, we are ready for you. Perhaps you should have taken on issues that actually help Canadians improve their lives, like I am.
I can't believe it became as easy as it is for us Con's to take over Canada, with a view of cutting out the BS that has plagued us for the last 20 years.
Go for it Lib's, we are hunkered down and prepared to defeat you with your own B.S..

I still haven't seen a single example Ron. I think you're the fraud dude.

I believe green will be the biggest issue and one of the biggest vote-deciders in the next election. If you doubt me, just ask Elizabeth May who scored 25 per cent in a by-election last month. That's up from 5 per cent in the last election, and it wasn't the green policy on law and order that nabbed the votes.

"So, bring it on eco-frauds, we are ready for you. Perhaps you should have taken on issues that actually help Canadians improve their lives, like I am."
Like what, abolishing the Wheat Board or negotiating the Security and Prosperity Partnership(NAFTA Plus)? Better yet, maybe it's the phony child care program or the continued nonsense of how we are helping the people of Afghanistan.
You have some weird methods for improving lives. A lot of Yakkity Yak, but not much on track.

Not sure if mentioned, but check out Coynes article in the TYEE'S " REPORTED ELSEWHERE " column 10th item down....ie " Why the environment won't be an election issue ".

GM introduced a new hybrid at the Detroit auto show which will get 40 miles per charge. It won't be on the market for 2-3 years, but it looks like they now understand that consumers are serious about electric vehicles. Now if they would only design in some way the vehicle could be charged by solar, there's be less reason for war in the ME.
http://www.ndtvprofit.com/homepage/news.asp?id=282535

Of course, that still leaves the pollution from air traffic and chemtrails to worry about.

I have to agree with alive's cynicism here.

Think about how many parties or gatherings you were at over the break, and how many times global warming came up. A few people rambled on about Al Gore's movie.

However, these people who had their eye's opened by "An Inconvienant Truth" are the same ones who will again vote for Harper and Campbell. They drive in their 8 cylinder SUVs because they need the horsepower (even though they never go over 120km per hour). They are also the first ones to adovacate the cutting down of large trees in the neighborhood "just in case" they collapse in the next windstorm.

All the while, Grumpy is formulating his next attack on Skytrain and how bad Bombardier has been to the environment.

Crazy stuff, yes.... but the majority does not care about the environment until it hits them directly in the pocket book.

Hmmmm, I cannot wait for the book, "Global Warming: How to Profit from Climate Change".

Mopled:

Thanks for the reminde about those mysterious Chem Trails. Your links didn't work for me. But these links to the same video did work fine. Thanks again.

Try these links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fOv0vvGGbM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjo1iiw2Ntg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZhLUDpgV1U

No...actually the Majority of the Public is rather tired of Gov'ts catering to fear -mongering, and subsequent knee -jerk responses of increasing taxes( that does nothing) and drafting more legislation ( that often does nothing)....etc. etc.

Call it the Great Awakening and looooonnnnng overdue.

That's why the NDP is toast, why the Greens will be an anomaly like the Rhinoceros party, except that the Rhino's chose to fold, versus pushed out the door.

No more B.S. , either sh!t or get off the pot...that's what many are apparently failing to see or in sheer denial of.

IAMC -- you should see what Doug Sanders says about "your Cons" in yesterday's Globe and Mail:

Neocons sing their own swan song!
DOUG SAUNDERS

LONDON -- As we lug that big pile of end-of-year obituaries into the blue box, I'd like to ask whether we ought to be shedding a tear over a casualty that was largely overlooked -- the surprising death of an entire system of thought ... Et cetera, et freakin' joyful cetera!

BC MARY Unfortunately the article has moved to subscription. I wouldn't count the Neocons out just yet. We still have to get through the possible attack on Iran they've been planning.

Back to the environment...results of the Globe's Poll for today

It's been unseasonably warm in Canada this week. What do you think is going on?

Global waming caused by man

12625 votes (43%) 12625 votes

Global warming, natural causes

9069 votes (31%) 9069 votes

Nothing, it's just nice weather

We may disagree often but that's a good link, Maestro...actually a link to a comment, not to a Coyne article, but it makes some interesting points.

Especially this:

In other words it's all about effectively advertising the environmental goods (in order to win the election)... and not at all about actually delivering them in any shape or form. (governance) The consolation and taming of the public through persuasive marketing strategy. A buy and sell culture has made this such an easy political ploy to pull now..it's how we live our lives. We buy anything.

That's why Elizabeth May is accepted as a green leader, despite some serious alliances when she thought no one was really watching ( now back-pedaling fast midst the glaring lights of the public eye).

It's why Layton is still accepted despite his foolish compromising with Harper's Clean Air Act...now once again he is in cahoots over the new improved revised edition. He shouldn't go near Harper with a ten foot pole of good intentions. Sail your own ship, Mr. Layton. When will the NDP stop co-operating so nicely with those so willing to betray this country?

Then there's Dion... but he comes with ominous attachments like The Liberal Party itself, not to mention Marissen and company. Seems these public relations magis have journeyed eastward once again, trailing behind a new star this time, same stable, same room service.

I think this country is in serious trouble.

Layton, May, Dion...my feeling is that any one of them would be better than Harper... but not that much better...which is the real tragedy.

And so typified, Lynn, I think, by that little fed gov’t. ad on 'the Boreal Forest' and finding the middle way.

That's what the conmen are selling - the idea that we can have our cake and eat it too. That we need to recognize the environment, like saying hello to an old acquaintance at a cocktail party, and then ignoring them for the rest of the evening while we play with our new friends.

Layton is nuts to enable this subterfuge. He should back away from Harper as if the conman had a bad cold.

Dion needs, by the same token, to look very closely at the compromises he made and the 'friends' who helped get the tarnished prize that lifelong Liberals still seem to think means something.

Elizabeth May - well, when she stops defending Brian and admits 'that' was a faux pas of gargantuan proportions I might be willing to listen to something she might be thinking. Until then, she's on her own.

Still, Harper is the worst of a very bad bunch - and the most dangerous.

maestro:

Unfortunately, the only parties we could rely on to actually DO have never been elected to federal government. The two that have "cornered the market" on government have demonstrated consistently they'd rather usurp the pot, and remain constipated, at least as far as the people are concerned. But they DO like to hemorrage money to their friends......

In reference to the general case of the natural world, furthermore, I notice none of the newly green members of the New Canadian Government has had the Chutzpah to mention that they have failed to sign and endorse an international treaty that would have placed a moratorium on bottom dragging for fish as a way to try and give the undersea environment a chance of not completely succumbing to the evils of over-fishing.

I wonder exactly what pee wee will tout as the cornerstone of his environmental activism.

Margaret Atwood mentioned that treaty lapse during an interview by Eleanor Wachtel broadcast this afternoon. She had one of the best lines...that the govenment had failed to notice that "the economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the environment."

I'm glad someone noticed. The complicity of the press (in fact the positive fawning of CBC TV news) toward these neocon thugs is quite incredible.

CBC does that for every government...that's who controls their funding afterall. It has ever been thus.

mopled
I think it's been far more blatant with this 'minority' government. The neocon alliance between Canwest and the Aspers (which is actually kind of strange because Izzy Asper was always a Liberal) seems to have spooked Rabinovitch to a degree that wasn't apparent in previous instances.

Their love affair with the Armed Forces and the Afghanistan adventure, served with huge doses of Tim Horton's coffee and strong dollops of Don Cherry's hockey porn, is particularly offensive.

Maybe Bev Oda scares them. Actually, I think they know what Harper will likely do if he ever forms a majority Government. I'll miss the CBC...
You must remember those Joni Mitchell lines:

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got til it's gone
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot

Gwest wrote

Half the time it is not even paradise. Look at some of those traffic medians. Concrete, Concrete, Concete, when they could just allow grass to grow.

Wait, that can't happen.... it would need to be cut by a gas mower in case the grass grew too long.

Everyone hears the message. However, few people think about it.

Now to get back to Global news coverage of people mourning the loss of a few trees in Stanley Park while the rest of the Province's trees turn bright red.

Awww, c,mon Lynn, I'm sure deep down we are all on the same page.

However, this is part of a classic political formula. The current topic is(ENVELOPE please..... drum roll, fill in the blank = ta dah "E-N-V-I-R-O-N-M-E-N-T ) .

Before that it was Gay marriage. See... all fixed via legislation , right?

Before that it was Gun laws. See, all fixed via legislation, right ?

Let's see, Prime Minister for a day...."I will provide rebates(?) to those that buy/lease Hybrid vehicles. No, make that also include tax deductions(?).

" I will tax all fossil fuels at the rate of X cents per litre via a " Can-Kyoto tax" and will use the accumulated funds towards initiatives(?) that will help reduce the impact(?) of Global Warming(THE Poli-Buzz word these days)".

Etc. Etc.

Thus one has said everything and yet nothing, and will still acquire a lot of votes( mostly kneejerk Urbanites)....using the saaaame olllld formula.

How to join the Dolphin Party: First never, ever vote for a mainstream party ever again. That includes the so called big three. (Two in the US) Give up consumerism and start protecting the habitat that gave birth to all life, "The Sea." Eventually we may have to take up arms to protect the oceans and all of the creatures in it. You must be prepared to die for this cause. Apparently we are all going to anyway, so what the hell! Make your stand now!

Lastly, "Do not worship false idols!" The spirit of the Dolphin is your only religion. To laugh, sing, play and dance, followed by having sex is to be at peace with nature and the Dolphins. You work together to gather food and there is safety and protection within the Dolphin community. Remember no Dolphin is perfect. No one is immune to temptation. While the lure of Sea World and Hollywood can be strong, we remind you that these places are not for true Dolphins. The back alleys and seedy tourist pools are filled with the herring addicted strays and Dolphins who have lost their way, caught with the vision of stars in their eyes! Don't let this happen to you. The Dolphin party welcomes all life forms. Even the Dolphins natural enemy, those radical pro life zealots are welcome if they see the error of their ways! Just close your eyes and click your heels together three times, while thinking of the beauty of an open ocean teaming with life..... You are now a party member!

Actually, Maestro I don't disagree with you, it is all about a classical political formula...right down to as you said:

That's exactly how it operates....and has always operated....except that this time 'round there is no more play on the rope. So now we have to finally confront that there is little time left to act...and yet act we must. And that if we don't figure this out and change the system, and the accountability of the system to its citizens... might as well fold up the gameboard (for mankind at least).

Putting it in terms neo-cons understand.... that means no more customers left to buy stuff, no more soldiers left to die for oil pipelines, no one left to build ski chalets... or golf courses, no one to tie neo-con shoelaces or carry golfbags. Not to mention those trivial things like no more farms... or farmers, no edible food, no water worth drinking.

No air worth breathing.

No more no more.

By Gawd, no more neo-cons. (Maybe there is a method to this madness, after all). ;-)

Frank made a comment on another thread that fits here - with which I very much agree:

There is no real evolution through political structures. It just looks like change but it is really all about protecting the power structure itself, the holy status quo...about entrenching it at any cost.

It makes you wonder about man's so-called evolution as well? Have we really evolved?

Enough at least to save ourselves from ourselves?

And just how are we going to go about that?

Meanwhile the Harperites toil and boil every precious moment away to get GW to like us, to reallly, reallly like us.

Dophin Party

Thanks for that clubofrome.

I was emailing one of your ministers (Frank) the other day with good wishes for the new year. If you have any openings let me know

You're Welcome!

Frank is a peach! Rules for the Dolphin Party are adaptable and can change from day to day to meet challenges. We may one day want to support the NDP again. Or a retooled Green Party. The idea is for open mindedness and freedom to vote your conscience in the house. The Dolphin, a symbol of what life could be like, should we choose to protect the earth and our finer inventions such as the arts. Exploration and discovery and then celebration of diversity.... is where our strength lies. Openings? Hell yes! Pick your portfolio! Next step.....Membership Drive!