You know, Nana, I do remember that statement from Cellucci, I'd forgotten about it but you post brought it back.

Um, I'm not sure this is today's big story...it's more like last year's isn't it?

Iraq. Violence. Yawn.

Give me some new perspective on it. About a third of your article quotes the Guardian.

You've also made a fairly contradictory statement about Ignatieff.

is followed closely by:

That last sentence contradicts the first.

This, from the Washington Post today, is very interesting:

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, November 14, 2006; A29

After years of denials, the CIA has formally acknowledged the existence of two classified documents governing aggressive interrogation and detention policies for terrorism suspects, according to the American Civil Liberties Union.

But CIA lawyers say the documents -- memos from President Bush and the Justice Department -- are still so sensitive that no portion can be released to the public.

The disclosures by the CIA general counsel's office came in a letter Friday to attorneys for the ACLU. The group had filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in New York two years ago under the Freedom of Information Act, seeking records related to U.S. interrogation and detention policies.

The lawsuit has resulted in the release of more than 100,000 pages of documents, including some that revealed internal debates over the policies governing prisoners held at the military detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Many other records have not been released and, in some cases, their existence has been revealed only in media reports.

Friday's letter from John L. McPherson, the CIA's associate general counsel, lists two documents that pertain to the ACLU's records request.

The ACLU describes the first as a "directive" signed by Bush governing CIA interrogation methods or allowing the agency to set up detention facilities outside the United States. McPherson describes it as a "memorandum." In September, Bush confirmed the existence of secret CIA prisons and transferred 14 remaining terrorism suspects from them to Guantanamo Bay.

The second document is an August 2002 legal memo from the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel to the CIA general counsel. The ACLU describes it as "specifying interrogation methods that the CIA may use against top al-Qaeda members." (This document is separate from another widely publicized Justice memo, also issued in August 2002, that narrowed the definition of torture. The Justice Department has since rescinded the latter.)

The ACLU relied on media reports to identify and describe the two documents, but the CIA and other agencies had not previously confirmed their existence. McPherson wrote that neither document can be released to the public for reasons of security and attorney-client privilege.

"The documents are withheld in their entirety because there is no meaningful non-exempt information that can be reasonably segregated from the exempt information," McPherson wrote. A spokesman for the CIA declined to comment yesterday.

Amrit Singh, one of the ACLU's attorneys on the case, said the disclosures may make it easier for the group to argue in favor of releasing the documents.

"For more than three years, they've refused to even confirm or deny the existence of these records," Singh said, referring to the group's initial document request in October 2003. "The fact that they're now choosing to do so confirms that their position was unjustified from the start. . . . Now we can begin to actually litigate the release of these documents."

Who says America doesn't torture, or facilitate it?

How Brutal this war is and the question is - How long will it go on? You can imagine how many families have lost love ones, relations, etc. I think we are so lucky to live in Canada.

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/

The stealing has been outrageous.

cont'd
What did Stuart Bowen know about missing $9 billion before the November 2004 election and when did he know it?

Bowen is married to Laura Bush's best friend and served on the staff of then-Governor Bush, as Counsel to the 2000 Bush-Cheney transition team, and as Deputy Assistant to the President. He has also been a partner in the Washington office of Patton Boggs. He received his law degree from the St. Mary's School of Law in San Antonio, an institution that has pumped out a number of right-wing GOP political operatives, including Texas Senator John Cornyn.

Although Bowen has been cited by Democratic Senate and House members as a supporter-turned-critic of Bush administration waste in Iraq, Congress has a duty to ask him the age old Washington question. After Bowen took over as Inspector General on October 29, 2004, what did he know about the missing $9 billion and when did he know it. If Bowen knew about the missing $9 billion before Election Day -- November 2, 2004 -- why did he not make the information known then? Or was he named by his friend Bush to ensure that no one in the CPA spoke about the stolen billions -- serving as a last minute "October Surprise" that could have benefited the Kerry campaign?

***

How do you 'misplace' $9 Billion?

Hey, Dov Zackheim misplaced 1 TRILLION at the Pentagon. Remember that when questioned about pt by a House Committee on Sept 10, 2001, both he and Rumsfeld make great wide eyes and said, 'Gee, I don't know'?

But here is something really juicy...an FBI reference to an Executive Orderauthorizing torture.
http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_item&itemid=1348&x=x

Sorry, that was 3 Trillion. How and where do you hide 3 trillion is my question?

More on torture memos
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/13/AR2006111301221.html

Sorry to steal your thunder Nana - it's poster up thread here 20 hours. Great minds think alike I guess.

'posted' above, not 'poster' - sorry

I guess if the kidnapping was yet another example of the impossibly, never ending, hopeless, quagmire, un wiinable, ill fated, mean spirited, ill conceived, evil, Imperialistic, fanatical religious, Zionist persecution of the poor by the Satan America, then the release of these same hostages, can be viewed by some with an entire different view!. Maybe you will pressure the CRTC to LET you watch El Jazeera.

And the chaos in Iraq will continue until the US is defeated there. Likewise, it will continue to escalate in Afghanistan until such as "we" are defeated there.

Which gives me the opportunity to use a quote which I got originally from Lynn"

JAMES CONNOLLY in the Glasgow Forward, August 15, 1914.

I buy that in the case of all these post WW2 wars of imperialism, fought by the US Empire, with us now buried deep to the hilt up its fascist backside.

Screw the class system. Screw Capitalism. Here is where the war needs to be fought by our own.

In order for the US to be defeated, someone needs to win Coyote.
I won't bother asking you who you think that should be. That's your business. I know if pressured you would say something like 'all of mankind' or some other deceptive BS. It's all politics now. Everything has been corrupted by politics. As it always has been. Science has been corrupted by politics forever. Everything has.
I know that you are old and not likely to really care what happens later, as I am not. 1914 was a long time ago. That's when Lumberjacks were fearless, northern, kickass dudes, who you could fend for themselves , yet now, they like to where panties and bras. See Monty Python. We are living back in the sixties.

IAMC:

First a little definition of 'the US'.

If you mean the general populus of the United States, that still believes that their Constitution is being respected by those 'in power' in thier government...then they are already defeated.

If you mean the new preatorian guard, that is currently masquerading as 'Homeland Security' then they have yet to be defeated. Not unilke their classical counterpart they will use all the tricks of the trade to ensure that 'they win' - regardless of the real outcome of any war...

Geez murdock, you sure confirmed my assertion that Lib's have no answer except criticisms. I don't expect a straight answer from any of you typical lib's on this site thetyee.ca.
But I do hope for some original thought rather than singing from the socialist songbook.

Ron
Are you saying that your hero George Jr didn't authorize torture?

If you think murdock is a lefty you are realllly out of touch.

The point is that your heroes are all liars and their apologists are worse because they know they are liars and ignore it.

The only person doing an aria around here is you.

Alchi; You are torture to me. I wouldn't want to put a pair of your panties over my face. I guess I should have said " undergarments " That would be torture to me. What do you mean by the word torture. Listening to every George Bush Saturday audio press releases every week? Is there any evidence of the kind of torture inflicted on Americans being inflicted in Gitmo or Abu? NO. The 400 detainees in Club Gitmo have 1000 American lawyers, and the prisoners are all getting fat.
Michael Moore tortures me. I am poor too. I can't get my Ferrari registered in California, because they are torturing me.

Ted Koppel just said, on the Jon Stewart program, that 35 years ago Shrub went to the Texas Air National Guard so he could stay out of Vietnam, and today he went to Vietnam so he can stay out of Washington.

Thank God George Bush didn't get himself killed in Vietnam. Kerry went there. Shot himself in the foot and got purple because of it.
Meanwhile George got himself two consecutive Presidential mandates.
They were not easy terms of power.
To try to balance judaeo christian nuances into a largely godless feminized world, while at the same time being stuck with Columbine, 911 and Katrina, while at the same time trying to win a war on terrorism, I take delight, that it's all George Bushies fault.
If he can take responsibility, George will of course, to the shared responsibility of previous administrations [ Bill ] and there must be deals being made between both sides of the equation.
We all know that the American forum is the most important.

Baloney. You speak only for yourself. I now see even your hero Rush is tripping all over himself in embarrassment at having supported for political reasons people even he knew were criminally incompetent.

When will you wake up Ron?

Chew their legs off fella, what happened to your predictions?

IAMC:

What criticism?

I have pointed out my observation that the 'ordinary' american is as divided on the governance issue as the polls showed in the past Presidential election and the precarious balancing act that is the Congress of the US today. 50-50.

There are at least half of the US general populace that do not want the current situation to be 'in place' in the tyranny that has become the Bush Presidency.

This was all foretold by Ike in his farewell address.

IAMC, I suspect that it may be YOU whom has been brainwashed by the mass media into accepting the 'eternal now' of the grand power of the USofA.

So far YOU have been the one playing from a song-book (written in the southern US), that has no resonance here in Canada.

At one time our American cousins were all about Liberty and Freedom. Since the end of their 'civil war' the tale has slowly morphed into what we see today.

More about 'bread and circuses' I suspect.

A thought occurs,

"IAMC, how much television do you watch on a daily basis?"

If your answer is in excess of 20 minutes then you may want to take up reading more. Like biographies, of those you like, dislike, want to emulate and never want to be like.

Your latest postings are more of the sort of behaviour and speech of someone you may not want to be like, I suspect.

Of course good advise and bad rubbish all look the same, it takes action to prove the good from the bad.

So far the actions seen from the Bush Presidencies, have not been very good.

Perhaps someone you may not want to emulate - or worship - any more?

Back to the eternal now...

IAMC switches back on the TV and his world of FOX news and CNN.

sigh